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Old 05-04-2013, 10:08 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by Bmore Manning View Post
I wish we knew if Billab**** really was high on Webster as has been reported and intended to take him. Remember the next pick was a DB from Rutgers.. So maybe he was high on their board. I believe in value, but I also believe that if that's your guy and you value him, you take him where you feel comfortable doing so..

Alford in the second, Franklin in the fourth, sounds great in theory, especially after the fact. But we don't know how anyone will produce..
Agreed with the bold. Also, I like Franklin, but he seems like a "Hilman type" to me, so why bother? I think Ball is just what the doctor ordered.

And, can Alford come in and beat DRC to start this year? If not, then again, why bother? I don't believe Webster was drafted to start this year. I think he was drafted for next year and/or beyond.
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Old 05-04-2013, 10:54 PM   #177
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I wish we knew if Billab**** really was high on Webster as has been reported and intended to take him. Remember the next pick was a DB from Rutgers.. So maybe he was high on their board. I believe in value, but I also believe that if that's your guy and you value him, you take him where you feel comfortable doing so..

Alford in the second, Franklin in the fourth, sounds great in theory, especially after the fact. But we don't know how anyone will produce..
1. Bellicheat is one of the worst Secondary drafters in the entire NFL. He's taken 7 DB's in the top 2 rounds in the past 7 years, and none of them have amounted to anything.

2. I just thought what Dempsey said was disingenious because who knew that Franklin would be available at #120? Nobody. He was projected as a top 50 pick. You pick the BPA at a position of need on your board and live with it.

3. The 2nd and 3rd round picks (Ball and Webster) are pretty pivotal to the rest of the draft. If the Broncos would have used their 4th to trade up (at either #58 or #90), they wouldn't have gotten Quanterus Smith...I ain't down with that. So I'm happy with Kayvon Webster, he's a good dude, he's got all the measurables, and some good skills. I think he'll be better than Omar Bolden (which isn't saying much at this point).

Like Russell Peters would say, "Take it and go!"

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Old 05-05-2013, 03:56 AM   #178
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I've said it a million times.

We signed Manning. That means you don't need to use a high pick on a QB. You get a FA to back him up and use a mid-round / late-round pick pick on developing a guy.

For a team who consistently talks about being one or two players away and then uses their second round pick on a QB. . . lol. Bull****. "BPA" my ass. I guess we will agree to disagree on this one. I want Denver to start getting players in the second through fourth rounds that do more than pinch hit every once and a while. I don't expect fourth rounders to be starters, but I do expect second and third round picks to contribute more than they have.
Denver signed Manning who had played in over a year and at the time of the signing he couldn't even throw a football.

Excuse me haven't we been through this **** a hundred times??
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:06 AM   #179
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Agreed with the bold. Also, I like Franklin, but he seems like a "Hilman type" to me, so why bother? I think Ball is just what the doctor ordered.

And, can Alford come in and beat DRC to start this year? If not, then again, why bother? I don't believe Webster was drafted to start this year. I think he was drafted for next year and/or beyond.
I heard big talk about Franklin, and how he was possibly a first rounder, but I thought the whole time, he's a slightly more physical Hillman type running back. He has drawn comparisons to Warrick Dunn, mostly because Mora coached both and it's not hard to draw that correlation, but both have/had some speed, solid hands, pass protection skills, some toughness.

GB will probably use him as a third down back, or a change of pace back to Lacy, if Lacy recovers. But he will be a change of pace back to Benson for now.

So I agree I'm not sure there's a huge difference in Hillman and Franklin. While there are differences between the two but not power back to scat back differences. If we passed on Ball who was rumored to be GB's target and they traded down thinking they could get him, then I would have preferred Taylor in the fourth.

1. Williams DT
2. Alford CB
3.
4. Stephan Taylor RB
5. Quantereus Smith DE

That would have been a quality haul.. Ideally with a safety in the third, though I would have preferred Cyprien in the first and Brandon Williams in the third.

And Alford looks like he has great potential, but it depends on what DRC shows up to play, DRC from Philly or AZ? Even if it was Philly's, Alford would have to still work to beat out DRC and it would still probably take time to do so..
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:15 AM   #180
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1. Bellicheat is one of the worst Secondary drafters in the entire NFL. He's taken 7 DB's in the top 2 rounds in the past 7 years, and none of them have amounted to anything.

2. I just thought what Dempsey said was disingenious because who knew that Franklin would be available at #120? Nobody. He was projected as a top 50 pick. You pick the BPA at a position of need on your board and live with it.

3. The 2nd and 3rd round picks (Ball and Webster) are pretty pivotal to the rest of the draft. If the Broncos would have used their 4th to trade up (at either #58 or #90), they wouldn't have gotten Quanterus Smith...I ain't down with that. So I'm happy with Kayvon Webster, he's a good dude, he's got all the measurables, and some good skills. I think he'll be better than Omar Bolden (which isn't saying much at this point).

Like Russell Peters would say, "Take it and go!"
Well maybe this wound have been a pick he nailed on a DB, we will just be the fortunate beneficiaries. As far as Franklin, I'm not sure he is the complimentary piece to Hillman that we needed..
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:49 AM   #181
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Denver signed Manning who had played in over a year and at the time of the signing he couldn't even throw a football.

Excuse me haven't we been through this **** a hundred times??
Manning was throwing when we signed him. What Denver did last year taking Osweiler instead of a prospect who could contribute right away was mind-boggling. FWIW, I like Dysert way more than Osweiler.
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Old 05-05-2013, 01:39 PM   #182
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Manning was throwing when we signed him. What Denver did last year taking Osweiler instead of a prospect who could contribute right away was mind-boggling. FWIW, I like Dysert way more than Osweiler.
part of him signing with us was due to us having a legit plan in place to have a true back up QB and potential QBOTF in place.
this was endorsed and signed off on by Manning.

we needed a QB to groom, we got a potential franchise guy in the 2nd round and he's being groomed under Manning. i don't see the issue.
whether we took him in the early 2nd or late 2nd, or 3rd is irrelevant.
we wanted him, he was the top QB left on our board, we drafted him and Peyton was on board with it.

the only people who it was mind boggling to where those who didn't pay attention to the amount of time Elway spent scouting Oz or that thought he shouldn't take a QB.
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Old 05-05-2013, 01:40 PM   #183
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Manning was throwing when we signed him. What Denver did last year taking Osweiler instead of a prospect who could contribute right away was mind-boggling. FWIW, I like Dysert way more than Osweiler.
Clearly you have an easily boggled mind.
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Old 05-05-2013, 01:59 PM   #184
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Manning was throwing when we signed him. What Denver did last year taking Osweiler instead of a prospect who could contribute right away was mind-boggling. FWIW, I like Dysert way more than Osweiler.
i didn't notice this part before. clearly you have some issues with Oz.
he more than likely would have been the 1st QB off the board had he gone back to ASU.
we landed a potential top 5 pick in the 2nd round because he came out a year too early. but you like a QB that fell to the 7th round over him?

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Old 05-05-2013, 02:14 PM   #185
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Osweiler a top 5 pick? That's funny. You obviously never watched him play. Not even close to a top 5 pick. Ever.
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Old 05-05-2013, 02:30 PM   #186
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Osweiler a top 5 pick? That's funny. You obviously never watched him play. Not even close to a top 5 pick. Ever.
I watched EJ manual play. His game did not scream First round pick.
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Old 05-05-2013, 02:41 PM   #187
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Osweiler a top 5 pick? That's funny. You obviously never watched him play. Not even close to a top 5 pick. Ever.
i watched a lot of his games at ASU. i wanted the Broncos to draft him.
he had maturity issues at ASU(especially with Erickson) but he's a great talent and was seen as a 1st round pick had he gone back. he was talked about as a potential last first last season but Weeden passed him up in the overall scouting process due to red flags.

if Oz had gone back to ASU and had improved just slightly under Graham and his staff he would have gone top 5. he would have been the top QB on the draft board and his size, frame and potential would have likely gotten him drafted by a QB needy team.

he would have been the only full on pro style QB with additional potential and projectability. all the other top QB's regressed badly and had to return to school or got drafted low.

the big time QB's were supposed to be Barkley,Thomas,Glennon,Bray,Manuel,Mettenberger and Murray.
Barkley was supposed to solidify #1 overall, Thomas was supposed to end up as the #2 QB and Murray was supposed to be #3 unless Glennon surpassed him.
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:03 PM   #188
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Considering the overall poor showing of qb prospects this year, I don't believe saying OZ is an early 1st round pick is out of the question. Top 5 may be debateable, but 1st round isn't.
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:40 PM   #189
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i didn't notice this part before. clearly you have some issues with Oz.
he more than likely would have been the 1st QB off the board had he gone back to ASU.
we landed a potential top 5 pick in the 2nd round because he came out a year too early. but you like a QB that fell to the 7th round over him?

I think Dysert has better mechanics at this point in time than Osweiler does and has a strong arm and the mental ability to succeed in the NFL. He is not without his faults, but I think he is a great fit for what we are doing here and am hopeful that between him and Brock, we have our guy for the future. Nevertheless, I expect Denver to always be looking for a mid-to-late round signal caller as long as Elway is here and we have Manning for them to learn under.
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Old 05-05-2013, 04:28 PM   #190
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Well maybe this wound have been a pick he nailed on a DB, we will just be the fortunate beneficiaries. As far as Franklin, I'm not sure he is the complimentary piece to Hillman that we needed..
Complimentary piece to Hillman? Hillman is a complimentary piece to others (if you can even say that). They're not a complimentary piece to him.
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Old 05-05-2013, 04:51 PM   #191
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Complimentary piece to Hillman? Hillman is a complimentary piece to others (if you can even say that). They're not a complimentary piece to him.
Your taking it out of the simple complex, what's complimentary to a scat back? A powerful downhill runner.. It doesn't matter which order you say which. We know Hillmans not our feature RB..
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Old 05-05-2013, 04:56 PM   #192
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As for Webster, it kind of seems like this is a reaction to what Torrey Smith did to Champ in the playoffs. Torrey Smith was also kind of an athlete with speed when he entered the league. Hopefully Webster won't walk off the field with huge clumps of grass in his facemask as Smith is running into the endzone.
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:09 PM   #193
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Osweiler a top 5 pick? That's funny. You obviously never watched him play. Not even close to a top 5 pick. Ever.
yerner, if you go to Dove Valley Elway is there from 0700 to 1700 and HE WILL KICK YOUR ASS for saying that.

Really, I don't have a problem with the Osweiler pick at #58, you have to hedge your bets with the QB position. The transition from one good/great QB to another has been a terrible situation for many many many teams, so hopefully Denver won't have to go through that wasteland. And Dysert with a 7th-rounder is another hedge that hopefully pans out long term.
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:10 PM   #194
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I think Dysert has better mechanics at this point in time than Osweiler does and has a strong arm and the mental ability to succeed in the NFL. He is not without his faults, but I think he is a great fit for what we are doing here and am hopeful that between him and Brock, we have our guy for the future. Nevertheless, I expect Denver to always be looking for a mid-to-late round signal caller as long as Elway is here and we have Manning for them to learn under.
i'm really excited about Dysert but i wouldn't go as far to say his mechanics are better. both have issues with their mechanics but Brock's had more to do with his height and arm angle.
hopefully both do well and help us maintain our level of competitiveness once Peyton retires.

i do agree that Elway will look at QB's in each draft and depending on value he will likely take one.
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:16 PM   #195
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I watched EJ manual play. His game did not scream First round pick.
Manuel is supposed to be the next Kaepernick I guess. Trouble is, Kaepernick was a four year starter in college, Manuel only has about 10-12 games as a starter.
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:25 PM   #196
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I find it funny that ppl are still judging Oz by his mechanics at AZ when if reality he's had a year of working on his mechanics and learning under Manning but some 7th round QB is better than Oz like Brock has been sitting on his ass when in fact he was the backup QB for Manning for about 80% of the year. You don't unseat the incumbent even if it was Hanie without faith from the coaching staff

Fact is no one knows right now what Oz looks like until preseason when he will be taking a majority of the snaps
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Old 05-05-2013, 05:28 PM   #197
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Manuel is supposed to be the next Kaepernick I guess. Trouble is, Kaepernick was a four year starter in college, Manuel only has about 10-12 games as a starter.
in fairness to Manuel, he was playing behind the #12 pick in Ponder.
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:05 PM   #198
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As for Webster, it kind of seems like this is a reaction to what Torrey Smith did to Champ in the playoffs. Torrey Smith was also kind of an athlete with speed when he entered the league. Hopefully Webster won't walk off the field with huge clumps of grass in his facemask as Smith is running into the endzone.
I am willing to bet it had more to do with keeping Tony Carter as far away from the field as physically possible in 2013, which I wholeheartedly agree with.
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Old 05-05-2013, 06:43 PM   #199
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Manuel is supposed to be the next Kaepernick I guess. Trouble is, Kaepernick was a four year starter in college, Manuel only has about 10-12 games as a starter.
Except he isn't as athletic as Kaepernick, but he does have good athletic ability.

On the other hand, Manuel started 31 games and won 25 of them with the Seminoles. He put it together this year. Had a bad showing or two, but he really improved. I thought he was Top 50 worthy and would go to Buffalo or someone at the top of round two. It was surprising to see him go that high. Then again, he is smart, a good leader and has experience in a pro-style offense that has prepared him well for the NFL. I think he will do fine.
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Old 05-05-2013, 07:11 PM   #200
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Brock is younger than Manuel and already has a year as PFM understudy.
Can't wait to see the kid grow this preason.

I love what Elway has done with the QB position. A God as your #1 and two young, big, strong-armed QBs to compete and see what cream rises to the top.
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