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Old 05-13-2013, 01:16 PM   #26
houghtam
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And the guy who masterminded it all was....



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Shulman

A Bush appointee!

Good luck, Repugs. You're either going to have to prove that the White House directed this guy to do it, or they were able to get it done without his knowledge...

Or more likely, it was a group of low-level political thugs with a bone to pick, and there is no WH connection whatsoever.
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:24 PM   #27
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And the guy who masterminded it all was....
It's so cute how you guys like to pretend that the masterminding begins and ends in sub-cabinet level mid-management.

There's no way this level of stuff went on without cabinet officials (or even the President) knowing about it.
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:36 PM   #28
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Establishment Republicans dislike the Tea Party fringe nutjobs even more than the Dems do.
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:44 PM   #29
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Boneheaded move by the IRS. There should be hearings on this.just remember righties that OTHER things can get done in congress. the problem with the GOP is that they will use this to distract from everything else and will not get a damn thing done.Also when conservatives and teabaggers cry and moan and b**** about taxes, perhaps they should be subject to a little more scrunity.
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:47 PM   #30
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It's so cute how you guys like to pretend that the masterminding begins and ends in sub-cabinet level mid-management.

There's no way this level of stuff went on without cabinet officials (or even the President) knowing about it.
That was kind of my point. I highly doubt this guy, who was appointed by Bush, was the mastermind, or even complicit. I also doubt if he knew about it, he would be denying it now. The only reason is that he didn't know. So how is it the IRS Commissioner didn't know about it, but the Treasury Dept. (or White House ) did?

It's another instance of inventing a conspiracy and trying to jam that square block through the round hole of logic.
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:56 PM   #31
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And the guy who masterminded it all was....



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Shulman

A Bush appointee!

Good luck, Repugs. You're either going to have to prove that the White House directed this guy to do it, or they were able to get it done without his knowledge...

Or more likely, it was a group of low-level political thugs with a bone to pick, and there is no WH connection whatsoever.

Nice deflection ......

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Old 05-13-2013, 01:57 PM   #32
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Nice deflection ......
Clearly logic is not your strong point.
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Old 05-13-2013, 01:58 PM   #33
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That was kind of my point. I highly doubt this guy, who was appointed by Bush, was the mastermind, or even complicit. I also doubt if he knew about it, he would be denying it now. The only reason is that he didn't know. So how is it the IRS Commissioner didn't know about it, but the Treasury Dept. (or White House ) did?

It's another instance of inventing a conspiracy and trying to jam that square block through the round hole of logic.
One, at this level of government, being appointed by a President does not make you a loyalist to that President. Looks like he served in administrative capacities going all the way back to the Clinton Administration.

And two, at these levels of government, you survive and excel by doing what you're told. There's no way he didn't know. But since this is a career-ending level of allegation, he'll deny knowing anything until he has little other choice.
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Old 05-13-2013, 02:04 PM   #34
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One, at this level of government, being appointed by a President does not make you a loyalist to that President. Looks like he served in administrative capacities going all the way back to the Clinton Administration.

And two, at these levels of government, you survive and excel by doing what you're told. There's no way he didn't know. But since this is a career-ending level of allegation, he'll deny knowing anything until he has little other choice.
Or, like I said, it was some low-level thugs with a bone to pick.

That's what's going to come of this investigation, you watch.

And then all of you will kick and scream about how this was a big coverup and those guys just took the fall for their hero Obama.
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Old 05-13-2013, 02:14 PM   #35
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Or, like I said, it was some low-level thugs with a bone to pick.

That's what's going to come of this investigation, you watch.

And then all of you will kick and scream about how this was a big coverup and those guys just took the fall for their hero Obama.
It's already beyond that question...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...ml?ir=Politics

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Senior Internal Revenue Service officials knew agents were targeting tea party groups as early as 2011, according to a draft of an inspector general's report obtained by The Associated Press that seemingly contradicts public statements by the IRS commissioner.
Now the question becomes what kind of career bureaucrat would stick his neck out to drive a project like this if the administrative environment weren't at least friendly to the idea (if not demanding it directly)
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Old 05-13-2013, 02:32 PM   #36
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It's already beyond that question...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...ml?ir=Politics



Now the question becomes what kind of career bureaucrat would stick his neck out to drive a project like this if the administrative environment weren't at least friendly to the idea (if not demanding it directly)
It's a legit question, but like I said, let there be an investigation, and let it lead where it leads. My greater point is that, just like Benghazi, Boston and on and on, you righties are consistently inventing answers before there are any. It's all a desperate attempt to associate a popular president (and an even more popular presidential candidate) with something unseemly, so you can somehow reverse the electoral direction this country is taking. It's no different than Voter ID laws or swiftboating. You think that somehow if you paint X as a bad guy, early and often, that regardless of what the facts uncover, there will be residual public resentment which will in turn influence the polls.

When all the facts are known and it turns out that neither Clinton nor Obama were at fault for any of these things, do you think the Darrell Issas and Jeff Sessionses and Ted Cruzes and Rand Pauls and John Boehners of the world will apologize? No. Will the talking heads drop it? No. And finally, will any of you conservatives EVER admit there's no there there? No. Two years from now when the 2014 election comes up, every single one of you is going to post as if Obama or Clinton masterminded it all.
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Old 05-13-2013, 02:46 PM   #37
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It's a legit question, but like I said, let there be an investigation, and let it lead where it leads. My greater point is that, just like Benghazi, Boston and on and on, you righties are consistently inventing answers before there are any. It's all a desperate attempt to associate a popular president (and an even more popular presidential candidate) with something unseemly, so you can somehow reverse the electoral direction this country is taking. It's no different than Voter ID laws or swiftboating. You think that somehow if you paint X as a bad guy, early and often, that regardless of what the facts uncover, there will be residual public resentment which will in turn influence the polls.

When all the facts are known and it turns out that neither Clinton nor Obama were at fault for any of these things, do you think the Darrell Issas and Jeff Sessionses and Ted Cruzes and Rand Pauls and John Boehners of the world will apologize? No. Will the talking heads drop it? No. And finally, will any of you conservatives EVER admit there's no there there? No. Two years from now when the 2014 election comes up, every single one of you is going to post as if Obama or Clinton masterminded it all.
I don't think I'd have much of anything to say about Boston, at least as far as high-level administration is concerned. Many things were botched between many different agencies, but stopping shape-shifting threats before they happen is a tough business. And it's run by tons of different people with different perspectives and things get lost in the middle.

Benghazi and this are of a different breed. Incompetence (or in the case of the IRS, likely maliciousness) at the highest levels, covered up by criminal (or near-criminal) lies told both to the American public and to those charged with investigating those accountable.

Together you start to get a sense that this is a purely end-justifies-the-means administration in a very Nixonian sense, which is a real danger in a civil-liberties based society. At the very least you can no longer take a White House denial on any charge to mean much of anything. And that's something they can never earn back.
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:23 PM   #38
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Holy crap. Talk about a bad couple of weeks.

http://www.ap.org/Images/Letter-to-E...cm28-12896.pdf
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Old 05-13-2013, 04:03 PM   #39
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We sold guns to the cartels and some agents got murdered with them.....but nothing to see here. We gave away 100's of millions to companies of people who supported us and they all went bankrupt but it wasn't dirty at all trust us. We lied about Benghazzi but it was only some talking points no big deal. So we left out Al Queda did it and blamed it on a video. The IRS is crawling up the asses of conservative groups and we are all liberals but logically it was Bush's fault!
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:22 PM   #40
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Wow the IRS scandal is blowing up. Now its being reported by the Washington Post it went all the way the heads of the IRS in Washington DC. Also it now looks like the IRS in Orange County CA was doing the same thing.

What a bush league move by the IRS. The media smells blood in the water with all these scadals breaking off. It's going to be interesting to see it all play out.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:36 AM   #41
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Neither am I, the liberal hypocrites. It was them that under Bush and the Patriot Act crapping their pants, telling any and everyone how innocent people would be targeted unfairly and illegally in their minds. Of course now that Obama is president, it isn't such a bad thing anymore. Now the IRS admits to targeting people for political reasons and it's ok. The hypocrisy has gotten to the point of such foolishness that even trying to debate any issue with a liberal is beyond a lost cause. If they will tell you 2 and 2 is 5 when it suits their politics, there is no reason to spend much time with them. They are dead set in their thinking and if they have to distort or as usual, apply their double standards so they can be "right", then they will and do every day, all day. This is why talk radio doesn't work for liberals since hearing what they say and do just makes them sound so incredibly stupid, even to other liberals.
Who is suddenly OK with the Patriot Act? The single largest expansion of government power and infringement of individual liberties in recent memory, that Patriot Act?
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:09 AM   #42
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Who is suddenly OK with the Patriot Act? The single largest expansion of government power and infringement of individual liberties in recent memory, that Patriot Act?
I'm glad a conservative brought that up.

If I'd said anything Pony Boy would be in here again with his "Blame Bush" meme.
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:55 AM   #43
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We should overturn Citizens United and throw out the whole idea of these 501c4s. I don't blame the IRS for scrutinizing them. They need to scrutinize all of them. The whole idea is just more political slime and the selling of government.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:08 AM   #44
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We should overturn Citizens United and throw out the whole idea of these 501c4s. I don't blame the IRS for scrutinizing them. They need to scrutinize all of them. The whole idea is just more political slime and the selling of government.
Just wait 'til Obamacare hands 'em our personal health information. Just imagine all the Govtastic possibilities.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:11 AM   #45
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..and if you think this bullcrap is limited to the IRS, try the EPA:

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Conservative groups seeking information from the Environmental Protection Agency have been routinely hindered by fees normally waived for media and watchdog groups, while fees for more than 90 percent of requests from green groups were waived, according to requests reviewed by the Conservative Enterprise Institute.

CEI reviewed Freedom of Information Act requests sent between January 2012 and this spring from several environmental groups friendly to the EPA’s mission, and several conservative groups, to see how equally the agency applies its fee waiver policy for media and watchdog groups. Government agencies are supposed to waive fees for groups disseminating information for public benefit.
http://washingtonexaminer.com/articl...h5eV72.twitter
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:31 AM   #46
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Is there any guarantee that the IRS would not deny someone health care to Americans based on their beliefs?
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:39 AM   #47
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Is there any guarantee that the IRS would not deny someone health care to Americans based on their beliefs?
Well at some point there's going to have to be some kind of audit process to make sure our current coverage is up to regulatory snuff. But I'm sure that will be easy, transparent, and just like all things IRS.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:48 AM   #48
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:01 AM   #49
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..and if you think this bullcrap is limited to the IRS, try the EPA:



http://washingtonexaminer.com/articl...h5eV72.twitter
Koch brother institution,CEI,isn't exactly a unbiased group,far from actually. They have a vested interest in going after the EPA.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:09 AM   #50
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Stewart nails it again.
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