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Old 04-29-2013, 11:59 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by MagicHef View Post
35-65? That seems extreme. I kind of doubt we will play 65% of defensive snaps with only 2 guys over 250 pounds.
It's about standard with all the subpackages being run on offfense these days. It's about the same across the league...
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:07 PM   #27
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It's about standard with all the subpackages being run on offfense these days. It's about the same across the league...
The league has gone too far on the passing side, IMHO. They need to start bringing back the run. Get some balance. I realize it's easier to market the game to non-fans with the deep ball, but the run is the heart and soul of the game itself.
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:07 PM   #28
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Broncos changes in Nickel Defense for 2013:

1. Replaced Elvis Dumervil with Shaun Phillips and Quanterus Smith.
2. Drafted Sylvester Wiliams in the 1st round as an impact DT.
3. All Broncos young players will be better (Derek Wolfe, Danny Trevathan, Rahim Moore).
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:08 PM   #29
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Nickel 4-2 Defense (65% of plays):

LDE: Von Miller
1-tech: Sylvester Williams
3-tech: Derek Wolfe
RDE: Shaun Phillips

Half-Field LB: Danny Trevathan
Half-Field LB: Wesley Woodyard

LCB: Champ Bailey
RCB: DRC
Nickel CB: Chris Harris

SS: Mike Adams
FS: Rahim Moore
I was going to write exact same thing. Ditto for for the base D.
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:15 PM   #30
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It doesn't seem to me that Sly is the NT type. I wonder if Wolfe won't play more of a DE role and Knighton or Vickerson will play the NT role? Wolfe played at LE much more than DT last season. The strength of Sly's game is quickness and his ability to penetrate the line. That probably means Shaun is Von's backup in the 4-2.
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:16 PM   #31
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I was going to write exact same thing. Ditto for for the base D.
The Nickel D should be better against the pass. Hope Trevathan has a huge jump this year, in order for Nickel D to get better against the run.

I want Danny Trevathan to improve like Chris Harris did.
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:22 PM   #32
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It doesn't seem to me that Sly is the NT type. I wonder if Wolfe won't play more of a DE role and Knighton or Vickerson will play the NT role. Wolfe played at LE much more last season. The strength of Sly's game is quickness and his ability to penetrate the line.
Both Wolfe and Sly can take turns at 3-tech in Nickel Defense. Knighton and Unrein can play both positions too.
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:26 PM   #33
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The Nickel D should be better against the pass. Hope Trevathan has a huge jump this year, in order for Nickel D to get better against the run.

I want Danny Trevathan to improve like Chris Harris did.
I hope so as well. I'm living the way Elway has turned this team around. An equal amount of urgency and patience. Urgency with FA and patience with our draft. Its funny his everybody's the other way with it. But the topper is Elway is honest with the roster, ie, Joe Mays. Can't play not going to take up a spot on the roster.

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Old 04-29-2013, 12:33 PM   #34
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If it's a given that the NFL is a passing league, IMO it makes sense that your base D should be a nickel. Most teams have forgone fullbacks these days, instead running with 3 WR's or 2 TE's. Defenses should match personnel groupings, and that's what they usually do. I'd bet that most teams play nickel more than base.

In this paradigm, there should be 6 starting box players configured in either a 4-2 or a 3-3. Based on what Denver has been doing in free-agency and the draft, I'm thinking we will be spending lots of time in a 4-2...especially if the offense gets 1st half leads like we all think they will.

So, here's how I'm seeing it:

DL: Phillips (strong side DE), Ayers(?) (DT), Sly Williams (DT) Wolfe (weakside DE)

LB: Von at SAM and WW at WILL

This grouping would be ok vs the run for a nickel, but my god, the pass rush could be fantastic.

if you wanted to change things up, you rotate WW over to MIKE and play Phillips at WILL. Phillips can play coverage too, although that may not be his strong suit these days.

Regardless, the point is that just like FB has been de-emphasized in the modern NFL, I'm proposing FOX/Del Rio are de-emphasizing the role of the MIKE, in favor of extra secondary help. This explains why we picked up DRC and then spent a 3rd rounder on a CB, when we were returning all key players from last year, while at the same time we paid very little attention to the MLB role.

Does this all make sense?


Youre assessment is spot on in naming the base d as nickel imo.

Yes, this is the defense we played the most snaps at.

And I can definitely see Del Rios machinations coming to bear.

I just think right now we have a tremendously flexibly defense.

There are a whole slew of sub packages that can be brought to bear because of our personel.

Of the guys listed: Williams, Wolfe, Vickerson, Phillips, Ayers, Knighton, Unrein, Miller and Jackson can play all over the line.

Von Miller can rush from anywhere but is most effective at LDE.

They can see him coming and let the ball go
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:37 PM   #35
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"If you look at where we are, 65 percent of our snaps last year we were in nickel," Elway said, referring to the defensive package in which the middle linebacker is replaced by an extra defensive back. "I'm not trying to downplay the importance of that position. But nickel is so important too.

"We drafted Nate two years ago in the third round to take over at middle linebacker. I have a great deal of confidence that he's going to come in and give him that responsibility and he'll step up to it."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...ames-manti-teo
I guess I should have been more clear. I can see 65% of snaps with 5 DBs. I can't see 65% of snaps with Von on the line.
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Old 04-29-2013, 12:42 PM   #36
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Youre assessment is spot on in naming the base d as nickel imo.

Yes, this is the defense we played the most snaps at.

And I can definitely see Del Rios machinations coming to bear.

I just think right now we have a tremendously flexibly defense.

There are a whole slew of sub packages that can be brought to bear because of our personel.

Of the guys listed: Williams, Wolfe, Vickerson, Phillips, Ayers, Knighton, Unrein, Miller and Jackson can play all over the line.

Von Miller can rush from anywhere but is most effective at LDE.

They can see him coming and let the ball go
Yep. I'm thinking they've built a lot of depth to keep intensity on the field. Knighton, Vickerson and Unrein can interchange on the NT role. Sly and Wolfe can interchange on the UT role. DEs can be Von, Williams, Ayers, Jackson and even Wolfe. LBs are all pretty speedy. They can keep playing the nickle and not run out of gas. Look at the stable of DBs! I see Webster as a safety. Of course, this is why so many teams are going no-huddle now. Still, the base package of any of those combinations is pretty damn good.
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Old 04-29-2013, 05:31 PM   #37
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That wouldn't be even remotely "okay against the run"
Thank you for injecting some sanity into this.

My first thought was wow! Texans, skins, all the other teams who know how to run the ball would just start salivating when they saw the proposed D set.
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Old 04-29-2013, 07:58 PM   #38
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The Nickel D should be better against the pass. Hope Trevathan has a huge jump this year, in order for Nickel D to get better against the run.

I want Danny Trevathan to improve like Chris Harris did.
Only problem with that is teams that will have the abililty to run on us in our Nickel package i.e. the Pats.
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Old 04-29-2013, 09:25 PM   #39
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Only problem with that is teams that will have the abililty to run on us in our Nickel package i.e. the Pats.
Hopefully with the addition of Sly and continued improvement of all the young players, the Broncos will be able to stop the run in Nickel Defense.

Sio Moore would have been nice. Oh well, he's a Raider now. Hope Trev is up to the task.
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Old 04-29-2013, 09:29 PM   #40
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I've seen some reports that were saying that Broncos went after Weber early because they liked how he could fill a sort of "big nickel" type of role.

The main question - is he tall enough at 5'11" to cover the 6'5" Gates' and Gronkowskis of the world.
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:52 PM   #41
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Hopefully with the addition of Sly and continued improvement of all the young players, the Broncos will be able to stop the run in Nickel Defense.

.
Me too.
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Old 04-30-2013, 08:03 PM   #42
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Nickel 4-2 Defense (65% of plays):

LDE: Von Miller
1-tech: Sylvester Williams
3-tech: Derek Wolfe
RDE: Shaun Phillips

Half-Field LB: Danny Trevathan
Half-Field LB: Wesley Woodyard

LCB: Champ Bailey
RCB: DRC
Nickel CB: Chris Harris

SS: Mike Adams
FS: Rahim Moore
Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
Base 4-3 Under Defense (35% of plays):

Rush LB: Von Miller
5-tech: Derek Wolfe
1-tech: Kevin Vickerson
3-tech: Sylvester Williams
RDE: Shaun Phillips

MIKE: Nate Irving (or Keith Brooking)
WOLB: Wesley Woodyard

LCB: Champ Bailey
RCB: DRC

SS: Mike Adams
FS: Rahim Moore
No Knighton? I think that's a glaring omission. He'll be a big part of a rotation. I think the Bronco d will be plenty fluid this year and will give multiple front looks and rotate defenders based on down/distance, opponent, and other factors.

Also, I think Harris is one of the top 2 CBs on the team and I think he works his way into the starting spot & moves to the slot in nickle situations.

Last edited by BroncosfanGuy; 04-30-2013 at 08:07 PM..
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Old 04-30-2013, 08:35 PM   #43
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I've seen some reports that were saying that Broncos went after Weber early because they liked how he could fill a sort of "big nickel" type of role.

The main question - is he tall enough at 5'11" to cover the 6'5" Gates' and Gronkowskis of the world.
If the pass rush can't be stopped he is.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:51 PM   #44
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No Knighton? I think that's a glaring omission. He'll be a big part of a rotation. I think the Bronco d will be plenty fluid this year and will give multiple front looks and rotate defenders based on down/distance, opponent, and other factors.

Also, I think Harris is one of the top 2 CBs on the team and I think he works his way into the starting spot & moves to the slot in nickle situations.
The way I think it is gonna work, the nickelback is a starting spot.

Look folks - here's what we know:

1. in 2012, the team spent 65% of the time in nickel.
2. personnel wise, if we want to get our best 11 on the field, that will include 2 LB's and 3 CB's.
3. Nickel Defense is a natural answer to offenses eliminating the fullback.

Regardless of how the DL works, our base D will be nickel, and will transition to a 4-3 based on down-distance and/or opponent tendencies.
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:59 PM   #45
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Nickel 4-2 Defense (65% of plays):

LDE: Von Miller
1-tech: Sylvester Williams
3-tech: Derek Wolfe
RDE: Shaun Phillips

Half-Field LB: Danny Trevathan
Half-Field LB: Wesley Woodyard

LCB: Champ Bailey
RCB: DRC
Nickel CB: Chris Harris

SS: Mike Adams
FS: Rahim Moore
As of day 1 training camp, I can see this line-up. I hope that Carter takes Adams spot at SS. I guess depending on who we play Harris or DRC will be the nickel. If we play a team where the TE is in the slot it will be DRC at the nickel, but if there's a smaller guy like a Tavon Austin we will use Harris.
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:18 PM   #46
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I would like to see some wrinkles every now and then like this.

LE Wolfe
DT Sly
DT Knighton
RE Miller

SLOB Phillips
MLB ??
WLB Woodyard

CB Bailey
CB DRC
S Moore
S Carter
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Old 05-01-2013, 05:46 AM   #47
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I think the Broncos go 3-3 in nickle like they did late in the season last year. Who those linebackers are going to be is still up for debate, but the dline is pretty obvious:


Wolfe Knighton Williams
Miller
Irving Woodyard
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Old 05-01-2013, 06:06 AM   #48
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I think the Broncos go 3-3 in nickle like they did late in the season last year. Who those linebackers are going to be is still up for debate, but the dline is pretty obvious:


Wolfe Knighton Williams
Miller
Irving Woodyard
We might see just as much Wolfe Williams Ayers as we do your proposed lineup.

They must really like Bobby for some reason that we havent seen consistently on the field.
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Old 05-01-2013, 06:59 AM   #49
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Sly is not a NT, and I don't think the Broncos brought him in to play the nose, which would be a waste of his talents. If I were to try and guess JDR's intentions, I'd say he wants Wolfe to play LDE and brought Sly in to play the UT role after going out and getting Knighton to replace Bannan at NT. Any lineup that proposes Sly at NT is just wrong, IMHO. He was brought in to collapse the pocket and rush the passer from the interior.
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:05 AM   #50
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Sly is not a NT, and I don't think the Broncos brought him in to play the nose, which would be a waste of his talents. If I were to try and guess JDR's intentions, I'd say he wants Wolfe to play LDE and brought Sly in to play the UT role after going out and getting Knighton to replace Bannan at NT. Any lineup that proposes Sly at NT is just wrong, IMHO. He was brought in to collapse the pocket and rush the passer from the interior.
It's a 3-3... no one is playing nose. The linemen are shaded in pass rush gaps.
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