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Old 05-02-2013, 12:53 PM   #26
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Actually, they got Dysert once Caldwell started b****ing about not being invited by Manning to Duke for offseason workouts. Guess who is going to be playing catch with Dysert over at North Tullupu Community College next week?
I googled "North Tullupu Community College" and the result brought me to this thread.

I see what you did there.
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:56 PM   #27
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Manning is not the sort of QB backups "learn" behind.
it's been widely reported that Manning had no interest in teaching his backups while in Indy. it wasn't that he couldn't teach, he didn't want to teach because he was so into his own routine and getting his reps that he showed no interest in it.

if they watched and learned from what he did than so be it.

it's a bit different in Denver. he actually wants to teach and have the back ups learn.
before he didn't give a **** about the back ups as he was all dialed in to getting the team on his wavelength. now he's more receptive to teaching, as has been noted by Brock on many occasions when he's talked about Manning teaching him things.
plus, in Indy they gave him two crappy 6th round picks that everyone knew were nothing more than camp fodder.

one of the main reasons he was concerned with who the back up would be here and to teach them was due to what happened in Indy. he felt horrible that his teammates had to suffer through that 2 win season and never wanted a team to have to go through that again.
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:14 PM   #28
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Teaching is just another skill. Being great at something doesn't mean one automatically knows how to teach it to others. And, yeah, Manning has a history of not really reaching out to his backups. The same could be said for a number of great QBs past and present. That said, I still think Osweiler will get a shot at starting. I wouldn't be surprised if Denver jumps high on a QB though in 2014, like what was done with Cutler.
I think Manning's history with Indy proves you are correct in that he wasn't known for being a teacher, he just wanted to win. But I think that Manning actually requested that the Broncos have a plan, that is, his replacement in house as part of the agreement to play with the Broncos. Manning is all on board with the teaching part as he knows his career is at an end, at least, this is how I understand it.
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:24 PM   #29
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I remember an Oz fluff piece last pre-season where Manning supposedly stopped the tape and started quizzing Brock with what he should do in that game situation.

Sounds like pretty good teaching to me.
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:37 PM   #30
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Manning is not the sort of QB backups "learn" behind.
Jim Sorgi was an OK back-up appearing in 16 total games as a Colt, completing 63.5% of his passes, for 929 yards with 6 TD's and 1 INT. He had an excellent grasp of the offense but hardly played due to Manning basically being injury free.

To claim Manning never wanted to or even attempted to teach his understudy is just some bull**** myth...just because Painter was a rock, doesn't mean all of the Colt's back-ups were.

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Old 05-02-2013, 04:54 PM   #31
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I still hate the Osweiler pick. I just don't see anything about the guy that screams franchise QB. I honestly think I like Dysert more. I hope I'm wrong though. Dysert is much better than your average 7th round QB but it still probably bodes ill for us if the 7th rounder turns out better than the 2nd rounder, unless he magically turns out to be the next Tom Brady.
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Old 05-02-2013, 07:26 PM   #32
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I still hate the Osweiler pick. I just don't see anything about the guy that screams franchise QB. I honestly think I like Dysert more. I hope I'm wrong though. Dysert is much better than your average 7th round QB but it still probably bodes ill for us if the 7th rounder turns out better than the 2nd rounder, unless he magically turns out to be the next Tom Brady.
Nope. Sunk cost. If you tell me I can turn a late 2nd and a 7th round pick into a franchise quarterback, I'll be ecstatic.
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Old 05-02-2013, 08:46 PM   #33
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Bullhead City eh? My grandparents have lived there for about 30 years now. Use to go there every summer as a kid. Real cool place, I just couldn't take the heat. Anyway, welcome aboard. Hopefully Oz will be here a good 15 years and has a great career here.

Am I the only one that thinks that mountain is giving me the finger?
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Old 05-02-2013, 08:55 PM   #34
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I remember reading reports during last year's TC that Manning would play defense(kinda) and watch the other qbs eyes in 7 on 7s to see how they were going through their progressions and telling when they should be looking off the safety, etc...

I think Manning is more than willing to help out Oz and now Dysert when he can
I heard he was notorious in Indy for taking all the snaps in practice, but that doesnt appear to be the case here
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:18 PM   #35
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Not to be argumentative....but what have you seen of Oz since last preseason? All I've seen is a bunch of handoffs and kneeldowns.
Maybe this is why I haven't found much confidence he will be QBOTF.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:18 PM   #36
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:30 PM   #37
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I still hate the Osweiler pick. I just don't see anything about the guy that screams franchise QB. I honestly think I like Dysert more. I hope I'm wrong though. Dysert is much better than your average 7th round QB but it still probably bodes ill for us if the 7th rounder turns out better than the 2nd rounder, unless he magically turns out to be the next Tom Brady.
I do too. But I don't see how it bodes ill for us even if Dysert performs better than Osweiler, as our QBOTF. Whatever helps the Broncos is great. Every team gets a bad pick, each year. Better than 3/4 or even the whole draft being **** like in the past.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:06 PM   #38
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people who complain about the Osweiler pick need to understand some things.
Manning wanted a legit back up and a QB of the future on the roster to avoid what happened in Indy.
Elway nor Manning wanted to get caught with their pants down in case Manning couldn't play out the life of his contract.
It was not feasible to wait on the 2013 or 2014 draft to get a QBOTF to sit behind Manning and learn.
The front office and scouting staff graded Osweiler out very highly and more than likely higher than any QB in this past draft(it's not guess work or conjecture, Elway said as much with his comments on this years QB crop)

now knowing all this and still complaining is wildly foolish.
the assumption is that if not Osweiler then we would have taken a LB or RB instead and someone who could have been a instant starter.
this is not a viable opinion to have because no one knows what the draft board looked like.
Elway has gone against the grain of popular opinion in every draft he's done with the Broncos.
from trading back and drafting Wolfe to taking Orlando Franklin over others who were viewed as less of a reach to taking Montee Ball over Eddie Lacy to saving money and cutting Doom instead of keeping him.

had we not taken Osweiler in the 2nd last year we then would be forced to either trade for and sacrifice a future pick or use 2.5-3.5 mil on a quality back up.
which is cap space that could be used for more important needs.
we lose a year or more of developmental time for the next QBOTF due to taking him a year later or having a highly paid vet in front of him in addition to Manning.

we can now take QB's as a luxury pick and we will have valuable assets in the future that can be dealt for picks or to address needs on the team.
delaying the acquisition of a QB draftee or waiting til a later round doesn't help us.
the grade on the QB is probably not as high as Osweiler's, the staff likely doesn't have the same amount of faith in them and then we're stuck being forced to draft a QB instead of taking one for value purposes.

plan A and win now doesn't mean you draft solely based upon the needs of one season.
that gets your fired.
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Old 05-03-2013, 06:03 AM   #39
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people who complain about the Osweiler pick need to understand some things.
Manning wanted a legit back up and a QB of the future on the roster to avoid what happened in Indy.
Elway nor Manning wanted to get caught with their pants down in case Manning couldn't play out the life of his contract.
It was not feasible to wait on the 2013 or 2014 draft to get a QBOTF to sit behind Manning and learn.
The front office and scouting staff graded Osweiler out very highly and more than likely higher than any QB in this past draft(it's not guess work or conjecture, Elway said as much with his comments on this years QB crop)

now knowing all this and still complaining is wildly foolish.
the assumption is that if not Osweiler then we would have taken a LB or RB instead and someone who could have been a instant starter.
this is not a viable opinion to have because no one knows what the draft board looked like.
Elway has gone against the grain of popular opinion in every draft he's done with the Broncos.
from trading back and drafting Wolfe to taking Orlando Franklin over others who were viewed as less of a reach to taking Montee Ball over Eddie Lacy to saving money and cutting Doom instead of keeping him.

had we not taken Osweiler in the 2nd last year we then would be forced to either trade for and sacrifice a future pick or use 2.5-3.5 mil on a quality back up.
which is cap space that could be used for more important needs.
we lose a year or more of developmental time for the next QBOTF due to taking him a year later or having a highly paid vet in front of him in addition to Manning.

we can now take QB's as a luxury pick and we will have valuable assets in the future that can be dealt for picks or to address needs on the team.
delaying the acquisition of a QB draftee or waiting til a later round doesn't help us.
the grade on the QB is probably not as high as Osweiler's, the staff likely doesn't have the same amount of faith in them and then we're stuck being forced to draft a QB instead of taking one for value purposes.

plan A and win now doesn't mean you draft solely based upon the needs of one season.
that gets your fired.
I agree with most of this. Osweiller's haters don't produce a plan for grooming a backup and obviously Caleb Haney wasn't the guy. Elway made a point of saying this guy has a very high football IQ that manifested itself after only one year starting in college, and I can't think of a better trait for Manning's backup to have than that. I don't get the hate on him though...he had the best arm in the draft last year and for a guy 6'8" he's a pretty mobile guy. Remember he played basketball too so you know he's got some athletic ability to go with the arm and the head, which sounds like what you want in a guy you're grooming for a couple years. I'm hoping we carry all three on the roster and Dysert turns out to be a smart move as well.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:02 AM   #40
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I agree with most of this. Osweiller's haters don't produce a plan for grooming a backup and obviously Caleb Haney wasn't the guy. Elway made a point of saying this guy has a very high football IQ that manifested itself after only one year starting in college, and I can't think of a better trait for Manning's backup to have than that. I don't get the hate on him though...he had the best arm in the draft last year and for a guy 6'8" he's a pretty mobile guy. Remember he played basketball too so you know he's got some athletic ability to go with the arm and the head, which sounds like what you want in a guy you're grooming for a couple years. I'm hoping we carry all three on the roster and Dysert turns out to be a smart move as well.
some people actually believe that Elway's son being a friend of his influenced Elway to draft him when others were rated higher by the fans and he's seen as extremely raw.
this is not Pierre Lacroix with the Avs. Elway doesn't draft or hire based upon nepotism.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:22 AM   #41
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people who complain about the Osweiler pick need to understand some things. Manning wanted a legit back up and a QB of the future on the roster to avoid what happened in Indy. Elway nor Manning wanted to get caught with their pants down in case Manning couldn't play out the life of his contract. It was not feasible to wait on the 2013 or 2014 draft to get a QBOTF to sit behind Manning and learn. The front office and scouting staff graded Osweiler out very highly and more than likely higher than any QB in this past draft(it's not guess work or conjecture, Elway said as much with his comments on this years QB crop)

now knowing all this and still complaining is wildly foolish. the assumption is that if not Osweiler then we would have taken a LB or RB instead and someone who could have been a instant starter. this is not a viable opinion to have because no one knows what the draft board looked like. Elway has gone against the grain of popular opinion in every draft he's done with the Broncos. from trading back and drafting Wolfe to taking Orlando Franklin over others who were viewed as less of a reach to taking Montee Ball over Eddie Lacy to saving money and cutting Doom instead of keeping him.

had we not taken Osweiler in the 2nd last year we then would be forced to either trade for and sacrifice a future pick or use 2.5-3.5 mil on a quality back up. which is cap space that could be used for more important needs.
we lose a year or more of developmental time for the next QBOTF due to taking him a year later or having a highly paid vet in front of him in addition to Manning.

we can now take QB's as a luxury pick and we will have valuable assets in the future that can be dealt for picks or to address needs on the team.
delaying the acquisition of a QB draftee or waiting til a later round doesn't help us. the grade on the QB is probably not as high as Osweiler's, the staff likely doesn't have the same amount of faith in them and then we're stuck being forced to draft a QB instead of taking one for value purposes.

plan A and win now doesn't mean you draft solely based upon the needs of one season. that gets your fired.
Thats all fine and good provided Twilight pans out. The logic behind getting Brock is understandable but if it doesn't work, that is, Brock does not blossom into the QB Elway drafted him to be then it was a waste of a pick, especially in a win-now situation. It's not gonna be pretty IMHO if Dysert supplants Twilight for the starting job.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:32 AM   #42
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Thats all fine and good provided Twilight pans out. The logic behind getting Brock is understandable but if it doesn't work, that is, Brock does not blossom into the QB Elway drafted him to be then it was a waste of a pick, especially in a win-now situation. It's not gonna be pretty IMHO if Dysert supplants Twilight for the starting job.
Thats true of any pick! And if Dysert replaces him and he's awesome, not a **** will be given in all the realm.
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Old 05-03-2013, 09:42 AM   #43
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Thats true of any pick! And if Dysert replaces him and he's awesome, not a **** will be given in all the realm.
Again, if this happens it was a wasted pick. That is the problem people are having, especially because the Broncos could have gotten an impact player that could immediately contribute.
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Old 05-03-2013, 11:11 AM   #44
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Again, if this happens it was a wasted pick. That is the problem people are having, especially because the Broncos could have gotten an impact player that could immediately contribute.
once again, you assume the Broncos had someone graded highly that people would have endorsed.
they could have just as easily picked a TE,a WR or etc who was higher on the draft board than whatever position or player you assume.

even if he doesn't pan out it was better to take the QB early and give him every chance to develop than to wait later on and be forced up against a wall.
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Old 05-03-2013, 11:39 AM   #45
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once again, you assume the Broncos had someone graded highly that people would have endorsed.
they could have just as easily picked a TE,a WR or etc who was higher on the draft board than whatever position or player you assume.

even if he doesn't pan out it was better to take the QB early and give him every chance to develop than to wait later on and be forced up against a wall.
I'm with you... this happens every year...but...but..but...we coulda had player A,B,C or D... Oh freaking well... I'm glad we have two young Qbs and I hope one or both pan out, but I won't be crying to a picture of David if they don't... It's the draft and there are home runs and strikeouts every year...I'll trust the Front Office...
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Old 05-03-2013, 11:44 AM   #46
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I'm with you... this happens every year...but...but..but...we coulda had player A,B,C or D... Oh freaking well... I'm glad we have two young Qbs and I hope one or both pan out, but I won't be crying to a picture of David if they don't... It's the draft and there are home runs and strikeouts every year...I'll trust the Front Office...
Watch both of them pan out and we get a crap ton of picks for the one we don't want to keep.
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Old 05-03-2013, 11:59 AM   #47
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Again, if this happens it was a wasted pick. That is the problem people are having, especially because the Broncos could have gotten an impact player that could immediately contribute.
Or they could have gotten some other player who wont. QBs are commodities in this league. Lets say Dysert comes in and plays lights out, and Osweiler is still alright. We could move him for something. There's not a bad situation tht can come out of it unless they both suck, but the player they may have picked in the 2nd round instead of Oz might also be ****.
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:00 PM   #48
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once again, you assume the Broncos had someone graded highly that people would have endorsed.
they could have just as easily picked a TE,a WR or etc who was higher on the draft board than whatever position or player you assume.

even if he doesn't pan out it was better to take the QB early and give him every chance to develop than to wait later on and be forced up against a wall.
Lavonte David would have been nice. Immediate help at the LBer position. Just say'n. If Osweiler doesn't pan out it cost the team quite a bit, not only because the Broncos are in a win now mode, but because the Broncos also spent a lot of time trying to develop a guy who pal'd around with Elways son at ASU. But whatever...
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:02 PM   #49
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Watch both of them pan out and we get a crap ton of picks for the one we don't want to keep.
yep, that's the best way to do it in this day and age of the NFL.
such value on them that even a well thought of one can garner a ton of value.
the friggin' Pats were demanding a 2nd for Ryan Mallett for christ sakes.
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Old 05-03-2013, 12:03 PM   #50
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Or they could have gotten some other player who wont. QBs are commodities in this league. Lets say Dysert comes in and plays lights out, and Osweiler is still alright. We could move him for something. There's not a bad situation tht can come out of it unless they both suck, but the player they may have picked in the 2nd round instead of Oz might also be ****.
If Osweiler does not pan out, it was a wasted pick. Period. I'm not sure why people are figting me on this. Wasted pick, wasted time, wasted spot on the roster, etc. Hopefully this won't be the case.
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