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Old 05-12-2013, 11:32 PM   #76
BroncoMan4ever
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i'm been waiting to say this forever.
**** Josh McDaniels! **** Brian Xanders! that pizza ordering mother****er!
**** that entire old regime that ruined my favorite team!

ok my rant is over now. i feel so much better.


although we should thank them for sucking so much that Bowlen and Elway were like "that's enough boys, let the men get to work on fixing this mess you made"
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Old 05-13-2013, 12:01 AM   #77
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Elway smart enough to know you can't plan the qb spot. All you do is grab them and see if they can learn how to play. One thing is for sure if you don't draft them you won't find a good one.

I like the idea of letting young qbs learn under Manning. I also like drafting them often if you see one you think will be an nfl starter. Just finding an NFL starter can net you a first round pick. Thats how valuable they are. If you ended up with 2 of them you ship one off for a high pick.
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:20 AM   #78
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I disagree about shipping off a found QB, at least until you have three good ones on the roster.

Kubiak sat behind Elway for , what, 10 years? And every time he had to play he did a great job, and won almost every time he played. You have to have a backup that is capable of winning on his own, because any QB could go down, and your season with it. There is just too much money at stake to trade away a potential starter, just because you have 2 on the roster.

In the NFL now, starting QBs get paid, and good backups also get theirs. But players want to play, which is the fly in the ointment. I agree you can get a bonanza in draft picks for a QB, but you have to have 2, not just one. A franchise level QB is someone you NEVER let go, unless you have 3.

If both Oz and Dysert are good we can let one go in a year or two, if Manning KEEPS playingfor 3-4 years, and we have another draft pick to replace him. Other than the cap cost the third emergency QB doesn't take a roster spot now, so you can carry three, and should.
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:31 AM   #79
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I disagree about shipping off a found QB, at least until you have three good ones on the roster.

Kubiak sat behind Elway for , what, 10 years? And every time he had to play he did a great job, and won almost every time he played. You have to have a backup that is capable of winning on his own, because any QB could go down, and your season with it. There is just too much money at stake to trade away a potential starter, just because you have 2 on the roster.

In the NFL now, starting QBs get paid, and good backups also get theirs. But players want to play, which is the fly in the ointment. I agree you can get a bonanza in draft picks for a QB, but you have to have 2, not just one. A franchise level QB is someone you NEVER let go, unless you have 3.

If both Oz and Dysert are good we can let one go in a year or two, if Manning KEEPS playingfor 3-4 years, and we have another draft pick to replace him. Other than the cap cost the third emergency QB doesn't take a roster spot now, so you can carry three, and should.
a really highly thought of back up QB can net a 2nd or 3rd round pick. maybe a immediate need player or both(ala Kevin Kolb)

the value to ship them out is too high to just keep them around. especially when players get ridiculous contract offers to become a starter.
you can only sign a player to a 4 year deal after the first round.
cost control wise they will be most valuable to move in the 2nd or 3rd season because you can look at them while still on a rookie contract and then decide if you want to sign him to a new deal.

it's not feasible to hold onto a really highly valued back up unless they just love the team and will wait to start.
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:37 PM   #80
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I think the Dysert pick sets Denver on a great path at QB for years and years to come. At worst, Dysert pushes Osweiler, at best we have another QBOTF. Dysert has real skills. He very possibly could be the face of this franchise in 3-4 years AND the Broncos actually have some time to develop him, something you don't seem to see in the NFL anymore these days.

Sensational pick-up in the 7th round, regardless.
You're absolutely correct. Nobody develops QB's anymore it seems. Most teams draft QB's in rounds 1 or 2 those guys are starting. No development at all. And their 2nd string QB's are usually retreads they hope they can turn around. I really think this learning behind PM for a few years, for both guys, is really going to help them tremendously. I think it's a good plan we have right now.
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Old 05-13-2013, 02:25 PM   #81
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had Plummer gotten a little help in the running game and the defense gotten a little upgraded in the pass rush with the 2 1st rounders we had in 06, he could have gotten the job done. he might not have been a guy we put in position to be our franchise QB for another decade, but he was a good guy for the team for a few more years.


I love this logic.

If only everyone ELSE had done a great/better job, then maybe Plummer wouldn't have to do much of anything to really be a difference maker for a championship run.

I don't know about you, but usually the highest paid guy in the team generally has the most direct responsibility/part in winning.
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:39 PM   #82
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You're absolutely correct. Nobody develops QB's anymore it seems. Most teams draft QB's in rounds 1 or 2 those guys are starting. No development at all. And their 2nd string QB's are usually retreads they hope they can turn around. I really think this learning behind PM for a few years, for both guys, is really going to help them tremendously. I think it's a good plan we have right now.
If you mean low round QBs aren't developed much anymore, I agree. But guys like Discount Double Check were developed. Teams do draft QBs to develop but these guys are usually picked on the first day, Twilight being an example of this. Dysert has a shot at being a viable NFL QB and that will come with development. But you are right, this is more the exception than the rule for late round picks. Another guy that will be interesting to watch is Bray.
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:53 PM   #83
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I love this logic.

If only everyone ELSE had done a great/better job, then maybe Plummer wouldn't have to do much of anything to really be a difference maker for a championship run.

I don't know about you, but usually the highest paid guy in the team generally has the most direct responsibility/part in winning.
Give me a break he had a 13-3 championship game team team that lacked a pass rush and a legit running game.

I hate the thought that a QB is expected to get it done alone. Elway is the only guy I can think of who did that and even he didn't win big until he got some help.

It's a team not the highest paid guy and 52 other dudes.

Hell, if Manning had a decent back that could get a first down in the final minutes of the Baltimore game we'd have another super bowl win.
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:52 PM   #84
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He had a 13-3 championship game team team that lacked a pass rush and a legit running game.
I dunno ... Mike Anderson topped 1,000 and Tatum 900, and Ron Dayne ran all over the Cowboys on Thanksgiving Day. That was also the year the 4 or 5 Browncos joined Trevor Pryce to give us the best D-Line we'd had in nearly a decade.

That 2005 Conference Championship game was a cluster**** from gun to gun, horrible. Lot like the Ravens this year, Steelers in '84 and Jags in '96. Four horror show home playoff losses.

That '05 team was 13-3 with home field for the AFCCG ... and yet three months later we drafted expressly for a fresh roster start.
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Old 05-13-2013, 09:16 PM   #85
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I dunno ... Mike Anderson topped 1,000 and Tatum 900, and Ron Dayne ran all over the Cowboys on Thanksgiving Day. That was also the year the 4 or 5 Browncos joined Trevor Pryce to give us the best D-Line we'd had in nearly a decade.

That 2005 Conference Championship game was a cluster**** from gun to gun, horrible. Lot like the Ravens this year, Steelers in '84 and Jags in '96. Four horror show home playoff losses.

That '05 team was 13-3 with home field for the AFCCG ... and yet three months later we drafted expressly for a fresh roster start.
I just recall our running game seeming really mediocre that season. Could be wrong but it could be a case of Tatum and automatically assuming crappy output.

The DL was vastly improved but we still lacked a true pass rusher. Ben gets hit a few times and we win a super bowl. Pryce led the team in sacks with 4. Not too good in that area

I still believe thatt draft and ensuing decisions were a mistake that ultimately cost the franchise a shot at another Lombardi and Shanahan's job.

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