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Old 05-22-2013, 01:34 PM   #51
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The downside is gamestop would probably go out of business. I wouldn't be thrilled but I could live with that.

We'll see what they do.

Downside? I know every person's experience with various retailers is unique, but I will dance a jig the day GameStop's blighted existence comes to an end.
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Old 05-22-2013, 01:38 PM   #52
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I do.
I thought I smelled cabbage.
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Old 05-22-2013, 02:06 PM   #53
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Looks like a VCR you'd toss in old VHS porno flicks into and is probably going to be a piece of **** system like the 360 was.

It's a money dump, as Chris mentioned above. Waste of $. Waste of resources. Nothing spectacular about it.

Next system up: PS4.
Yes, I will not be purchasing it because, 1) OMG the name is terrible and 2) because of the way it looks.


[/sarcasm]

Actually, to expand on #2, I much prefer this design as it will better fit into my entertainment rack in my media center.
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Old 05-22-2013, 02:33 PM   #54
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Yes, I will not be purchasing it because, 1) OMG the name is terrible and 2) because of the way it looks.


[/sarcasm]

Actually, to expand on #2, I much prefer this design as it will better fit into my entertainment rack in my media center.
After going through three XBOX 360s in less than two years (sophomore and junior years of college) -- I decided enough is enough. About 9 months ago I bought a PS3 (sadly before the slimmest version came out) and I have not had any problems with it. Streams stuff fine, plays DVDs/BluRay like a charm and has a good selection of games.

Want some real beef with it? Fine. (BTW, I am not even a PS fanboy, I just feel it is the superior product.
  • Weaker GPU in comparison to PS4
  • Not using GDDR 5, just GDDR 3
  • Fee to play
  • Compatibility issues
Just off the top of my head, and yes, aesthetics / appearance do matter to me. It is quite obvious that they are wanting to trend this towards a "multimedia" system rather than just a console. If so, they should have put in better hardware. My personal thoughts. If you want to go and get it, more power to you. I will not.

Last edited by Requiem; 05-22-2013 at 02:35 PM..
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Old 05-22-2013, 02:33 PM   #55
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Actually, to expand on #2, I much prefer this design as it will better fit into my entertainment rack in my media center.
I think that's what the point is. MS really wants to establish a firm hold on your living room/entertainment world. The XBox/gaming has always been a wedge strategy toward that end.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:14 PM   #56
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  • Weaker GPU in comparison to PS4
  • Not using GDDR 5, just GDDR 3
  • Fee to play
  • Compatibility issues
There aren't enough details about either at this point to use the bolded points as a deciding factor. Sony may be moving to an online fee model similar to xbox live gold with their PSplus.

I'm not sure what compatibility issues you're speaking of. Aside from the GPU and system RAM (which based on how MS set up the embedded RAM may also be a wash as far as performance despite Sony using GDDR 5 instead of DDR 3), the actual consoles hardware are identical.

I would say at this point (pre-E3), by far the biggest issue is the lack of info about games for the Xbox.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:26 PM   #57
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There aren't enough details about either at this point to use the bolded points as a deciding factor. Sony may be moving to an online fee model similar to xbox live gold with their PSplus.

I'm not sure what compatibility issues you're speaking of. Aside from the GPU and system RAM (which based on how MS set up the embedded RAM may also be a wash as far as performance despite Sony using GDDR 5 instead of DDR 3), the actual consoles hardware are identical.

I would say at this point (pre-E3), by far the biggest issue is the lack of info about games for the Xbox.
So much time was wasted on CoD in that viewing.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:28 PM   #58
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You know what pissed me off the most about the conference? Activision thinks this: is next-gen.

Even though this:is current gen (PC though).

Last edited by misturanderson; 05-22-2013 at 04:33 PM..
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:31 PM   #59
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They've come out saying the always online isn't mandatory for games, but probably will be for other features. They also put to bed the rumor that they are going to require fees for used games. It will likely need to be uninstalled from your system before you can resell it, or rather, before it can be reinstalled on another system, though.
Always online was a dodge, FYI. Your system has to connect to MS' servers every 24 hours to do ANYTHING and that includes playing games. So it's basically always online but with a very friendly time out window. Still a screw you kind of move.

Also, they have clearly said that playing games from someone else's disc will require a fee of some kind, and that the game is entirely tied to your account. The example of "if your friend wants to play your game at his house you'll have to log him into your account" was given.

They'll probably have a deactivation feature that will let you trade software in, but they're still going to charge the new purchaser on the back end. That person hasn't paid them yet and they aren't getting away for free, MS has made that much incredibly clear.

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There aren't enough details about either at this point to use the bolded points as a deciding factor. Sony may be moving to an online fee model similar to xbox live gold with their PSplus.
PS+ is nothing like XBL Gold. XBL Gold is an arbitrary pay wall blocking you from basic services (like Netflix and playing p2p games online). PS+ is effectively a discount club and game equivalent to Netflix in one. There are no services locked away from a non-PS+ subscriber while nearly everything of worth on XBL is behind the Gold pay wall.

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I'm not sure what compatibility issues you're speaking of. Aside from the GPU and system RAM (which based on how MS set up the embedded RAM may also be a wash as far as performance despite Sony using GDDR 5 instead of DDR 3), the actual consoles hardware are identical.
1. Hell no EDRAM doesn't make up for Sony using GDDR5. The theoretical max if a developer perfectly times the read/write ops from DDR3 to the EDRAM along with the DDR3 pipe to the GPU is 104GB/s or thereabouts. The GDDR5 RAM Sony is using runs at 176GB/s without any kind of fine tuning or tweaking.

2. They don't have the same GPU. MS' GPU is 1.2 TFLOPs while Sony's is 1.8TFLOPs. This is because MS had to use up extra die space for the EDRAM.

3. All rumors (that were right about nearly everything else) speculate that the PS4's OS is 512MB-1GB. MS has confirmed that the OS memory allocation of the XB1 is 3GB. So from the 8GB of unified memory each has to start with Sony is leaving 7GB for developers while MS is giving them 5GB.

These are all pretty significant differences. #2 in particular since both systems are built with relatively light weight CPUs and are using more conventional PC style architectures that are GPU heavy. Sony having a 50% compute edge there is a big difference. Sony being able to feed it with significantly faster ram is a big difference. Sony likely providing more total memory to developers is another big difference.

MS played it safe on the hardware, Sony took some gambles that have now paid off quite well (GDDR5). MS is also shorting the silicon's total available budget to make sure they can put Kinect in every box, while Sony is entirely focused on the games side of the system.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:36 PM   #60
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That isn't what Crysis 3 looks like on a current gen console. High end PCs are already more powerful than what the "next gen" consoles will be. The term means nothing in the context of PC graphics.
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:42 PM   #61
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PS+ is nothing like XBL Gold. XBL Gold is an arbitrary pay wall blocking you from basic services (like Netflix and playing p2p games online). PS+ is effectively a discount club and game equivalent to Netflix in one. There are no services locked away from a non-PS+ subscriber while nearly everything of worth on XBL is behind the Gold pay wall.
There are plenty of rumors that Sony will be moving to a fee-to-play model like Xbox live gold with PS+ on the new system. There has been no confirmation or denial of this.

It also isn't clear whether they will have a similar used games model to MS (considering that it is all being pushed for by publishers as much as the console manufacturers which affects them both equally). If Sony isn't doing this and MS is, it would be interesting to see how that impacts third-party exclusives and support.

I won't get into the hardware issues since I really don't fully understand all of the numbers, but from what I read the (theoretical max) 107 Gb/s from the EDRAM would be added on to the 60 or so Gb/s inherent in the DDR3, making it essentially a wash from a numbers standpoint. Sony does have a clear advantage in the GPU department.

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Old 05-22-2013, 04:43 PM   #62
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That isn't what Crysis 3 looks like on a current gen console. High end PCs are already more powerful than what the "next gen" consoles will be. The term means nothing in the context of PC graphics.
I know, but that is what Crysis 3 would look like on one of the next-gen consoles (considering it's what it looks like on my middle of the road gaming PC).

Also Crysis 3 on current gen still looks better than those COD: Ghosts renders (though hopefully they have some lighting improvements that would make up for it).
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Old 05-22-2013, 04:47 PM   #63
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I know, but that is what Crysis 3 would look like on one of the next-gen consoles (considering it's what it looks like on my middle of the road gaming PC).

Also Crysis 3 on current gen still looks better than those COD: Ghosts renders (though hopefully they have some lighting improvements that would make up for it).
Oh I agree that COD: Ghosts does not look that impressive, but is anyone surprised? COD is a franchise that has had sub-par graphics for years. I couldn't help but laugh when the Activision rep was claiming that MW3 was "state of the art". That game looks like 60 fps of **** even by current gen console standards.
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Old 05-22-2013, 07:19 PM   #64
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For any serious gaming, it's PC master race only.

Nothing but casuals up in here.
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Old 05-22-2013, 07:24 PM   #65
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For any serious gaming, it's PC master race only.

Nothing but casuals up in here.
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Old 05-22-2013, 07:25 PM   #66
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MS played it safe on the hardware, Sony took some gambles that have now paid off quite well (GDDR5).
I think they said this last gen too, in theory. A lot of it rests on the development kit though, and what 3rd parties can make out of that. That's where xbox 360 shone vs ps3 even if the hardware was maybe technically inferior.

It's usually hard to tell which hardware approach is the best until developers really start to get their hands dirty.
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Old 05-22-2013, 07:26 PM   #67
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you're not a real gamer until you're a part of the indie blogosphere. ya'll can't touch this.
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Old 05-22-2013, 10:15 PM   #68
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I haven't bought a system since the PS2 .. color me confused on this technology
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Old 05-22-2013, 10:23 PM   #69
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Who the F goes into a XBOX thread and starts talking **** about how computers are better for gaming.....

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Old 05-22-2013, 10:27 PM   #70
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For any serious gaming, it's PC master race only.

Nothing but casuals up in here.
on 19" monitors
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Old 05-22-2013, 10:31 PM   #71
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There are plenty of rumors that Sony will be moving to a fee-to-play model like Xbox live gold with PS+ on the new system. There has been no confirmation or denial of this.

It also isn't clear whether they will have a similar used games model to MS (considering that it is all being pushed for by publishers as much as the console manufacturers which affects them both equally). If Sony isn't doing this and MS is, it would be interesting to see how that impacts third-party exclusives and support.

I won't get into the hardware issues since I really don't fully understand all of the numbers, but from what I read the (theoretical max) 107 Gb/s from the EDRAM would be added on to the 60 or so Gb/s inherent in the DDR3, making it essentially a wash from a numbers standpoint. Sony does have a clear advantage in the GPU department.
Both Sony and Microsoft want used games sales to be dead. So do gaming companies, however nobody wants to take the blame for the death of used games essentially so nobody will hone up to what is going to happen.

As for the fee to play, until you can prove otherwise, PS4 will be free for a majority of the features while XBox you will have to have the gold membership to get the same features. Honestly, its a small fee if you really think about it. This whole situation is incredibly minor. I just think it is completely silly for Microsoft to basically charge you to have the ability to stream Netflix.
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Old 05-23-2013, 12:09 AM   #72
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Who the F goes into a XBOX thread and starts talking **** about how computers are better for gaming.....

How do you kill that which has no life? BTW, he ate your avatar x 100.
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Old 05-23-2013, 03:10 AM   #73
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There are plenty of rumors that Sony will be moving to a fee-to-play model like Xbox live gold with PS+ on the new system. There has been no confirmation or denial of this.
Why would Sony's representatives confirm they aren't doing something they've never done before?

Microsoft charging for basic features (online p2p gaming, Netflix, etc.) is something entirely unique to the Xbox ecosystem. No one else does that. Not Steam based games, not Sony, not Nintendo, not Apple on iOS or Google on Android. It is literally a concept created by and only espoused by Microsoft. So vacuous rumors aren't worth a whole lot if you ask me when no one else has followed their lead.

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It also isn't clear whether they will have a similar used games model to MS (considering that it is all being pushed for by publishers as much as the console manufacturers which affects them both equally). If Sony isn't doing this and MS is, it would be interesting to see how that impacts third-party exclusives and support.
This is literally impossible for the PS4 to do.

The XB1 ties every new game you insert into the system to your user account, won't let a game play until it's been tied to a user account online, and requires 24 hour check ins to make sure everything is running correctly (read: not being circumvented).

Sony's various representatives have all said that 1. you never need to take the PS4 online if you don't want to and 2. that any retail game will play on any PS4, online or otherwise. That alone means that MS' implementation (and any real used games blocking of single player titles) is technologically impossible from an OS standpoint.

3rd parties will be required to implement their own "always online" check to force no used games on the PS4 and Sony has said they won't stop them, but it'll be up to them and not a console standard. This is a world of difference from what MS is suggesting.

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I won't get into the hardware issues since I really don't fully understand all of the numbers, but from what I read the (theoretical max) 107 Gb/s from the EDRAM would be added on to the 60 or so Gb/s inherent in the DDR3, making it essentially a wash from a numbers standpoint. Sony does have a clear advantage in the GPU department.
It doesn't work like that. You can't just add two disparate bandwidths together and call it good. They share many of the same pipelines and are heading to the same source (the GPGPU). Further, one of those two is actively feeding the other, cutting down on it's available bandwidth to run straight to the GPU.

Its a heavy handed implementation used because they needed 8GB of RAM (for a 3GB OS footprint) and couldn't safely bet on GDDR5 reaching 512mb chip sizes by 2013. Since DDR3's bandwidth would massively handicap the GPU they needed an alternative approach. That was EDRAM. It still isn't as good as pure GDDR5, cost them transistors on the GPU die, and complicates the programming environment and data management for every developer.

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For any serious gaming, it's PC master race only.

Nothing but casuals up in here.
Last I checked PC doesn't have:
Mario
Zelda
ANY Platinum Games (such as Bayonetta)
God of War
Uncharted
Infamous
Gran Turismo
etc.

See the problem with PC only? Too many top tier games are console only. The real master race owns everything.

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Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
I think they said this last gen too, in theory. A lot of it rests on the development kit though, and what 3rd parties can make out of that. That's where xbox 360 shone vs ps3 even if the hardware was maybe technically inferior.

It's usually hard to tell which hardware approach is the best until developers really start to get their hands dirty.
Last generation Sony forced a convoluted architecture in an attempt to subsidize a modular CPU model with the Cell. The focus wasn't on games or making developer's lives easier.

In the end Sony's system had a far superior CPU to the X360, but a slightly inferior GPU, a larger OS footprint, and slightly less total memory (due to the X360 also using a form of embedded RAM). Developers are primarily PC based which is a GPU first base to build from, so every PS3 game had to be heavily re-optimized to push operations off to the Cell instead of the RSX, which in turn also required complex manipulation of the Cell's multiple processors.

Now they're both x86 silicon made by AMD/ATi, based on previous Radeon GCN chipsets. They both have their libraries built on Visual Studio. Sony already greatly improved their tools last generation, bridging much of the gap they had with MS at launch. This is a pretty apples to apples comparison and it doesn't take time on both kits to know that something with 50% more TFLOPs within the same architecture is going to be more powerful.
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Old 05-23-2013, 12:13 PM   #74
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Please tell me I can control it by saying "Make it so" rather than "Punch it"
Nice. That had me rollin for about 2 minutes.

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Old 05-23-2013, 12:30 PM   #75
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PC gaming vs Console gaming. There's pros and cons to each. PC gaming gives you much more flexibility. There's free mods to many popular games you can download fro free. Not so much with Consoles. PC graphics can achieve greater looks but that comes at a price. My graphics card cost more then a PS3, lol. But consoles are nice if you want to just kick it on the couch and play on the big screen. Both are alive and well and to be honest, alot of people now have both. Almost all of my friends have both.
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