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Old 04-29-2013, 11:58 AM   #26
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Matthew Shepard was killed because he owed his meth dealer.
Lol wut
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Old 04-29-2013, 01:28 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by TheElusiveKyleOrton View Post
Lol wut
From the article. I get tired of the Mathew Shepard was gay Jesus. He owed money to a meth dealer. Same kids beat up another guy same day same reason.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:15 PM   #28
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It's always news when something happens for the first time. It would be nice if it isn't headline worthy in a decade or two, but for now it is a barrier nobody has crossed in the major 4 sports. You can't say "who cares" when there is obviously enough controversy and fear surrounding coming out as a pro athlete that we've never seen an active NBA player do so. It would be ridiculous not to cover it as a significant event.

Edit: And I would add that the fan reaction of "it doesn't personally matter to me who a player is attracted to so why is this a story?" missed the point entirely. You may have been a-ok with having a black player on your favorite team pre-integration, but when it is still a major taboo among much of the culture it is a big deal. And carries risk for that person crossing the barrier.

I'm not a big NBA fan, or someone who really knew Collins before today, but it's silly to filter the newsworthiness of an event through its personal impact on yourself.
It's only a barrier no one's crossed if he actually plays next season. Otherwise its not really any diff from John Amaechi's story. I really think it needs to be a young star.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:17 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by rugbythug View Post
From the article. I get tired of the Mathew Shepard was gay Jesus. He owed money to a meth dealer. Same kids beat up another guy same day same reason.
That "he owed money to a meth dealer" isn't as clear as you're stating.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:18 PM   #30
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Seems like we're in denial that there aren't a lot of gays, percentage wise. We seem to expect waves and waves of "coming out" parties by athletes. But in reality, if you take any cross section of people that isn't a self-selected gay area or career, it's going to be 2 or 3 percent gay. Especially if you're talking males, and don't count prison and youthful experimentation. If you score it "gay, don't like women," that's going to be only a handful of men in the NBA. Maybe even less due to sports culture or something.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:24 PM   #31
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Seems like we're in denial that there aren't a lot of gays, percentage wise. We seem to expect waves and waves of "coming out" parties by athletes. But in reality, if you take any cross section of people that isn't a self-selected gay area or career, it's going to be 2 or 3 percent gay. Especially if you're talking males, and don't count prison and youthful experimentation. If you score it "gay, don't like women," that's going to be only a handful of men in the NBA. Maybe even less due to sports culture or something.
Woodson was just on NFL and said he knows he played with many players that were gay and it wasn't a big deal.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:43 PM   #32
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It's only a barrier no one's crossed if he actually plays next season. Otherwise its not really any diff from John Amaechi's story. I really think it needs to be a young star.
I do think we've seen a wider reaction to this than Amaechi just in terms of players in the NBA (Kobe, Dwyane Wade for instance) voicing immediate support.

It's unfortunate the "active player" aspect is a little fuzzy, but I do see a difference here. This is a guy who plans on being in an NBA locker room next year. And, if nothing else, the headlines are all presenting it that way. It's not an all-star coming out, but Collins has likely made coming out a little less daunting to a young player that might be considering.
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:44 PM   #33
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From the article. I get tired of the Mathew Shepard was gay Jesus. He owed money to a meth dealer. Same kids beat up another guy same day same reason.
Does it really matter? Out of the Mathew Shepard situation came a lot of good awareness around homophobia. Out of it came the Mathew Shepard foundation and other similar organizations that gave support to young LGBT people that needed it. Lives have been saved because of it. What good does sullying the situation do?
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Old 04-29-2013, 02:47 PM   #34
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Old 04-29-2013, 03:17 PM   #35
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Does it really matter? Out of the Mathew Shepard situation came a lot of good awareness around homophobia. Out of it came the Mathew Shepard foundation and other similar organizations that gave support to young LGBT people that needed it. Lives have been saved because of it. What good does sullying the situation do?
Lance Armstrong effect.

I personally feel that hate crime legislation is bad. Much like creating a false idol to push your agenda.
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Old 04-29-2013, 03:19 PM   #36
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That "he owed money to a meth dealer" isn't as clear as you're stating.
It was. I lived in Laramie then and know.
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Old 04-29-2013, 03:25 PM   #37
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Lance Armstrong effect.

I personally feel that hate crime legislation is bad. Much like creating a false idol to push your agenda.
Yeah, man, **** civil rights and equal protection.
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Old 04-29-2013, 03:49 PM   #38
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Yeah, man, **** civil rights and equal protection.
Hate crime laws are the opposite of equal rights.

Murder should be treated the same, regardless of motivation. Sure, if it's premeditated, then that is worse, but the motive doesn't make it worse or better. If I shoot you for your money, or I shoot you because you are gay, how does me shooting you because you are gay make it "worse" than for greed? Hate crime laws are stupid because they try to create some kind of escalators around nebulous criteria. And those make it difficult to prove and muddy the waters putting more difficulty on prosecutors. Crime is crime. And if you do something bad to someone, doing it because it's a hate crime doesn't make it any worse than if you do it purely for greed or because you are sociopath or whatever.
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Old 04-29-2013, 03:55 PM   #39
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Over under on if Espn fires Chis Broussard for his comments on OTL ??

Figure they will get major pressure for it.

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Old 04-29-2013, 03:57 PM   #40
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By the way.. thanks you OP for letting us know this was "Off topic" I would never have guessed.
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Old 04-29-2013, 03:58 PM   #41
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Over under on if Espn fires Chis Broussard for his comments on OTL ??

Figure they will get major pressure for it.

"And they fired ME?" -Rob Parker
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Old 04-29-2013, 03:59 PM   #42
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Not exactly crazy about this push for a "gay Jackie Robinson". You would think I'd be for it...but honestly I dont care. Some gays are on fire (heh...) for anyone who is gay to come out, be proud, be responsible to the community. A pro athlete is only that for a tiny window. They should not come out JUST to come out. Other things have to factor in, like team, teammates, city, own player's level of comfort and whether or not he wants people to know every detail of his private life. The first active gay NFL player is going to have a nightmare on his hands, even if his teammates and city accept it. Imagine the Tebow circus x 1000. That is what that player and team will have to deal with.

So good luck to that poor idiot. Seriously.

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Old 04-29-2013, 03:59 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
Hate crime laws are the opposite of equal rights.

Murder should be treated the same, regardless of motivation. Sure, if it's premeditated, then that is worse, but the motive doesn't make it worse or better. If I shoot you for your money, or I shoot you because you are gay, how does me shooting you because you are gay make it "worse" than for greed? Hate crime laws are stupid because they try to create some kind of escalators around nebulous criteria. And those make it difficult to prove and muddy the waters putting more difficulty on prosecutors. Crime is crime. And if you do something bad to someone, doing it because it's a hate crime doesn't make it any worse than if you do it purely for greed or because you are sociopath or whatever.
Sure, and I agree with you.

But the notoriety associated with this case had wider-ranging implications than merely hate crime legislation.
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Old 04-29-2013, 04:03 PM   #44
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I wonder if his team mates will now feel uncomfortable when he invites them to a bar to "slam one" down?
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Old 04-29-2013, 04:05 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
Hate crime laws are the opposite of equal rights.

Murder should be treated the same, regardless of motivation. Sure, if it's premeditated, then that is worse, but the motive doesn't make it worse or better. If I shoot you for your money, or I shoot you because you are gay, how does me shooting you because you are gay make it "worse" than for greed? Hate crime laws are stupid because they try to create some kind of escalators around nebulous criteria. And those make it difficult to prove and muddy the waters putting more difficulty on prosecutors. Crime is crime. And if you do something bad to someone, doing it because it's a hate crime doesn't make it any worse than if you do it purely for greed or because you are sociopath or whatever.
And yet I'm sure you're quite alright throwing around the word "terrorism"

Hate crimes are terrorist acts, for the record. The definition is the same.
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Old 04-29-2013, 04:08 PM   #46
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Old 04-29-2013, 05:23 PM   #47
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It is generally accepted that between 4% to 10% of any society is gay. I'm sure that percentage crosses the line into any sport or league out there. That means a conservative estimate is that there are 67 gay players in the NFL.
the chargers are only one team tho
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Old 04-29-2013, 05:28 PM   #48
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Woodson was just on NFL and said he knows he played with many players that were gay and it wasn't a big deal.
I don't recall him saying "many". He said he played with guys he knew were gay, but he didn't really give any indication of how many.
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Old 04-29-2013, 05:33 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
Hate crime laws are the opposite of equal rights.

Murder should be treated the same, regardless of motivation. Sure, if it's premeditated, then that is worse, but the motive doesn't make it worse or better. If I shoot you for your money, or I shoot you because you are gay, how does me shooting you because you are gay make it "worse" than for greed? Hate crime laws are stupid because they try to create some kind of escalators around nebulous criteria. And those make it difficult to prove and muddy the waters putting more difficulty on prosecutors. Crime is crime. And if you do something bad to someone, doing it because it's a hate crime doesn't make it any worse than if you do it purely for greed or because you are sociopath or whatever.
Totally agree.

I've always been baffled by the concept of "hate crimes". I mean a serial killer who targets women and tortures and violates them before killing them would be more guilty of a hate-motivated crime than anyone as far as I'm concerned, yet I've never seen anyone classify it as such. Many violent crimes are hate-induced, but only a select few are actually classified as "hate crimes". It's a non-nonsensical notion that has no logical basis, and should not be part of our legal system.
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Old 04-29-2013, 05:36 PM   #50
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I think you are all missing the point. The reason this is a big deal stems from a relevant civil rights issue (gay marriage/acceptance) in a homophobic world. One of the biggest road blocks to our culture accepting homosexuality as a non-issue, is destroying the homophobic nature of men. Male professional athletes play a key role in this, because the acceptance they receive in a masculine environment will act a catalyst for other males to do the same. Whether we choose to accept it or not, men idolize athletes more than anyone else in this country, and this could hold serious weight in the hope for acceptance many gay males are striving for. So, yes this is significant news.
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