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Old 05-01-2013, 11:14 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by DENVERDUI55 View Post
Wow Kuper gets overrated on this board. Yes he is a warrior, team player, etc. The facts ate gw is paid near the top for his position and doesn't play like it. At this point keep him this year then ship him unless he can play C.
It's kinda hard to play as good as your salary when you've been injured. Before the injuries I would say his compensation was worth the product. I agree that if he can't back to that level then he's got to take the pay cut. If he doesn't want to then for sure he's gone next year but they could keep him around this year and possibly later in the season if he got healthy enough he could contribute. If he is healthy by training camp, let him compete for Center or LG. You're paying the man this year anyway, might as well let him have a stab at C or LG.
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Old 05-01-2013, 11:25 PM   #52
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This.

He'll stay on the roster as PUP, without counting against the cap or against the 53-man limit.

We'll deal with him in week 6.
Sounds reasonable and a decent plan all around. Just make sure Kupe is fully healed this time, if he ever will be any time soon, before throwing him to the wolves.
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Old 05-02-2013, 08:31 AM   #53
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The fact Broncos haven't made a move at center tells me the think Blake has progressed at least enough to be a bkup. Then between Koppen, Walton, Blake they can field a decent center for this yr. I wish they had drafted Schwenke when they had the chance but the fact they passed on promising young centers has to mean Phillip Blake still factoring in to their decision. Or it could mean they feel when Kuper gets healthy he could play center? But if a player hasn't played center at least in college I'm not sure how easy a switch that is.
Koppen is currently a free agent. I'm not sure that he's going to be in the picture...
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:36 AM   #54
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Wow Kuper gets overrated on this board. Yes he is a warrior, team player, etc. The facts ate gw is paid near the top for his position and doesn't play like it. At this point keep him this year then ship him unless he can play C.
I kinda feel like Beadles is overrated..
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:45 AM   #55
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I kinda feel like Beadles is overrated..
this
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:53 AM   #56
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You guys do realize that Beadles and Vasquez are the only two Bronco Offensive Lineman that are healthy right?

Clady, Walton, and Kuper won't even be ready to participate in practice until August.

While it's true Beadles only got into the Pro Bowl because John Fox was the coach (Fox chose Kuper first, who couldn't play due to injury), he's a solid player who is getting better.

Last edited by pricejj; 05-02-2013 at 10:56 AM..
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:55 AM   #57
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I kinda feel like Beadles is overrated..
Considering half this board is ready to bench him even though hes a capable starter might suggest otherwise.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:58 AM   #58
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Talking about benching Beadles for Kuper is laughable.

If Kuper EVER comes back (which is highly doubtful), it would be at a MUCH reduced rate, and probably at Center.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:26 AM   #59
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Talking about benching Beadles for Kuper is laughable.

If Kuper EVER comes back (which is highly doubtful), it would be at a MUCH reduced rate, and probably at Center.
I don't think anybody suggest benching Beadles and just openly giving that spot to Kuper. What's been said is that there could be competition between the 2 at that spot. If Kuper is fully healthy, he could easily out perform Beadles. But a banged up not the same Kuper, then we're talking depth for this year and cut the next. Unless they feel he could compete at center.
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:12 PM   #60
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I don't think anybody suggest benching Beadles and just openly giving that spot to Kuper. What's been said is that there could be competition between the 2 at that spot. If Kuper is fully healthy, he could easily out perform Beadles. But a banged up not the same Kuper, then we're talking depth for this year and cut the next. Unless they feel he could compete at center.
Kuper's injury situation is real tricky, both for him and the Denver Broncos. Once he's able to practice in August, it will almost be a full 2 years after the original injury. I'm not sure what's going to happen with that whole situation, but I don't think the Broncos would keep Kuper at $5.4M this year
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:41 PM   #61
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Considering half this board is ready to bench him even though hes a capable starter might suggest otherwise.
When I watched the offensive line, he was more often than not sticking out as the weak link. He's blown back in both pass and run blocking..
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:48 PM   #62
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Zona said it well Price.. I don't think anybody is talking about handing Kuper a starting spot anywhere. And when and IF healthy many including myself think he's the better player than Beadles in straight competition.

Actually what really complicates things is Beadles age, previous season, and up coming contract. Sure he was a pro bowler, I think many factors attributed to his success, some his own doing, but Peyton Manning is a big time placebo. He has youth and good health in his favor, and is in a contract season.

But all things being equal, Kuper is the better player when healthy..
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:49 PM   #63
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When I watched the offensive line, he was more often than not sticking out as the weak link. He's blown back in both pass and run blocking..
Can't wait for your full-length thread on how you saw it first if Beadles actually does get benched.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:04 PM   #64
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Can't wait for your full-length thread on how you saw it first if Beadles actually does get benched.
Followed up by requests for credit, and lashing out at those that don't properly give it.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:07 PM   #65
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3 pages on topic and the two of you turn this into a pissing contest.
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:11 PM   #66
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Sure he was a pro bowler...
Beadles was only a Pro Bowler, because John Fox (as head coach at the Pro Bowl) is allowed to make injury substitutions. First, Fox chose Kuper (who was injured), then he chose Beadles.


What I saw of Kuper at the Ravens game didn't look good, more than a year after the original injury. Zane Beadles is good enough, and getting better. Walton even looked good before his ankle injury (which was similar to Kuper's).

If the Broncos can get by without having to give either Beadles or Walton an over-priced contract in 2014, I'm good with it. I don't think either has to be replaced for the Broncos to win a Superbowl, and I'm comfortable with both players moving forward. There's only enough room for one $6M OG on the Broncos.
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:28 PM   #67
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Kuper wasn't at 100%.. He missed some significant time, both game and practice. He wasn't in game shape and didn't look like himself. Agreed he didn't play well, but Beadles stuck out like a sore thumb more often than not during the season.

What is the benefit of getting rid of Kuper if healthy? It's not like we are cap strapped.. His ability either in the starting line-up or off the bench would prove very valueable in a pinch.
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:52 PM   #68
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Kuper wasn't at 100%.. He missed some significant time, both game and practice. He wasn't in game shape and didn't look like himself. Agreed he didn't play well, but Beadles stuck out like a sore thumb more often than not during the season.

What is the benefit of getting rid of Kuper if healthy? It's not like we are cap strapped.. His ability either in the starting line-up or off the bench would prove very valueable in a pinch.
The Broncos aren't cap strapped, but they certainly will need to trim the roster in order to carry some rollover into 2014. Managing the cap situation is crucial for the Broncos moving forward. I expect both Kuper and McGahee to not be Broncos after the last week of preseason. Cutting their salaries would put the Broncos in excellent cap position in 2014 to make all their necessary moves with internal FA's, and is the best thing for the team moving forward.

If you keep Kuper for 2013 and cut him in 2014, you're paying $7.3M for one year of football. It's just not worth the cost. The Broncos made their move when they signed Louis Vasquez.

I suspect the only issue remaining in the Kuper camp is the injury settlement issue. I would not be surprised if he retired.

Last edited by pricejj; 05-02-2013 at 02:55 PM..
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Old 05-02-2013, 03:01 PM   #69
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Beadles was only a Pro Bowler, because John Fox (as head coach at the Pro Bowl) is allowed to make injury substitutions. First, Fox chose Kuper (who was injured), then he chose Beadles.

What I saw of Kuper at the Ravens game didn't look good, more than a year after the original injury. Zane Beadles is good enough, and getting better. Walton even looked good before his ankle injury (which was similar to Kuper's).

If the Broncos can get by without having to give either Beadles or Walton an over-priced contract in 2014, I'm good with it. I don't think either has to be replaced for the Broncos to win a Superbowl, and I'm comfortable with both players moving forward. There's only enough room for one $6M OG on the Broncos.
Wha? Aren't pro bowl alternates selected once the team is selected?
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Old 05-02-2013, 03:32 PM   #70
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Wha? Aren't pro bowl alternates selected once the team is selected?
According to Alfred Williams Beadles was there because of Fox. I know that Mankins pulled out, so Kuper was invited but declined, then Beadles was invited and accepted. I thought it was surprising too. Maybe Big Al is wrong. Not sure of the process for selecting injury alternates.
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Old 05-02-2013, 03:38 PM   #71
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According to Alfred Williams Beadles was there because of Fox. I know that Mankins pulled out, so Kuper was invited but declined, then Beadles was invited and accepted. I thought it was surprising too. Maybe Big Al is wrong. Not sure of the process for selecting injury alternates.
I dont think thats true.
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Old 05-02-2013, 03:39 PM   #72
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1. Kuper is not moving to Center. Why in the world would you undermine not just one but two positions at OL by taking a career RG with two ankle injuries and moving him to a position where he has no experience and that relies on lateral agility and quickness at Center?

2. Kuper isn't going to get a $5million contract or anywhere near that if he's cut. The best situation for both sides is if he takes a new contract with drastically reduced pay and provide he can come back healthy and compete to be one of the backups which would still allow him plenty of time to recover and still be one of the locker room leaders.

3. By keeping him around at reduced pay you still get valueable depth, a chance he comes back healthy, and a real bargaining chip next year if Beadles decides to ask over and beyond market value for his contract.
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Old 05-02-2013, 04:05 PM   #73
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1. Kuper is not moving to Center. Why in the world would you undermine not just one but two positions at OL by taking a career RG with two ankle injuries and moving him to a position where he has no experience and that relies on lateral agility and quickness at Center?

2. Kuper isn't going to get a $5million contract or anywhere near that if he's cut. The best situation for both sides is if he takes a new contract with drastically reduced pay and provide he can come back healthy and compete to be one of the backups which would still allow him plenty of time to recover and still be one of the locker room leaders.

3. By keeping him around at reduced pay you still get valueable depth, a chance he comes back healthy, and a real bargaining chip next year if Beadles decides to ask over and beyond market value for his contract.
Do you really think Beadles is a better Guard than Kuper?
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Old 05-02-2013, 05:56 PM   #74
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1. Kuper is not moving to Center. Why in the world would you undermine not just one but two positions at OL by taking a career RG with two ankle injuries and moving him to a position where he has no experience and that relies on lateral agility and quickness at Center?

2. Kuper isn't going to get a $5million contract or anywhere near that if he's cut. The best situation for both sides is if he takes a new contract with drastically reduced pay and provide he can come back healthy and compete to be one of the backups which would still allow him plenty of time to recover and still be one of the locker room leaders.

3. By keeping him arouynd at reduced pay you still get valueable depth, a chance he comes back healthy, and a real bargaining chip next year if Beadles decides to ask over and beyond market value for his contract.
Wasn't Kuper a LG until Beadles got here? And didn't he switch because Beadles couldn't handle RG?

Anyway... Beadles is great at pulling, other than he is ok. Not in Kuper realm as far as pass block, run block and nastiness.

If Kuper is healthy, I am positive he beats out Beadles. Like you I don't get all the talk of him moving to C. The same goes for Beadles.
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Old 05-03-2013, 01:34 AM   #75
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Do you really think Beadles is a better Guard than Kuper?
At this stage in their careers yes I do.

For the first two years Beadles played soft on the field but last year he showed up with much more strength and better conditioning and drastically improved his game. He's no longer a liability in pass protection and is actually an asset in the run game and finished the year extremely well. He allowed, what like 1 sack all year? His poor play in his first two seasons was more to do with not being in NFL shape rather than deficiencies in his agility, and footwork.

Kuper has had two serious surgeries on his ankle now with the same leg showing a break near the original plate at the end of last season. So it's worrying that the injury didn't heal fully initially and actually recently was reinjured. NOT good for his long term prospects of making the roster, let alone starting.

That's why there's not a chance that Kuper will play at Center where you need excellent feet, and real drive from your legs and base to move 320+ DL out of the way. A guy who shattered his ankle/lower fib the last two years is not going to do that either at C or Guard.

Last edited by fontaine; 05-03-2013 at 01:38 AM..
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