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Old 06-01-2013, 12:24 PM   #76
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This is a great book, especially if you understand management. There are several others that also help like emotional and social intelligence by Daniel Goleman. Good to Great by Collins as well.

As to your last quote, that is definitely true. Most of the time, the smartest guy in the room may not be the best decision maker or leader. He may be smart, but smart does not mean he is effective. Just like the gentleman you described above he lacked the social and emotional skills to even take care of himself, let alone lead.

Leading a group and being smart are 2 completely different things. Way too often smart guys like McDaniels get a Job over their heads because they were successful in their previous Job, that has a very different skill set. What great organizations are finally figuring out after years of sticking successful people in one position into the next level up, is that success at one skill does not equal potential success at another. Very rarely are top salespeople successful Managers of salespeople. They have tremendous sales skills, but average to mediocre people managing skills. In this example, very rarely do great Coordinators in Football become solid Head coaches, let alone great HC's. They are 2 totally different skill sets. Some of the top HC's in the NFL right now bridge the gap by staying as Coordinators. Sean Payton, Mike Shanahan, and Mike McCarthy keep their edge by running the offense and calling plays and staying in their top skill set while adapting and handling the HC duties. McDaniels failed miserably doing that however, because he really lacked a key ingredient, deliberate practice or experience.

Fox is Solid head coach, but not brilliant by any means. However, he learned that HC's can succeed with a very solid staff making game planning, play calling, and training decisions on their own. What has hurt him, is he can not get over the hump by himself as a leader. He may make it there with this current cast he leads though.
Postmodern perspective. A lot of your post is a paraphrasing of Clegg's work, if you're familiar with him (if not, check it out, since you seem to parallel his views).

Side note: Labeling McDaniels as a "smart guy" is probably a massive pitfall.
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:54 PM   #77
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This is a great book, especially if you understand management. There are several others that also help like emotional and social intelligence by Daniel Goleman. Good to Great by Collins as well.

As to your last quote, that is definitely true. Most of the time, the smartest guy in the room may not be the best decision maker or leader. He may be smart, but smart does not mean he is effective. Just like the gentleman you described above he lacked the social and emotional skills to even take care of himself, let alone lead.

Leading a group and being smart are 2 completely different things. Way too often smart guys like McDaniels get a Job over their heads because they were successful in their previous Job, that has a very different skill set. What great organizations are finally figuring out after years of sticking successful people in one position into the next level up, is that success at one skill does not equal potential success at another. Very rarely are top salespeople successful Managers of salespeople. They have tremendous sales skills, but average to mediocre people managing skills. In this example, very rarely do great Coordinators in Football become solid Head coaches, let alone great HC's. They are 2 totally different skill sets. Some of the top HC's in the NFL right now bridge the gap by staying as Coordinators. Sean Payton, Mike Shanahan, and Mike McCarthy keep their edge by running the offense and calling plays and staying in their top skill set while adapting and handling the HC duties. McDaniels failed miserably doing that however, because he really lacked a key ingredient, deliberate practice or experience.

Fox is Solid head coach, but not brilliant by any means. However, he learned that HC's can succeed with a very solid staff making game planning, play calling, and training decisions on their own. What has hurt him, is he can not get over the hump by himself as a leader. He may make it there with this current cast he leads though.
Got to have the right people on the bus!

This is one of the reasons for my man crush on Gene, he was a great leader because he relied on the talent that he and Chris Kraft assembled and let the smart people come up with solutions and he let them work a problem without micromanaging every detail.

I keep bringing it up but the Apollo 13 incident is one of the greatest examples of leadership ever. Gene's crew was on duty when the O2 tank blew, they began the diag live. Gene then made a series of decisions that allowed the crew a chance to get home. Pulling them off the consoles at the end of their shift allowed a fresh MOCR crew to take over, he had his guys move to another conference room to work the issues and come up with action points, he broke his team up into smaller "Tiger Teams" to work those action points and they stayed with the issue owning each action point until it was closed. They slept on the floor and got their sleep like the crew did, meanwhile allowing another Flight team to take their shifts in the MOCR until it came time to move to the Capsule and power up, and splash down.

One of the great project managers ever. Gene Kranz!
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Old 06-01-2013, 12:57 PM   #78
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Postmodern perspective. A lot of your post is a paraphrasing of Clegg's work, if you're familiar with him (if not, check it out, since you seem to parallel his views).

Side note: Labeling McDaniels as a "smart guy" is probably a massive pitfall.
I think mCd is smart, I just don't think he is mature enough to handle the top job. Second guessing himself and not being patient to see how things work out.

He unloaded Smith too early, he fell in love with the idea of what he could make Tebow into, he pulled that trade for Voltron while everyone was at lunch. Lots of odd moves buy a guy who had no faith in himself or the people around him.
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:05 PM   #79
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I am reading a book called "Outliers" by Malcom Gladwell about extra ordinary people and how they got there, mostly he goes on about the 10,000 hour rule but I am at the part where he talks about the difference between people with really high IQ's. Apparently you don't have to great at everything just "good enough" to be successful. By good enough I don't mean stuff anyone could do, I mean good enough to get into med/law school. Sometimes the really smart people don't have the people skills to cope with daily life and be successful.

He goes into detail about a guy with a 195IQ who couldn't finish college because he couldn't figure out how to overcome some life obstacles. He is a smart guy and writing about physics but will never be published because he has no college transcripts. He is in his 50's and does it for fun, I would think he would have found a way to go back and finish his degree and be able to get published but that is the kind of point the author makes.

He went on to compare this guy with Oppenheimer who was younger than Gen. Groves, had no experience running anything and didn't know anything about the machines they were building but he was good at managing people and had the skills to find the right people and put them in a position to succeed.

Sometimes the smartest guy in the room is not the best guy to accomplish a task.



Reminds me of a particular polititian that is very popular.
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:07 PM   #80
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Who said he was intelligent, the TelePrompTer sure is smart.
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:16 PM   #81
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I think mCd is smart, I just don't think he is mature enough to handle the top job. Second guessing himself and not being patient to see how things work out.

He unloaded Smith too early, he fell in love with the idea of what he could make Tebow into, he pulled that trade for Voltron while everyone was at lunch. Lots of odd moves buy a guy who had no faith in himself or the people around him.
Smart people are capable of using the tools around them. Smart people are capable of adapting to circumstance. Smart people can see variables around them.

Honestly, McDouche could've used some "second guessing himself". Especially in terms of showing Nolan the door when he was literally the only asset the FO had.
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Old 06-01-2013, 01:55 PM   #82
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Smart people are capable of using the tools around them. Smart people are capable of adapting to circumstance. Smart people can see variables around them.

Honestly, McDouche could've used some "second guessing himself". Especially in terms of showing Nolan the door when he was literally the only asset the FO had.
This is the point that Gladwell makes in his book, there are smart people who are good at doing specific functions theory or play design in this instance but when they have find a way to complete a project or lead a team they fail. There were smarter people than Oppenheimer that Groves could have hired to run the Manhattan Project but Oppie had the combo of smart's, people skills and he was confident in himself that he could delegate tasks, then when it came time to make a decision he would listen to all his people and make an informed decision and move on to to the next task.

Like Med said as a coordinator he can get a job and succeed in the role Belly carves out for him but once he leaves the comfort of the Evil Empire he has no developed leadership skills or experiences to fall back on.

In mCd's mind everything had to be his way, he had no patience to let things develop over time and he trusted no one. He had no contacts out side of Belly's arc that he had to fall back to high school buddies to fill positions. He could design inventive pass plays but he could not teach them for proper execution. He didn't believe in in-game adjustments even after humiliating defeats where some adjustments could have stopped the bleeding. I remember the Indy game, they had a chance to win but mCd was insistent on being able to pick up 3 and 1 off a stretch play off the RT. It was stuffed 3 times, he didn't even try to hide the play by the formation, he trotted out the same formation and everyone knew it was coming before the snap. The failure to pick up a 3 rd and 1 on the ground should have been taught during the next week not then and there in game.
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:15 PM   #83
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A good to great coach in today's NFL does not have to be a brilliant X's & O's kind of guy, but he does need to be more than competent. More importantly, I think he needs to be a great leader. The signs are there for Fox. Of course, he needs to win a SB or two to get into the great category, but I think he will.

It is obvious that the players like to play for him, but he also has a very good well-respected staff that is very loyal to him. The only defections are promotions like Allen & McCoy. This is a complement to the HC, and says a lot about his ability to surround himself with very good people, by putting his own ego aside. Do not underestimate this attribute.

McD's ego, amongst other reasons, got the best of him. For example, when he had a good coach, like Nolan who himself was a HC and probably has an ego also, McD tries to micromanage and he eventually chases off a talented coach like Nolan. Then we get stuck with Wink because he will be subservient to the boss.

Anyway, this season will be a big test for Fox, and Manning for that matter. If the team goes 1 and out in the post season, I am not sure he gets fired, but surely Elway will put some heat on him. OTOH, if he gets the Broncos to the SB, then he did his job and he can contemplate his retirement exit into the sunset.
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:30 PM   #84
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Who said he was intelligent...
Yes, stupid people graduate from Columbia, become president of the Harvard Law Review, graduate Harvard Law magna cum laude, publish books, and become University of Chicago Law School professors every day! Not to mention becoming state senators, U.S. Senators, and POTUS! I'm sure you're similarly accomplished...
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:33 PM   #85
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He was the perfect hire to bring stability and build the franchise. But, will he need to be replaced to get Denver over the top?

I still think we won't win a Superbowl with Manning but I think Fox is building a team that will allow us to insert a QB similar to Pitt with Ben or even Phillip in Diego where we will be successful for a while.

Fox is good in all ways Shanahan wasn't and vice versa.
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:34 PM   #86
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Yes, stupid people graduate from Columbia, become president of the Harvard Law Review, graduate Harvard Law magna cum laude, publish books, and become University of Chicago Law School professors every day! Not to mention becoming state senators, U.S. Senators, and POTUS! I'm sure you're similarly accomplished...
George Bush graduated from Yale and Harvard Business... he wasn't magna cum laude, and he probably wouldn't have gotten into either if it weren't for his father... but those are rigorous programs that he did complete.

Nothing to scoff at.
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:39 PM   #87
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Just an average coach who will enjoy not winning a SB with Manning and that will probably be his best years in Denver.
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:42 PM   #88
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Just an average coach who makes more in one year than I will in a lifetime, is infinitely more attractive and in better shape than me, with a hotter wife, a nicer house and car, and relative fame and respect from his peers, who will probably enjoy winning a SB with Manning.
FYP

This is the kind of vibe I get from Bob:

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Old 06-01-2013, 02:53 PM   #89
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Yes, stupid people graduate from Columbia, become president of the Harvard Law Review, graduate Harvard Law magna cum laude, publish books, and become University of Chicago Law School professors every day! Not to mention becoming state senators, U.S. Senators, and POTUS! I'm sure you're similarly accomplished...
Some of you may know that my uncle was an Econ professor at Harvard. That dude is in his own world 3/4ths of the time. I swear he would die from forgetting to eat if it weren't for his wife (who is also kind of a clueless genius, only not as bad). He has grandkids now, and he's pretty bad with kids although he tries.

He took them (and me) to Smash Burger for lunch last summer, and spent the entire time trying analyze why they "smash" the burger on the grill and what the taste/nutrition benefit of it was. I'm like "dude, just eat the burger."

Kinda reminds me of Sheldon from Big Bang Theory
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Old 06-01-2013, 02:58 PM   #90
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This is the point that Gladwell makes in his book, there are smart people who are good at doing specific functions theory or play design in this instance but when they have find a way to complete a project or lead a team they fail. There were smarter people than Oppenheimer that Groves could have hired to run the Manhattan Project but Oppie had the combo of smart's, people skills and he was confident in himself that he could delegate tasks, then when it came time to make a decision he would listen to all his people and make an informed decision and move on to to the next task.

Like Med said as a coordinator he can get a job and succeed in the role Belly carves out for him but once he leaves the comfort of the Evil Empire he has no developed leadership skills or experiences to fall back on.

In mCd's mind everything had to be his way, he had no patience to let things develop over time and he trusted no one. He had no contacts out side of Belly's arc that he had to fall back to high school buddies to fill positions. He could design inventive pass plays but he could not teach them for proper execution. He didn't believe in in-game adjustments even after humiliating defeats where some adjustments could have stopped the bleeding. I remember the Indy game, they had a chance to win but mCd was insistent on being able to pick up 3 and 1 off a stretch play off the RT. It was stuffed 3 times, he didn't even try to hide the play by the formation, he trotted out the same formation and everyone knew it was coming before the snap. The failure to pick up a 3 rd and 1 on the ground should have been taught during the next week not then and there in game.
Truly smart people will still be successful in their roles even if they micromanage themselves into a box.

Quite frankly, none of what McDaniels did was "smart" by any stretch of the imagination, nor do your given examples apply. In fact, you mention the leap from coordinator to head coach (while ignoring the parallels in the industry, leadership within the same industry, and frankly, OJT while working under Beli), but he failed miserably as the coordinator in StL as well...

McDaniels is a far cry from "smart" by any view of the word unless we sit him down and get him to perform an IQ test. In his occupational field, all he's proven capable of doing is being one of Belichick's monkeys. Period. Where you infer any measure of intelligence from that alone, I don't know.
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Old 06-01-2013, 03:39 PM   #91
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He was the perfect hire to bring stability and build the franchise.But, will he need to be replaced to get Denver over the top?
Agree wholeheartedly with this. In a semi-related note, I think Jeff Fisher was hired to do the same thing at the Rams. He needs more talent, and maybe a QB, but the Rams made great strides in 1 year under Fisher.



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I still think we won't win a Superbowl with Manning but I think Fox is building a team that will allow us to insert a QB similar to Pitt with Ben or even Phillip in Diego where we will be successful for a while.
The first part of your sentence remains to be seen. I believe we can and will, but we'll see. However, if i am reading the 2nd part of your sentence right, I think you are right on. Fox and Elway are building a complete team that is not necessarily dependent on one guy.

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Fox is good in all ways Shanahan wasn't and vice versa.
There's some truth to that. Fox is a people person and doesn't let his ego get in the way, but is conservative to the point of stubbornness. Shanahan is a brilliant offensive mind & aggressive, but let his ego get the best of him at times(Maurice Clarett, refusal to relinquish GM duties, relationship w/ Elway etc.).
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Old 06-01-2013, 05:15 PM   #92
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Just an average coach who will enjoy not winning a SB with Manning and that will probably be his best years in Denver.
I rarely reply to your tripe because I think you are nothing more than an attention-craving whore. With that said, you do realize that with your well- deserved reputation concerning predictions, that you just propelled the Broncos to a SB victory this year...don't you?!
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Old 06-01-2013, 05:38 PM   #93
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Some of you may know that my uncle was an Econ professor at Harvard. That dude is in his own world 3/4ths of the time. I swear he would die from forgetting to eat if it weren't for his wife (who is also kind of a clueless genius, only not as bad). He has grandkids now, and he's pretty bad with kids although he tries.

He took them (and me) to Smash Burger for lunch last summer, and spent the entire time trying analyze why they "smash" the burger on the grill and what the taste/nutrition benefit of it was. I'm like "dude, just eat the burger."

Kinda reminds me of Sheldon from Big Bang Theory
Mind if I ask if he specialized in macro or micro?

In my personal experience, Ive found that homegrown Americans go on to specialize in macro while a lot more of our Asian brothers seem drawn to micro. And it's completely absurd, but I've never personally come across outliers.
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Old 06-01-2013, 05:43 PM   #94
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Your tribute game is almost on NFL Network Rev.

get yo popcorn...

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Old 06-01-2013, 05:44 PM   #95
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Your tribute game is almost on NFL Network Rev.

get yo popcorn...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/cultureshock...ckwork_big.jpg
What a stupid thing to say.
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Old 06-01-2013, 05:55 PM   #96
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Just busting your balls in good fun. Lighten up Francis.
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Old 06-01-2013, 06:34 PM   #97
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Just busting your balls in good fun. Lighten up Francis.
It was a dumb thing to say
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Old 06-01-2013, 07:59 PM   #98
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I can't really like him as our coach. He has a good staff and a good team, but he's a crappy game manager in my opinion. Maybe he should be our co-GM. I honestly attribute the lion's share of our success last year to Manning on offence and Del-Rio on defence.

In terms of game day management I feel like the modern game has left his antiquated ideas and philosophy behind to a certain extent. You have to be bold to be great. John Fox is a lot of things, bold is not one of them
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Old 06-01-2013, 08:13 PM   #99
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Mind if I ask if he specialized in macro or micro?

In my personal experience, Ive found that homegrown Americans go on to specialize in macro while a lot more of our Asian brothers seem drawn to micro. And it's completely absurd, but I've never personally come across outliers.
Macro, specifically International Monetary Relations. And he's from the Scottish side of my family.

The five micro profs I had in college were: Puerto Rican, Asian, Arab, Indian and White.

I took too many macro classes to remember... trying to remember if I had a non-white macro prof, though. I think one of them might have been Arab or Persian. A plurality (if not majority) of them were Jewish. The ones I remember off hand 3 waspy dudes, 2 jewish dudes, 1 jewish female and 1 waspy female.

I never never drew the connection.
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Old 06-01-2013, 10:14 PM   #100
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So is Elway going to waste this season then? Fox isn't good enough to win with us according to you. Think about that you **** tard.
Who said Elway was going to waste this season? Not me. Don't get your panties all wadded up into your brain, son.
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