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Old 06-05-2013, 06:24 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic View Post
That was an extremely limp swing and miss at the ball. I figured this crowd is smart enough to know the difference between a 1st quarter lead and a late 4th quarter lead.

Are you actually saying a 1st quarter lead is the same thing as a late 4th quarter lead?
Ah i see, move the goal posts. Points count equally in the 1st as they do in the 4th you dolt. You see, in a game, both teams accumulate points throughout the entirety of the game. Any points given up in the first, second, or third quarters diminish a lead or extend a deficit just as they do in the 4th.

If champ doesn't give up the lead in 1st, Moore probably doesn't have the opportunity to give up the lead in the 4th. Both plays contributed to the loss of the GAME and the LEAD.
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Old 06-05-2013, 06:25 PM   #52
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The way you contort yourself in order to be a Champ apologist is sad.
I don't even like champ that much. The way you ignore the fact we lost the lead in the 4th on one play is sad.

If champ didnt have those gaffes would it have been easier? Would moore have been put in that position? Would they be up multiple scores? Maybe on all 3 questions. Then again ravens could've scored 50 points. That's all hypothetical. Reality and the factual events of the game did put Moore in that position and as a pro I expect a player to know what to do.

Again nowhere am I saying Moore lost the game. Simply stating that having a lead late in the 4th before the play started, then having the score tied after that play ends = losing the ****ing lead. It's common sense when looking at numbers. 35-28 means lead. 35-35 means no lead. It's hilarious you actually think a 1st quarter lead is the same thing as a 4th quarter lead. It ain't how you start it's how you finish.
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Old 06-05-2013, 06:28 PM   #53
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Ah i see, move the goal posts. Points count equally in the 1st as they do in the 4th you dolt. You see, in a game, both teams accumulate points throughout the entirety of the game. Any points given up in the first, second, or third quarters diminish a lead or extend a deficit just as they do in the 4th.

If champ doesn't give up the lead in 1st, Moore probably doesn't have the opportunity to give up the lead in the 4th. Both plays contributed to the loss of the GAME and the LEAD.
Its not how you start it's how you finish. The entire 2011 season proves that. Ok I'm done here. Where's the gong show boing when you need it.

It's basic knowledge that a 1st and 4th quarter lead are 2 totally different things.

The 35-28 lead exists with champs **** ups. It does not exist with moores play. Several things led up to Moore being put in position to make his play and protect the lead. Being put in that position what happened.

Last edited by Drunken.Broncoholic; 06-05-2013 at 06:37 PM..
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Old 06-05-2013, 06:43 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by OrangeSe7en View Post
The way you contort yourself in order to be a Champ apologist is sad.
We should cut Champ and give Moore a raise.
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Old 06-05-2013, 06:48 PM   #55
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We should cut Champ and give Moore a raise.
I don't see how people deny the fact the lead was lost on that play. Or that somehow a 4th quarter lead is the same as a 1st quarter lead. Ill put it like this for them.

Did the broncos have the lead before moores play? 35-28 would certainly say so. Now did they have the lead after that play? 35-35 doesn't say so. That's it that's all.

Now lets watch how many mistake the word "lead" with "game" in this post.

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Old 06-05-2013, 06:51 PM   #56
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We should cut Champ and give Moore a raise.
I think everyone in this thread is dealing with extremes.

Perhaps its the tone set by the label "superstar", which is clearly inaccurate.

Regardless, Moore had a solid season despite the worst play I've ever seen, and Champ had a very good one up until that game as well.

Simple solution:
1. Improve CB depth all over field.
2. Give help over the top.

1. is already taken care of. Now we need to bail out the greatest Bronco post Elway in the deep ball game and we're coverage sound across the board.
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Old 06-05-2013, 06:53 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic View Post
I don't see how people deny the fact the lead was lost on that play. Or that somehow a 4th quarter lead is the same as a 1st quarter lead. Ill put it like this for them.

Did the broncos have the lead before moores play? 35-28 would certainly say so. Now did they have the lead after that play? 35-35 doesn't say so. That's it that's all.
I get what you are saying 100% man. Denver overcame every mistake prior to that play. That mistake cost Denver the game period.
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Old 06-05-2013, 06:55 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by TheReverend View Post
I think everyone in this thread is dealing with extremes.

Perhaps its the tone set by the label "superstar", which is clearly inaccurate.

Regardless, Moore had a solid season despite the worst play I've ever seen, and Champ had a very good one up until that game as well.

Simple solution:
1. Improve CB depth all over field.
2. Give help over the top.

1. is already taken care of. Now we need to bail out the greatest Bronco post Elway in the deep ball game and we're coverage sound across the board.
I agree. Not much more to add to this post.
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Old 06-05-2013, 07:05 PM   #59
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I agree. Not much more to add to this post.
Yep I agree too.
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Old 06-05-2013, 07:44 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic View Post
Its not how you start it's how you finish. The entire 2011 season proves that. Ok I'm done here. Where's the gong show boing when you need it.

It's basic knowledge that a 1st and 4th quarter lead are 2 totally different things.

The 35-28 lead exists with champs **** ups. It does not exist with moores play. Several things led up to Moore being put in position to make his play and protect the lead. Being put in that position what happened.
The lead existed after Champs dick ups and Manning's **** ups because the team overcame them. They still contributed to the final score equally.

The difference is the team was not able to overcome Moore's mistake. It was still a 7 point swing just as Manning's pick-6 was and just as each TD champ gave up was.

This is not an excuse for Moore. The point is, the team as a whole was not able to overcome the team's mistakes as a whole.
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Old 06-05-2013, 08:00 PM   #61
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The point is, the team as a whole was not able to overcome the team's mistakes as a whole.
This. It wasn't solely Champ's, Moore's, Manning's, Fox's, the inability to close offensively, the lack of running game, the refs' and their slanted calls all game. It was all of those things plus. Game sucked. Offseason has been promising and the team looks loaded. We should probably move on.

Hopefully the sting of that loss is this team's catalyst for a title run. Then we can look back on that #### game like we do the Jacksonville game.
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Old 06-05-2013, 08:19 PM   #62
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Somewhere Brian Griese is laughing maniacally at this thread.
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Old 06-05-2013, 08:26 PM   #63
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This is not an excuse for Moore. The point is, the team as a whole was not able to overcome the team's mistakes as a whole.
This is where we have a different point of view. I believe the team did overcome their mistakes with a fantastic drive that started on their own 12 yard line in the 4th. They drove it right down the ravens defenses throat. They had no answer for manning. The offense was spectacular on that drive, taking the lead. Then the defense responded and mike Adams knocked Flaccos desperate 4th down pass to the ground with minimal time to go. Those 2 scenarios in itself shows me they took control of the destiny of the game. A recipe for overcoming a bad game and winning it. Those overcoming moments were lost on one play. Where you see a team flailing all game i see a team putting it together when it meant the most and overcoming adversity. I guess were just going to have to disagree on it.

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Old 06-05-2013, 08:29 PM   #64
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This thread is like when my wife blames me for some **** I did in her dream.
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:15 PM   #65
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So is this a fluff piece.
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Old 06-06-2013, 03:15 AM   #66
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Moores tackling definitely jumped out to me last season along with his quickness. He also showed flashes of delivering punishing hits. Hes a good, young player whos only going to get better imo.

Last season, from what I watched, Moore wasnt given many opportunities to become a game changer in the passing game. Teams, the vast majority of times, didnt attack the Broncos down field (and really, why would they). The Baltimore game was a hiccup for the entire defense, not just the secondary, so I dont put much weight into that game.

This season, I think Moore will be asked to cover one on one more instead of sitting way back in a cover one most of the time. I think the Broncos play more zone this year, especially if Miller shows growth there (to combat double teams). Del Rio has always been conservative in his play calling, but with all the weapons on the defense, and in particular the secondary, I dont think he will play man to man across the board on passing down as much as last season, even though thats their strength. That could really help out Moore and give him an chance to show his ball hawking ability he had in college.
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Old 06-06-2013, 07:07 AM   #67
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This is where we have a different point of view. I believe the team did overcome their mistakes with a fantastic drive that started on their own 12 yard line in the 4th. They drove it right down the ravens defenses throat. They had no answer for manning. The offense was spectacular on that drive, taking the lead. Then the defense responded and mike Adams knocked Flaccos desperate 4th down pass to the ground with minimal time to go. Those 2 scenarios in itself shows me they took control of the destiny of the game. A recipe for overcoming a bad game and winning it. Those overcoming moments were lost on one play. Where you see a team flailing all game i see a team putting it together when it meant the most and overcoming adversity. I guess were just going to have to disagree on it.
But we didnt lose the game on that play - just as you said in your point earlier - we just lost the lead.

The team still had the opportunity to overcome that mistake through an entire OT quarter and part of a second OT and didnt.
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Old 06-06-2013, 01:32 PM   #68
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Old 06-06-2013, 02:01 PM   #69
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But we didnt lose the game on that play - just as you said in your point earlier - we just lost the lead.

The team still had the opportunity to overcome that mistake through an entire OT quarter and part of a second OT and didnt.
Yep that's where they ended up losing the game. But would those OTs exist without moores play? You can say mistakes before Moore put him in a position for that play, but Moore put the team in a position to have to play OTs.

I'm hoping this puts some nastiness in him. Some fire. I want to see him bounce back. Not lose his starting position in camp.
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Old 06-06-2013, 04:02 PM   #70
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We should cut Champ and give Moore a raise.
You have to keep Champ...otherwise, there would be no one to defend Bob Slowik.

It's unfortunate, however, that he does a better job defending Bob Slowik than he does defending Torrey Smith.

No, but seriously, too many people would find it too upsetting to cut Champ.
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Old 06-06-2013, 05:06 PM   #71
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I almost throw up when I see the name Slowik.

When we hired him this is what I first looked up. It was promising. Promising dung.

http://www.dack.com/archive/bob-slow...-be-fired.html

This was what packers fans foreshadowed.
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Old 06-06-2013, 07:37 PM   #72
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Old 06-06-2013, 09:07 PM   #73
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In other news, imperial IPA has quite a bit more ABV than regular IPA - a fact I learned post facto to my purchase this evening.

I learned something, despite all of the WalMart-like IQ suck in this thread.
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Old 06-07-2013, 04:21 AM   #74
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Moores tackling definitely jumped out to me last season along with his quickness. He also showed flashes of delivering punishing hits. Hes a good, young player whos only going to get better imo.

Last season, from what I watched, Moore wasnt given many opportunities to become a game changer in the passing game. Teams, the vast majority of times, didnt attack the Broncos down field (and really, why would they). The Baltimore game was a hiccup for the entire defense, not just the secondary, so I dont put much weight into that game.

This season, I think Moore will be asked to cover one on one more instead of sitting way back in a cover one most of the time. I think the Broncos play more zone this year, especially if Miller shows growth there (to combat double teams). Del Rio has always been conservative in his play calling, but with all the weapons on the defense, and in particular the secondary, I dont think he will play man to man across the board on passing down as much as last season, even though thats their strength. That could really help out Moore and give him an chance to show his ball hawking ability he had in college.
With all due respect, based on our free agency and draft, as well as current roster, it would be a mistake to play our CBs in zone. Bailey's been a very talented man to man corner his whole career. DRC thrived playing man in AZ and when asked to play zone in Philly he was bad. Webster played in zone in college and was not used properly, all scouting reports had him as a man to man physical corner. There was an article not to long ago about Fox wanting to get bigger at CB to match the physicality of these WRs. To move to zone would defeat how we drafted, and what we have on the roster.
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