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Old 05-09-2013, 01:40 PM   #526
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Plus or Minus 7? Why don't you just say "Parts of the 4th Quarter where McCoy still thinks his Mustang Big Power set might work"

If it was close or they were ahead or even tied, you sure as hell know McCoy wasn't spreading things out.

Just think through the logic of what McCoy was doing. Why would McCoy's approach work? RG3 and Cam's coaches are both on record saying they thought spreading things out in shotgun would help those college spread QBs adjust to the NFL. McCoy essentially did the exact opposite (with terrible results) and gets hailed as some kind of genius.

Ironically if not for Tim's strong 4Q bailout performances, Mike McCoy might also be looking for work at this point. His reputation was essentially rescued by the times when his gameplans were thrown in the garbage late in games.
McCoy built an O around Tebow that allowed them to play to his strenghts for the 1st 3 quarters, if the game was close or within reach then they would let him loose late hoping his timing/reads got better and the D's were caught out of position creeping up to the LOS.

It is kinda like a boxer who goes to the body for most of a match then taking more risks in the late rounds trying to get the knockout or points.

In all but the Minn and Pitt games when Timmy had to match score for score early he got blown out, i.e. Pats twice, Detroit, Buff.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:40 PM   #527
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Maybe your overall read is true, but your last line of logic definitely was not.

You or I could step onto an NFL field and give it a go and our chances (however slim) would improve with each opportunity. I had no idea until now that this concept was debatable.
Not everyone improves from a result of repetitiveness. Isn't that what practice is for? Shouldn't the player improve with each opportunity in practice? Jemarcus Russell mark Sanchez and others improve with their opportunities? I think Sanchez is the perfect example. Trots on the field for a while now and had gotten worse. By that logic he should be improving? Or is it cause he's just horrible.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:41 PM   #528
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Irony...Silver's been one of the biggest Tebow Circus ringmasters (for pay) the whole time, now suddenly he wants to wash his hands of any involvement and wonder where it all comes from.

Try to find how many articles he wrote about whether Blaine Gabbert has NFL-level skilz.
It has nothing to do with Silver... if Belichick and another "unnamed NFL HC" both made reference to "the circus" surrounding Tim Tebow, then it would follow that they aren't in agreement with Jay3's assertion that "the circus" is only a myth.

Look, it doesn't matter how many "real chances" he's given if he cannot consistently put the football where it has to be. No team is going to be interested in an inconsistent quarterback who also generates controversy.

It isn't even worth the couple of seconds it would take to load up Google and look up what Silver has said about Blaine Gabbert.... "DOOOOOOOOOON'T CAAAAAAAAAARE!"
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:44 PM   #529
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Interesting... was just discussing with Jay3 a page or so back whether or not the circus exists. These quotes would seem to rebut his assertion that the circus is a mere myth.
It's that round of articles that I'm pushing back against -- the new thing is a round of echo-chamber articles saying Tebow's fans are the reason he's not an NFL quarterback. It's become easy and fashionable to say. But the distinction that is important involves the role of ESPN and the media.

I do believe everything about the media "circus," and it is caused because of Tebow's huge numbers of fans and detractors (high hits on articles that mention him, high ratings on shows that mention him). What I'm saying is that it is not the conduct or attitude of the fans that is the "circus." That is not some tweets or something reaching the ears of coaches and GM's. It is the media frenzy. I'm pushing back against the overblown notion that "fans" are to blame for something.

To give a concrete example of the distinction I'm drawing -- ESPN set up shop at the Jets training camp last year. That was indeed a difficult environment, and "circus" is a fair adjective to describe. They did it for ratings, and it is because of his popularity (and the fact that even people who don't like him are for some reason interested in him). But that's not the same thing as bad conduct by his fans, whether we're talking about internet posts, tweets, or even in person conduct at games and practices.
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:52 PM   #530
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It's that round of articles that I'm pushing back against -- the new thing is a round of echo-chamber articles saying Tebow's fans are the reason he's not an NFL quarterback. It's become easy and fashionable to say. But the distinction that is important involves the role of ESPN and the media.

I do believe everything about the media "circus," and it is caused because of Tebow's huge numbers of fans and detractors (high hits on articles that mention him, high ratings on shows that mention him). What I'm saying is that it is not the conduct or attitude of the fans that is the "circus." That is not some tweets or something reaching the ears of coaches and GM's. It is the media frenzy. I'm pushing back against the overblown notion that "fans" are to blame for something.

To give a concrete example of the distinction I'm drawing -- ESPN set up shop at the Jets training camp last year. That was indeed a difficult environment, and "circus" is a fair adjective to describe. They did it for ratings, and it is because of his popularity (and the fact that even people who don't like him are for some reason interested in him). But that's not the same thing as bad conduct by his fans, whether we're talking about internet posts, tweets, or even in person conduct at games and practices.

Who's to say tebow doesn't want that? Trademarking Tebowing and having press conferences. Commercial and talk show appearances. Religious appearances. Etc etc. you can't say tebow isn't at least part of the reason for a circus following. He raises inspiration and religious faith in people. A successful role model is one who's constantly in the face of America gets his point acrossed by being relative in the news. There's nothing wrong with that. It's better to hear his story than Titus young.

You think he's happy or sad about being rated as most inspirational? That doesn't happen without ESPN cameras and the media.

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Old 05-09-2013, 01:57 PM   #531
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Who's to say tebow doesn't want that? Trademarking Tebowing and having press conferences. Commercial and talk show appearances. Religious appearances. Etc etc. you can't say tebow isn't at least part of the reason for a circus following. He raises inspiration and religious faith in people. A successful role model is one who's constantly in the face of America gets his point acrossed by being relative in the news. There's nothing wrong with that. It's better to hear his story than Titus young.

You think he's happy or sad about being rated as most inspirational? That doesn't happen without ESPN cameras and the media.

Whose reality TV show would you be more likely to watch? Tim Tebow or Titus Young?
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:00 PM   #532
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Whose reality TV show would you be more likely to watch? Tim Tebow or Titus Young?
Tebow. I happen to agree with alot of his views/beliefs off the field and would want my family watching it.

I'd rather watch the history channel than reality TV smut.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:02 PM   #533
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It has nothing to do with Silver... if Belichick and another "unnamed NFL HC" both made reference to "the circus" surrounding Tim Tebow, then it would follow that they aren't in agreement with Jay3's assertion that "the circus" is only a myth.:
Jay never said the Circus was a myth. He said it's a MEDIA circus. Michael Silver claiming it's because of Tebow's "Cult Following" fresh off of his Tebow-article-a-week marathon he just finished running is what's funny here.

I don't mind a guy stirring the pot, so long as he doesn't spend 3 years doing it, then step away only long enough to shout out "Who the hell keeps stirring this damn pot?!?!"
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:12 PM   #534
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Jay never said the Circus was a myth. He said it's a MEDIA circus. Michael Silver claiming it's because of Tebow's "Cult Following" fresh off of his Tebow-article-a-week marathon he just finished running is what's funny here.

I don't mind a guy stirring the pot, so long as he doesn't spend 3 years doing it, then step away only long enough to shout out "Who the hell keeps stirring this damn pot?!?!"
If not for the nutty fan base ESPN wouldn't give a **** about giving tebow any air time.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:20 PM   #535
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If not for the nutty fan base ESPN wouldn't give a **** about giving tebow any air time.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't ESPN follow Tim around pre-draft for a whole Tebow special? Is that normal? Was that fan driven as well? Before he was even in the NFL?
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:24 PM   #536
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Tebow. I happen to agree with alot of his views/beliefs off the field and would want my family watching it.

I'd rather watch the history channel than reality TV smut.
Sounds like the most boring reality show of all time.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:26 PM   #537
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Who's to say tebow doesn't want that? Trademarking Tebowing and having press conferences. Commercial and talk show appearances. Religious appearances. Etc etc. you can't say tebow isn't at least part of the reason for a circus following. He raises inspiration and religious faith in people. A successful role model is one who's constantly in the face of America gets his point acrossed by being relative in the news. There's nothing wrong with that. It's better to hear his story than Titus young.

You think he's happy or sad about being rated as most inspirational? That doesn't happen without ESPN cameras and the media.
That could be -- and that's the interesting phenomenon, to me. Is this guy so popular (and/or polarizing) that he's more hassle than he's worth?

That is a different proposition than "this guy has fans who start doing stuff and saying things, and we can't take it." It's an important distinction to me, for obvious reasons.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:27 PM   #538
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Fun stat of the day.

In 12 4th quarters in 2011 (When Mastermind McCoy's scheme got tossed to the curb) Tim Tebow threw for more yards than RG3 and Russel Wilson did in a full season's worth of 4th quarters last year. And he was only 100 yards shy of Luck (who also had 16 games)

If Tim Tebow literally can't throw a football, how are these slugs considered promising NFL QB's?
Why is he on the street then and his phone is only ringing to see if he will play TE or FB? Why did McCoy get a HC job? It seems to me you think your argument is right and NFL execs are completely wrong. Granted they make millions doing their jobs and your an internet message board hack.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:30 PM   #539
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If not for the nutty fan base ESPN wouldn't give a **** about giving tebow any air time.
They don't require a viewer or listener be "nutty." They just require a viewer or listener, in huge numbers if possible. It is precisely the interest factor (positive or negative) which causes the phenomenon.

As I said before, whenever you have large numbers of any population, you get proportionately large numbers of every type in the sample. Large numbers of reasonable people, large numbers of only-slightly-interested people, large numbers of fat people, skinny people . . you get the idea. And that includes large numbers of rude people, crazy people, etc.

That's the thing about understanding "crowd noise" in general, especially on the internet.
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:47 PM   #540
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Why is he on the street then and his phone is only ringing to see if he will play TE or FB? Why did McCoy get a HC job? It seems to me you think your argument is right and NFL execs are completely wrong. Granted they make millions doing their jobs and your an internet message board hack.
Josh McD got a HC gig once from some dumb team. And he's still yet to sit out a season, looking for work.

Anyway, you were saying?
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Old 05-09-2013, 02:47 PM   #541
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Sounds like the most boring reality show of all time.
It very well could be boring. Certainly wont see him jumping fences and running from cops. Or doinking bronzed chivettes at the club Drinkin ace of spades. I don't think someone who's boring would garner so much media attention and cameras though. America's TV choices aren't all that smart either. They'd rather watch honey booboo slammin down pancakes than something educational or inspirational.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:09 PM   #542
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It very well could be boring. Certainly wont see him jumping fences and running from cops. Or doinking bronzed gibronettes at the club Drinkin ace of spades. I don't think someone who's boring would garner so much media attention and cameras though. America's TV choices aren't all that smart though. They'd rather watch honey booboo slammin down pancakes than something educational or inspirational.
Tim Tebow isn't inherently interesting. In fact, he seems like a fairly dull guy who, while not DUMB, isn't the sharpest pencil in the box. If you've ever seen him interviewed, he really doesn't have much to say other than "im excited."

What IS interesting about him is the fervor around him, which solely has to do with his christianity and ability on the football field (for good and bad). Factionalism around him occured after his senior season because two camps stood their ground: One said he cant play at all, and the other said he's a special talent that will change the game.

Because of the 24 hour sports newscycle and social media, people kept doubling down on their opinions about him, leading to more and more pointless arguments (which is what society is wont to do these days.) Soon, the argument about whether he can or cannot play became much bigger than him as a person. If Tim Tebow played like Peyton Manning, there'd be much less interest around him simply because there would be nothing to argue about.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:22 PM   #543
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Josh McD got a HC gig once from some dumb team. And he's still yet to sit out a season, looking for work.

Anyway, you were saying?
So you are smarter than NFL executives? You still have answered the question why Tebow in on the streets. He couldn't beat Sanchez or Mcilroy for even a garbage time start.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:23 PM   #544
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Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't ESPN follow Tim around pre-draft for a whole Tebow special? Is that normal? Was that fan driven as well? Before he was even in the NFL?
If there was no market for it, they wouldn't have aired it. Period.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:35 PM   #545
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So you are smarter than NFL executives? You still have answered the question why Tebow in on the streets. He couldn't beat Sanchez or Mcilroy for even a garbage time start.
Foxy gave him 11 'garbage time' starts. Turns out he helped turn them into something else.

So anyway, are you saying (#6 Tat) Rexy > Foxy?

Would you have rather had Sanchez QBing the Broncs in 2011? Your logic cuts both ways. "They have a job in the NFL and you don't!" could be used to halt just about every fan criticism ever spoken. Besides, weren't you one of the guys calling for FO heads to roll after the KO Oakland debacle of 2011?

Maybe that was someone else... I'm not sure. Anyway once McCoy gets ****canned, am I redeemed, or how does that work?

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Old 05-09-2013, 03:47 PM   #546
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Foxy gave him 11 'garbage time' starts. Turns out he helped turn them into something else.

So anyway, are you saying (#6 Tat) Rexy > Foxy?

Would you have rather had Sanchez QBing the Broncs in 2011? Your logic cuts both ways. "They have a job in the NFL and you don't!" could be used to halt just about every fan criticism ever spoken. Besides, weren't you one of the guys calling for FO heads to roll after the KO Oakland debacle of 2011?

Maybe that was someone else... I'm not sure. Anyway once McCoy gets ****canned, am I redeemed, or how does that work?
I sure did I said it would take a QB to get this messed turned around. They went and got one. Sanchez would get picked up right away and he is crap too. Why don't you just admit you have been wrong this whole time about TT.
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Old 05-09-2013, 04:58 PM   #547
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It's that round of articles that I'm pushing back against -- the new thing is a round of echo-chamber articles saying Tebow's fans are the reason he's not an NFL quarterback. It's become easy and fashionable to say. But the distinction that is important involves the role of ESPN and the media.

I do believe everything about the media "circus," and it is caused because of Tebow's huge numbers of fans and detractors (high hits on articles that mention him, high ratings on shows that mention him). What I'm saying is that it is not the conduct or attitude of the fans that is the "circus." That is not some tweets or something reaching the ears of coaches and GM's. It is the media frenzy. I'm pushing back against the overblown notion that "fans" are to blame for something.

To give a concrete example of the distinction I'm drawing -- ESPN set up shop at the Jets training camp last year. That was indeed a difficult environment, and "circus" is a fair adjective to describe. They did it for ratings, and it is because of his popularity (and the fact that even people who don't like him are for some reason interested in him). But that's not the same thing as bad conduct by his fans, whether we're talking about internet posts, tweets, or even in person conduct at games and practices.
The reasons why Tebow's phone isn't ringing off the hook now that he's been released... in order:

1) He cannot consistently put the football where it needs to go (he does not have the skill set he needs for the NFL and would need a lot of work to get to where he might have those skills).
2) "The circus" - Because he is a polarizing player, his presence on a football roster = instantaneous controversy. Like it or not, it's there and it's a distraction that no team really needs/wants.

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Jay never said the Circus was a myth. He said it's a MEDIA circus. Michael Silver claiming it's because of Tebow's "Cult Following" fresh off of his Tebow-article-a-week marathon he just finished running is what's funny here.

I don't mind a guy stirring the pot, so long as he doesn't spend 3 years doing it, then step away only long enough to shout out "Who the hell keeps stirring this damn pot?!?!"
It's a combination, Beavis... yes, the media is the bigger part of it, but his polarizing effect on the fanbase also does factor into it. Any time that fans are emotionally invested enough to personally attack... and openly wish harm to befall... other fans and/or the front office personnel and professional NFL coaches... for no other reason than that they aren't convinced that "Tebow will revolutionize the QB position in the NFL" then there's a big problem. This is a Bieber-esque obsession; not typical football fan behavior.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:45 PM   #548
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Tebow is done in the NFL, i never believed those stories saying the Patriots might use him as a role player.

Tebow was so bad as a QB in that Broncos-Patriots playoff game the Patriots players were laughing at him on the sidelines during the game, that's just sad.
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Old 05-10-2013, 08:37 AM   #549
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Old 05-10-2013, 04:39 PM   #550
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It's a shame Tebow is probably done in the NFL. He was fun to watch. I do feel bad that both the Broncos and Jets were terrified of him succeeding and garnering national popular support. Nobody wants to bet their jobs on his long term success, I get it, and in the same role, I might do the same. But, still, that really sucks for Tebow whom busts his butt and just wants a chance to continue to start. I'd rather see him get a full year and just flame out of the league, than be railroaded out even though he actually had success in his limited opportunities.
100% correct.

Don't worry, the CFL will give him a chance. Tebow will dominate there and break every single TE record in that league.
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