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Old 05-20-2013, 02:44 PM   #101
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If you like some jerk off taking one of the biggest Marvel villains and something the franchise had building toward since the initial installment and turning it into a ****ing punchline
I don't care about the comics.

It was a good, entertaining flick and showed me something I hadn't seen before.

It wasn't a POS ripoff.
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:27 PM   #102
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Any there in lies the rub. Star Trek was never meant to be a ****ing action movie series. It was meant to be a sci-fi movie franchise. It was supposed to be something in the mold of The Abyss, or the original Alien, not DieHard in space. It was movie franchise that was meant to grapple with bigger ideas and themes, and while the original 10 didn't always succeed in that endeavor, at least they ****ing tried.





Sorry, when playing with the Star Trek franchise, you don't get to play the "Its just a fun summer movie get over your expectations" card This is a franchise that influenced countless thousands of young minds towards the science and engineering fields, it was a franchise that in a very racially backward time dared to put a Black Woman and Asian Man on the bridge. Yes, their metaphors were sometimes clunky and unwieldy, but this was a franchise that was always about expecting more. To see all of that reduced to a pandering action film franchise is the equivalent of Producing a Godfather sequel in the mold of The Fast and the Furious. So yes, I will criticized this poorly conceived, poorly written, and poorly executed pile of excrement.
This is what I have been trying to say all along Bravo!

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Old 05-21-2013, 01:53 AM   #103
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I loved it. I'm not a big Sci-Fi fan at all, I prefer High Fantasy (dork v. nerd, right?), but my wife grew up on Star Trek so I went to see it with her. I thought the first reboot was good, and I thought this one was much better. I really liked this movie. I would classify it more action than Sci-Fi though.

All that being said, I never watched Star Trek on TV nor the original movies, though I did see the one with the whales as a kid. And I remember pretty much that it had whales.

So, for comparison purposes, I have nothing. I just watched this as a detached person looking for some action entertainment, and it passed with flying colors in that regard.
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:15 AM   #104
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Maybe as the characters get older they will deal with some themes more like what humanity is, the search for knowledge etc etc. Right now Spock Kirk and company are young and brash. Just a different take on it that sort of gives the series room to grow when Abrahms turns it over to a new director to do star wars.
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:31 AM   #105
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Star Trek the show - essentially a series of self contained morality plays - wouldn't work as a movie, and I actually don't think it would work as a series anymore. People want continuity and progression in their shows now. You can't really have these self-contained episodes where everything wraps up nicely and they move on to the next thing. The last vestiges of this are in crime dramas and maybe you could make a case for hospital dramas. Even those have started to veer away from the compartmentalization of stories in an episode.

And for those whining the movies are too action packed for what Star Trek was, guess what? Most of the movies had action, and all the cerebral movies that dealt with existentialism and morals were the worst.

In order of awesomeness
1. Wrath of Khan - Action
2. First Contact - Action, humor
3. Undiscovered Country - Action, humor
3. Star Trek - Action, humor
4. Voyage Home - humor, morality
5. Generations - action, humor, morality
6. Search for Spock - action, morality
7. Nemisis - action, morality
8. Motion Picture (Director's cut) - morality
9. Insurrection - action, morality
10. Final Frontier (sorry Shatner) Morality, some action
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Old 05-21-2013, 10:45 AM   #106
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Old 05-21-2013, 01:51 PM   #107
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And for those whining the movies are too action packed for what Star Trek was, guess what? Most of the movies had action, and all the cerebral movies that dealt with existentialism and morals were the worst.
I think you misunderstand my complaint. I'm not complaining about the amount of action in the film. Action sequences are often an important part of any drama. Its typically the tool used to achieve resolution in a conflict. But action was never the point, even in Wrath of Khan, which is arguably one of the more action packed of the first 10 movies. Wrath of Khan was all about facing your own mortality. Hell, it even gets pretty heavy handed with it (as I mentioned, the Treks weren't always deft with their themes) But it is pretty clearly a morality play in which Kirk finally learns that he can't cheat death.

You've mentioned it earlier in this very thread, J.J. Abrams is a great visual story-teller, but hasn't got the first clue how to construct a cohesive narrative that makes any sense. Every plot point in the film is a poorly conceived attempt to stage the next action sequence. I remember reading that when Naughty Dog was creating Uncharted 3, they created the big action set pieces first, and then tried to find a way to stitch them together into a single narrative. It really feels like that is Abrams approach to story-telling as well, and it just doesn't work for me.
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:04 PM   #108
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I think you misunderstand my complaint. I'm not complaining about the amount of action in the film. Action sequences are often an important part of any drama. Its typically the tool used to achieve resolution in a conflict. But action was never the point, even in Wrath of Khan, which is arguably one of the more action packed of the first 10 movies. Wrath of Khan was all about facing your own mortality. Hell, it even gets pretty heavy handed with it (as I mentioned, the Treks weren't always deft with their themes) But it is pretty clearly a morality play in which Kirk finally learns that he can't cheat death.

You've mentioned it earlier in this very thread, J.J. Abrams is a great visual story-teller, but hasn't got the first clue how to construct a cohesive narrative that makes any sense. Every plot point in the film is a poorly conceived attempt to stage the next action sequence. I remember reading that when Naughty Dog was creating Uncharted 3, they created the big action set pieces first, and then tried to find a way to stitch them together into a single narrative. It really feels like that is Abrams approach to story-telling as well, and it just doesn't work for me.
I am totally convinced that's what he does. I think he can think visually and his approach to sequences is dynamic and innovative. But yes, as a story writer he isn't very good and you can see him frame things around these beautiful scenes he wants to show with often clumsy results.

That said, I like some of his movies. Probably because I think some things can get messed up if you try to bog them down with too much moral rhetoric or overly-clever plot points. I haven't seen Into Darkness, yet, and I may hate it, but one thing I've learned as a fan of the franchise since I was five is that Star Trek is it's best when it doesn't take itself too seriously. Abrahms breathed life into a dead franchise, and as imperfect as it has been (and sometimes outright ludicrous) he brought it back with, if arguably not more popularity, certainly more appeal than when it whithered on the vine. For that I will excuse some of these things if I get to enjoy new Star Trek movies again. For me, Star Trek is beloved, but it isn't sacrosanct.
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:52 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
Star Trek the show - essentially a series of self contained morality plays - wouldn't work as a movie, and I actually don't think it would work as a series anymore. People want continuity and progression in their shows now. You can't really have these self-contained episodes where everything wraps up nicely and they move on to the next thing. The last vestiges of this are in crime dramas and maybe you could make a case for hospital dramas. Even those have started to veer away from the compartmentalization of stories in an episode.

And for those whining the movies are too action packed for what Star Trek was, guess what? Most of the movies had action, and all the cerebral movies that dealt with existentialism and morals were the worst.

In order of awesomeness
1. Wrath of Khan - Action
2. First Contact - Action, humor
3. Undiscovered Country - Action, humor
3. Star Trek - Action, humor
4. Voyage Home - humor, morality
5. Generations - action, humor, morality
6. Search for Spock - action, morality
7. Nemisis - action, morality
8. Motion Picture (Director's cut) - morality
9. Insurrection - action, morality
10. Final Frontier (sorry Shatner) Morality, some action
Negged for putting the Motion Picutre above anything including non-ST films that may have gone straight to video (directors cut or not.....dooooont care).

Ok....I wouldn't actually neg rep you but you get the point.

McCoys beard and bald women.....they might be amusing for a moment.

Prolly not much longer that.
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Old 05-21-2013, 06:20 PM   #110
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Negged for putting the Motion Picutre above anything including non-ST films that may have gone straight to video (directors cut or not.....dooooont care).

Ok....I wouldn't actually neg rep you but you get the point.

McCoys beard and bald women.....they might be amusing for a moment.

Prolly not much longer that.
Really the director's cut is a lot better.
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Old 05-21-2013, 06:39 PM   #111
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Saw the previews for the film and I shook my head wondering, "When the **** did Star Trek become GI Joe in space?"
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Old 05-21-2013, 08:26 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
Star Trek the show - essentially a series of self contained morality plays - wouldn't work as a movie, and I actually don't think it would work as a series anymore. People want continuity and progression in their shows now. You can't really have these self-contained episodes where everything wraps up nicely and they move on to the next thing. The last vestiges of this are in crime dramas and maybe you could make a case for hospital dramas. Even those have started to veer away from the compartmentalization of stories in an episode.

And for those whining the movies are too action packed for what Star Trek was, guess what? Most of the movies had action, and all the cerebral movies that dealt with existentialism and morals were the worst.

In order of awesomeness
1. Wrath of Khan - Action
2. First Contact - Action, humor
3. Undiscovered Country - Action, humor
3. Star Trek - Action, humor
4. Voyage Home - humor, morality
5. Generations - action, humor, morality
6. Search for Spock - action, morality
7. Nemisis - action, morality
8. Motion Picture (Director's cut) - morality
9. Insurrection - action, morality
10. Final Frontier (sorry Shatner) Morality, some action
The TNG movies I don't remember but I only saw them once or twice. I liked the last one the best.

1) TWOK
2) TMP DIRECTORS CUT!!!
3) Voyage Home
4) the last TNG movie
5) ST III
6) Undiscovered Country
Everything after doesn't really matter. A year or 2 ago I would have swapped VI and III but III actually holds up better than VI.
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Old 05-21-2013, 08:49 PM   #113
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I love VI. Christopher Plummer is awesome. And Kim Catrall is a suprisingly good Vulcan. The battles are good. Everyone gets a moment of being awesome and funny, and Christian Slater even makes a cameo.
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Old 05-21-2013, 08:55 PM   #114
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I love VI. Christopher Plummer is awesome. And Kim Catrall is a suprisingly good Vulcan. The battles are good. Everyone gets a moment of being awesome and funny, and Christian Slater even makes a cameo.
Yea but I rewatched all but V 2 years ago and I thought VI didn't hold up as well and III surprised me more with age.

What you posted above is why I liked it when I first saw it. Maybe it was the cluncky end where they *** Spoiler Alert *** foil the assignation plot that I didn't like it. There were small things too that should been caught in post production.

I hated III for the longest time mostly because they destroyed the Enterprise and the replacement Saavik but it was better shot and had some good action plus it was a very good setup to the next movie.
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:00 PM   #115
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Yea but I rewatraumatic the but V 2 years ago and I thought VI didn't hold up as well and III surprised me more with age.

What you posted above is why I liked it when I first saw it. Maybe it was the cluncky end where they *** Spoiler Alert *** foil the assignation plot that I didn't like it. There were small things too that should been caught in post production.

I hated III for the longest time mostly because they destroyed the Enterprise and the replacement Saavik but it was better shot and had some good action plus it was a very good setup to the next movie.
Yeah the destruction of the ship was very traumatic the first time I saw it.
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:08 PM   #116
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At the time a lot of people thought Leonard Nimoy was just trying to kill the series, and his involvement in it, off forever. He had to be begged to do the movies and only agreed to the second if he could die at the end. It took letting him direct to get the third one going. Then he blows up the enterprise and people thought he was just acting out again.
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:33 PM   #117
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Nimoy co-wrote Star Trek VI, too.

He's the best thing that ever happened to Star Trek movies.
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:34 PM   #118
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Kaylore, I assume you've already read Shatner's Star Trek making-of books, yes?

This is also a very good read.

http://www.amazon.com/View-Bridge-Me.../dp/B002XULXV0
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Old 05-21-2013, 10:29 PM   #119
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Nimoy co-wrote Star Trek VI, too.

He's the best thing that ever happened to Star Trek movies.
He was the better director between him and Shat.

Cinematicly Robert Wise was hands down the best director of Star Trek and Star Wars combined. only Riddley Scot gave Wise a run for the money.

After Wise I would go

Nick Meyer.

Then, Nimoy

Meyer again
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Old 05-21-2013, 10:38 PM   #120
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At the time a lot of people thought Leonard Nimoy was just trying to kill the series, and his involvement in it, off forever. He had to be begged to do the movies and only agreed to the second if he could die at the end. It took letting him direct to get the third one going. Then he blows up the enterprise and people thought he was just acting out again.
I thought it was more written to kill off Spock, and if they couldn't sign him back for a couple more movies then just keep him dead. I just watched this with my 10 year old daughter for her 1st time to see TWOK and you could tell all the forshadowing, the Admiral on the ship meeting in the torpedo tubes, the use of great lit to forshadow death, needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one...the whole no win scenario theme that ran through the major characters, finally the last of the Tale of 2 Cities, I have been and all ways will be your friend. even thought the 1st and last chapters are perfect for the movie the rest of Dickens book doesn't have any other great quotes to steal.

Lucky for us they made the Spock III act believe able and slowly got Spock back to where he could play a couple roles in III and IV which were funny and touching.

Now I have to get ST III for my daughter to watch so she can see how they were able to bring him back to life and cheat the Kobishi Maur again.
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Old 05-23-2013, 09:56 AM   #121
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For all you trekkies, just saw this on r/amazondeals -

Star Trek I-VI + Captain's Summit Bonus Disc (all Blu-Ray) for $38.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=martyhucom-20

Your welcome.
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:17 AM   #122
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I thought it was more written to kill off Spock, and if they couldn't sign him back for a couple more movies then just keep him dead. I just watched this with my 10 year old daughter for her 1st time to see TWOK and you could tell all the forshadowing, the Admiral on the ship meeting in the torpedo tubes, the use of great lit to forshadow death, needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one...the whole no win scenario theme that ran through the major characters, finally the last of the Tale of 2 Cities, I have been and all ways will be your friend. even thought the 1st and last chapters are perfect for the movie the rest of Dickens book doesn't have any other great quotes to steal.

Lucky for us they made the Spock III act believe able and slowly got Spock back to where he could play a couple roles in III and IV which were funny and touching.

Now I have to get ST III for my daughter to watch so she can see how they were able to bring him back to life and cheat the Kobishi Maur again.
Yeah just be sure to tell her when she watches III "Now sweetie this doesn't mean you can tell the mean girls at school that you hope pain is something they enjoy, k". I once got in trouble for using some of Lloyd's better lines way back in junior high.
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Old 05-23-2013, 12:43 PM   #123
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Kaylore, I assume you've already read Shatner's Star Trek making-of books, yes?

This is also a very good read.

http://www.amazon.com/View-Bridge-Me.../dp/B002XULXV0
I actually haven't read a lot of books on the making of certain movies. I have watched a lot of extras on the DVD's and read things here and there, but never a full book. I'll take a look...
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Old 05-23-2013, 01:50 PM   #124
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I actually haven't read a lot of books on the making of certain movies. I have watched a lot of extras on the DVD's and read things here and there, but never a full book. I'll take a look...
I still have the making of TMP in a box somewhere. That is about the only one I have read. I did read Shat's Bio but only because it was a gift.
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Old 05-23-2013, 10:25 PM   #125
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I actually haven't read a lot of books on the making of certain movies. I have watched a lot of extras on the DVD's and read things here and there, but never a full book. I'll take a look...
Shatner's Star Trek Memories and Star Trek Movie Memories are great reads. Really insightful and entertaining stuff.

Nimoy also wrote two books you might find interesting: I Am Not Spock and years later...I Am Spock.
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