The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Jibba Jabba > War, Religion and Politics Thread
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-14-2013, 12:58 PM   #26
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 18,812
Default

The Non-Story of the AP Phone Records, At Least So Far

http://www.volokh.com/2013/05/13/the...-least-so-far/
TonyR is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 01:44 PM   #27
elsid13
Lost In Space
 
elsid13's Avatar
 
Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: DC
Posts: 19,749
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
The leak was in the White House.
Why do you think that? If that was the case why go after the phone records of House Reporters phones?
elsid13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 02:09 PM   #28
Rigs11
Ring of Famer
 
Rigs11's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,590
Default

good. those liberal media bastards deserve this!
Rigs11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 02:21 PM   #29
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 54,427

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
The Non-Story of the AP Phone Records, At Least So Far

http://www.volokh.com/2013/05/13/the...-least-so-far/
Are leaks inherently evil? Seems like the DOJ action was pretty wide-sweeping. I would characterize it as an over-reaction. Not only that, but they were investigating a leak associated with a past operation, not a pending one. Were lives in danger? No. Sounds like the interest was more political than national security.

I'm starting to see Holder as the Rahim Moore of Attorney Generals.
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 02:27 PM   #30
elsid13
Lost In Space
 
elsid13's Avatar
 
Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: DC
Posts: 19,749
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Are leaks inherently evil? Seems like the DOJ action was pretty wide-sweeping. I would characterize it as an over-reaction. Not only that, but they were investigating a leak associated with a past operation, not a pending one. Were lives in danger? No. Sounds like the interest was more political than national security.

I'm starting to see Holder as the Rahim Moore of Attorney Generals.
US and an Ally intelligence agency were able to infiltrate Al Quida in Yemen (AQiY), but telling the world that the "bomber" worked for us it open up the AQiY ability to understand how we did it and prevent it from happening again. If the "bomber" had just disappeared like we planned they would be clueless on what happen and our method. Sometimes how we do something is more important then what we did. It is very national security related.
elsid13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 02:38 PM   #31
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 54,427

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elsid13 View Post
US and an Ally intelligence agency were able to infiltrate Al Quida in Yemen (AQiY), but telling the world that the "bomber" worked for us it open up the AQiY ability to understand how we did it and prevent it from happening again. If the "bomber" had just disappeared like we planned they would be clueless on what happen and our method. Sometimes how we do something is more important then what we did. It is very national security related.
Once the operation has taken place I imagine they wouldn't have much trouble figuring out what happened, leak or not. What I keep seeing is an expansion of government powers under all sorts of various "threats" like drugs, terrorism, etc. The government using its power to intimidate the press is chilling, on its face.
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 02:53 PM   #32
orinjkrush
...
 
orinjkrush's Avatar
 
Hey, no hurling on the shell, dude,

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: FrontRangeAbove8500ft
Posts: 5,167

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Ben Garland
Default

this is more about the gangstas the O man brought with him than it is about him. This is Chicago-land gangstas operating the way they know how.
orinjkrush is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 02:55 PM   #33
DenverBrit
Just hanging out.
 
DenverBrit's Avatar
 
Got a breath mint??

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Denver
Posts: 12,423

Adopt-a-Bronco:
The Team
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ant1999e View Post
Hole-in-one. Now deport him.
DenverBrit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 03:23 PM   #34
elsid13
Lost In Space
 
elsid13's Avatar
 
Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: DC
Posts: 19,749
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Once the operation has taken place I imagine they wouldn't have much trouble figuring out what happened, leak or not. What I keep seeing is an expansion of government powers under all sorts of various "threats" like drugs, terrorism, etc. The government using its power to intimidate the press is chilling, on its face.
If he had just disappeared they would have been scrambling to figure out what happen, did our SIGINT discover something, is there US assets in their operation, did they just screw up. Doubt in the enemies mind is critical to our success.
elsid13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 04:13 PM   #35
Arkie
Ring of Famer
 
Arkie's Avatar
 
Say 'what' again, I dare you

Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,463
Default

Quote:
What I keep seeing is an expansion of government powers under all sorts of various "threats" like drugs, terrorism, etc.
Trading freedom for security
Arkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2013, 06:57 PM   #36
barryr
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9,701

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by elsid13 View Post
Let get the facts straight, they obtain phone records from phone companies (which requires a subpoena) they tap the conversations.
Yeah, so much better.
barryr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 09:38 AM   #37
ant1999e
Ring of Famer
 
ant1999e's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: BFE
Posts: 6,250

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Money Ball
Default

Obama appoints Holder to investigate Holder

In a page ripped right out of Kafka, President Obama announced Thursday afternoon that he will appoint Attorney General Eric Holder to investigate the Attorney General’s targeting of journalists he suspected received classified data.

The targeting first came to light last week with the discovery that the Justice Department had seized two months of telephone records from Associated Press offices and reporters.

On Sunday, It was reported that Fox News correspondents’ records were also seized, extending even to Fox reporter James Rosen’s personal emails and his parent’s telephone records. The DOJ labeled Rosen as a “flight risk” and criminal “co-conspirator” in its search warrant application.

The president indicated he was “troubled by the possibility that leak investigations may chill the investigative journalism that holds government accountable,” and, according to The Hill, expressed those concerns to Attorney General Eric Holder.

“Journalists should not be at legal risk for doing their jobs,” Obama continued. “Our focus must be on those who break the law.”

“Those who break the law” are those who leak confidential information — not journalists who simply do their job.

Yet Holder personally approved the DOJ’s investigation of Fox journalist Rosen, including the search warrant application, according to NBC News.

The far left-leaning Huffington Post suggested that rather than appoint Holder to investigate his own department, the president ought to send him on his way. “Time to go,” the paper proclaimed on its home page.

Perhaps I'm either melodramatic or overly logical, but isn't appointing Holder to investigate his own department a bit like asking Adolf Eichmann to investigate living accommodations at Auschwitz?

Interestingly, back when President Obama was candidate Obama, he called for the resignation of George W. Bush’s attorney general, Alberto Gonzales, as being too much the president’s attorney and not enough the people’s attorney. This clip is from a March, 2007 appearance on Larry King Live.



http://gopthedailydose.com/2013/05/2...tigate-holder/

Last edited by ant1999e; 05-24-2013 at 10:17 AM..
ant1999e is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 10:09 AM   #38
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,999

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ant1999e View Post
Obama appoints Holder to investigate Holder

In a page ripped right out of Kafka, President Obama announced Thursday afternoon that he will appoint Attorney General Eric Holder to investigate the Attorney General’s targeting of journalists he suspected received classified data.

The targeting first came to light last week with the discovery that the Justice Department had seized two months of telephone records from Associated Press offices and reporters.

On Sunday, It was reported that Fox News correspondents’ records were also seized, extending even to Fox reporter James Rosen’s personal emails and his parent’s telephone records. The DOJ labeled Rosen as a “flight risk” and criminal “co-conspirator” in its search warrant application.

The president indicated he was “troubled by the possibility that leak investigations may chill the investigative journalism that holds government accountable,” and, according to The Hill, expressed those concerns to Attorney General Eric Holder.

“Journalists should not be at legal risk for doing their jobs,” Obama continued. “Our focus must be on those who break the law.”

“Those who break the law” are those who leak confidential information — not journalists who simply do their job.

Yet Holder personally approved the DOJ’s investigation of Fox journalist Rosen, including the search warrant application, according to NBC News.

The far left-leaning Huffington Post suggested that rather than appoint Holder to investigate his own department, the president ought to send him on his way. “Time to go,” the paper proclaimed on its home page.

Perhaps I'm either melodramatic or overly logical, but isn't appointing Holder to investigate his own department a bit like asking Adolf Eichmann to investigate living accommodations at Auschwitz?

Interestingly, back when President Obama was candidate Obama, he called for the resignation of George W. Bush’s attorney general, Alberto Gonzales, as being too much the president’s attorney and not enough the people’s attorney. This clip is from a March, 2007 appearance on Larry King Live.

Link?
peacepipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 10:23 AM   #39
ant1999e
Ring of Famer
 
ant1999e's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: BFE
Posts: 6,250

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Money Ball
Default

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3328663.html

Eric Holder Signed Off On Search Warrant For James Rosen Emails: NBC News

Attorney General Eric Holder personally signed off on the warrant that allowed the Justice Department to search Fox News reporter James Rosen's personal email, NBC News' Michael Isikoff reported Thursday.

The report places Holder at the center of one of the most controversial clashes between the press and the government in recent memory. The warrant he approved named Rosen as a "co-conspirator" in a leak investigation, causing many to warn that the Justice Department was potentially criminalizing journalism. The warrant also approved the tracking of Rosen's movements in and out of the State Department, as well as his communications with his source, Stephen Kim.

The Justice Department later said that it did not intend to press any charges against Rosen.

The attorney general is usually required to approve requests to search journalists' materials, but that rule does not extend to email records.
(Holder recused himself from the investigation into the Associated Press, meaning that he absolved himself of that responsibility.) Holder has previously said that he was not sure how many times he had authorized the search of journalists' records.

The revelation came hours after President Obama said in a speech that he was concerned about the potential implications of the Fox News and AP investigations. Obama said that Holder would be reviewing the department's rules for investigations that involve reporters.

Fox News chief Roger Ailes responded to the Justice Department's investigation on Thursday, sending a staff memo condemning the Obama administration's choices.

"We reject the government’s efforts to criminalize the pursuit of investigative journalism and falsely characterize a Fox News reporter to a Federal judge as a “co-conspirator” in a crime," Ailes wrote. "I know how concerned you are because so many of you have asked me: why should the government make me afraid to use a work phone or email account to gather news or even call a friend or family member? Well, they shouldn’t have done it."
ant1999e is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 11:51 AM   #40
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,702
Default

What a joke. Holder needs to step down and we need an outside investigator big time.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 12:12 PM   #41
barryr
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 9,701

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Of course Holder did. This admin. is more corrupt as Obama supporters believed Nixon or any republican was. But the rules of the game change for political reasons. Soldiers die? Who cares unless a republican is in the WH? Wire taps and digging up info. on reporters? Who cares unless a republican is in the WH. Drones killing innocent people? Who cares unless a republican is in the WH. IRS harassing people and auditing people for obvious political reasons? Who cares unless it's ordered by a republican admin. What a country.
barryr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 12:51 PM   #42
Requiem
~~~
 
Requiem's Avatar
 
~ ~ ~

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Earth Division
Posts: 23,325

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Princes of Tara
Default

Let us know when 100+ members of Obama's Administration get indicted on federal crimes, k?
Requiem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 08:22 AM   #43
Smiling Assassin27
Louisville Soul Train
 
Smiling Assassin27's Avatar
 
Hurry Hurry

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: In a van down by the river
Posts: 12,174

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Von Miller
Default

Smiling Assassin27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 10:36 AM   #44
ant1999e
Ring of Famer
 
ant1999e's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: BFE
Posts: 6,250

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Money Ball
Default

U.S. Is Secretly Collecting Records of Verizon Calls

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/us...anted=all&_r=0

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration is secretly carrying out a domestic surveillance program under which it is collecting business communications records involving Americans under a hotly debated section of the Patriot Act, according to a highly classified court order disclosed on Wednesday night.

A senior Obama administration official said on Thursday morning that a court order for the business records of Verizon customers, disclosed by the newspaper The Guardian, “does not allow the government to listen in on anyone’s telephone calls” and “does not include the content of any communications or the name of any subscriber,” but rather “relates exclusively to metadata, such as a telephone number or the length of the call.”

The official emphasized that “all three branches of government are involved in reviewing and authorizing” any domestic intelligence collection under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, and that any surveillance activities under it are overseen by the Justice Department, the office of the Director of National Intelligence, and the FISA Court “to ensure that they comply with the Constitution and laws of the United States and appropriately protect privacy and civil liberties.”

“Information of the sort described in the Guardian article has been a critical tool in protecting the nation from terrorist threats to the United States,” the official said, “as it allows counterterrorism personnel to discover whether known or suspected terrorists have been in contact with other persons who may be engaged in terrorist activities, particularly people located inside the United States.”

On Capitol Hill, people familiar with the program said that it was completely lawful and had been going on for years.

“As far as I know, this is the exact three-month renewal of what has been the case for the past seven years,” said Senator Dianne Feinstein, Democrat of California and the chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. “It has been briefed to Congress,” she added, and there is no content involved.

Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, told reporters on Thursday that he did not have a problem with the surveillance program because it was imperative in the war on terror.

“If we don’t do it,” Mr. Graham said, “we’re crazy.”

But some Democrats and Republicans greeted the news with alarm.

Senator Richard Durbin of Illinois, the No. 2 Democrat, said he and other senators initially learned of the government’s review of phone records in an earlier classified briefing, and although they were concerned by what they had heard, they were limited in what they could publicly criticize.

“There’s been a concern about this issue for some time,” he told reporters in the Capitol. “That’s why I think sunsetting many of these laws is appropriate because circumstances change in terms of America’s security. And our information and knowledge change in terms of threats to America.”

The order, signed in April by Judge Roger Vinson of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, directs a Verizon Communications subsidiary, Verizon Business Network Services, to turn over “on an ongoing daily basis” to the National Security Agency all call logs “between the United States and abroad” or “wholly within the United States, including local telephone calls.”

The order does not apply to the content of the communications.

Senator Mark Udall, a Colorado Democrat who has raised warnings about sweeping federal surveillance, suggested on Thursday that the program represented excessive action by the government.

“While I cannot corroborate the details of this particular report, this sort of widescale surveillance should concern all of us and is the kind of government overreach I’ve said Americans would find shocking,” Mr. Udall said. “As a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, it’s why I will keep fighting for transparency and appropriate checks on the surveillance of Americans.”

United States Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. said on Thursday that members of Congress were fully briefed on the intelligence-gathering program that included the daily collection of telephone records from Verizon Communications.

Verizon Business Network Services is one of the nation’s largest telecommunications and Internet providers for corporations. It was not clear whether similar orders have gone to other parts of Verizon, like its residential or cellphone services, or to other telecommunications carriers. The order prohibits its recipient from discussing its existence, and representatives of both Verizon and AT&T declined to comment Wednesday evening.

The four-page order was disclosed Wednesday evening. Obama administration officials at the F.B.I. and the White House also declined to comment on it Wednesday evening, but did not deny the report, and a person familiar with the order confirmed its authenticity. “We will respond as soon as we can,” Marci Green Miller, a National Security Agency spokeswoman, said in an e-mail.

The order was sought by the Federal Bureau of Investigation under a section of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, the 1978 law that regulates domestic surveillance for national security purposes, including “tangible things” like a business’s customer records. The provision was expanded by Section 215 of the Patriot Act, which Congress enacted after the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

The order was marked “TOP SECRET//SI//NOFORN,” referring to communications-related intelligence information that may not be released to noncitizens. That would make it among the most closely held secrets in the federal government, and its disclosure comes amid a furor over the Obama administration’s aggressive tactics in its investigations of leaks.

The collection of call logs is set to expire in July unless the court extends it.

The collection of communications logs — or calling “metadata” — is believed to be a major component of the Bush administration’s program of surveillance that took place without court orders. The newly disclosed order raised the question of whether the government continued that type of information collection by bringing it under the Patriot Act.

The disclosure late Wednesday seemed likely to inspire further controversy over the scope of government surveillance. Kate Martin of the Center for National Security Studies, a civil liberties advocacy group, said that “absent some explanation I haven’t thought of, this looks like the largest assault on privacy since the N.S.A. wiretapped Americans in clear violation of the law” under the Bush administration. “On what possible basis has the government refused to tell us that it believes that the law authorizes this kind of request?” she said.

For several years, two Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee, Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon and Senator Udall, have been cryptically warning that the government was interpreting its surveillance powers under that section of the Patriot Act in a way that would be alarming to the public if it knew about it.

“We believe most Americans would be stunned to learn the details of how these secret court opinions have interpreted Section 215 of the Patriot Act,” they wrote last year in a letter to Mr. Holder.

They added: “As we see it, there is now a significant gap between what most Americans think the law allows and what the government secretly claims the law allows. This is a problem, because it is impossible to have an informed public debate about what the law should say when the public doesn’t know what its government thinks the law says.”

A spokesman for Senator Wyden did not respond Wednesday to a request for comment on the Verizon order.

The senators were angry because the Obama administration described Section 215 orders as being similar to a grand jury subpoena for obtaining business records, like a suspect’s hotel or credit card records, in the course of an ordinary criminal investigation. The senators said the secret interpretation of the law was nothing like that.

Section 215 of the Patriot Act made it easier to get an order from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to obtain business records so long as they were merely deemed “relevant” to a national-security investigation.

The Justice Department has denied being misleading about the Patriot Act. Department officials have acknowledged since 2009 that a secret, sensitive intelligence program is based on the law and have insisted that their statements about the matter have been accurate.

The New York Times filed a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit in 2011 for a report describing the government’s interpretation of its surveillance powers under the Patriot Act. But the Obama administration withheld the report, and a judge dismissed the case.
ant1999e is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 11:34 AM   #45
Dukes
Ring of Famer
 
Dukes's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 6,161
Default

MMMMM I love the smell of Tyranny in the morning.
Dukes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 11:45 AM   #46
houghtam
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,396
Default

And here we are again. Did you read the article? Several references in there about how this has been going on for years.

Where were your complaints when your boy was in office, you partisan shill?
houghtam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 12:21 PM   #47
Rigs11
Ring of Famer
 
Rigs11's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 8,590
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by houghtam View Post
And here we are again. Did you read the article? Several references in there about how this has been going on for years.

Where were your complaints when your boy was in office, you partisan shill?
There were no complaints from the rightards till now. they are trying everything to bring down obama. guess what? it ain't working. his poll numbers are holding steady.
Rigs11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 12:50 PM   #48
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 18,812
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by houghtam View Post
And here we are again. Did you read the article? Several references in there about how this has been going on for years.

Where were your complaints when your boy was in office, you partisan shill?
Also, that story is from that liberal rag NYT. So how can it be true?
TonyR is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 01:06 PM   #49
houghtam
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,396
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
Also, that story is from that liberal rag NYT. So how can it be true?
Yeah where's barry to whine about how the liberal media isn't covering this?
houghtam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2013, 01:33 PM   #50
Smiling Assassin27
Louisville Soul Train
 
Smiling Assassin27's Avatar
 
Hurry Hurry

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: In a van down by the river
Posts: 12,174

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Von Miller
Default

When you're a liberal and you lose the NYT...

Quote:
Those reassurances have never been persuasive — whether on secret warrants to scoop up a news agency’s phone records or secret orders to kill an American suspected of terrorism — especially coming from a president who once promised transparency and accountability. The administration has now lost all credibility. Mr. Obama is proving the truism that the executive will use any power it is given and very likely abuse it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/op...gnet.html?_r=0


Hilarious that it took this long, but then it is the NYT--sworn to uphold Democratic pols come hell or high water. The corruption is just so obvious that even the NYT can't sacrifice anymore of its already low credibility for the sake of Caesar.
Smiling Assassin27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:15 AM.


Denver Broncos