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Old 04-27-2013, 07:09 PM   #26
mhgaffney
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Action is required, and I have faith that Obama will take it. The use of chemical weapons on women and children is unacceptable and we as country should punish those that use them.
Syria is denying it.


Chemical Weapons Claims a 'Barefaced Lie,' says Syrian Minister

By RT

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle34744.htm

April 27, 2013 "Information Clearing House" -"RT" -
Without hard evidence, American accusations of chemical weapons use in Syria fall short of UN proof standards, says a UN chemical inspector. And in the way proposed, a probe would only result in an Iraqi scenario, the Syrian information minister told RT.

The anti-Assad lobby in the UN is using the chemical weapons scare as a new way to exert political and economic pressure on the Syrian government, the country's information minister Omran Ahed al-Zouabi told RT.

“First of all, I want to confirm that statements by the US Secretary of State and British government are inconsistent with reality and a barefaced lie,” he told RT. “I want to stress one more time that Syria would never use it - not only because of its adherence to the international law and rules of leading war, but because of humanitarian and moral issues.”

Syria itself made the official request to the UN to investigate the incident in Khan al-Assal, which is an “important and brave step,” al-Zouabi stressed.

“It proves once again that the whole policy of the Syrian government is targeted against use of any kind of weapons of mass destruction by anybody: terrorists, Israel or any other neighboring state,” he said.

The United States pretends that there are no terrorists acting on Syrian territory at the same time being a country “involved in the biggest terror acts in the world,” the minister claimed. “The US is concealing that Qatar is financing terrorists, supply weapons to them. Thus, the US is basically involved in what is happening in Syria.”

‘Iraqi scheme of inspections’

In all their “absurdity and deceitfulness,” al-Zouabi explained, such statements by some Western governments are made in pursuit of basic goals.

“Their aim is, first, to cover those who are really behind use of chemical weapons in Khan al-Assal, and secondly, to repeat Iraq’s scenario, to pave the way for other investigation inspections. To provide, based on their results, maps, photos of rockets and other fabricated materials to the UN, which as we know, opened the way to the occupation of Iraq.”

Russian foreign ministry spokesman Aleksandr Lukashevich meanwhile said that the UN Secretary-General's initial positive reaction to Syria's appeal for an investigation“underwent a drastic change under the influence of a number of states.”

“The management of the UN Secretariat demanded that Damascus agree to the establishment of a permanent mechanism for inspection throughout Syrian territory with unlimited access to everywhere,” Lukashevich explained.

“The proposed scheme of inspections is similar to those used at the end of the last century in Iraq, which, unlike Syria, was under UN sanctions.” After months of silence, the UN is now referring to information from France and Britain about other cases of alleged use of chemical weapons last year, which Lukashevich believes demonstrates a highly politicized approach.

“It's difficult to understand why leaders of the UN Secretariat preferred to follow those who are concerned not about exact steps towards the suppression of use of chemical weapons in the Syrian crisis, but about changing the ruling regime of a sovereign state.”

Inspectors on standby

The United Nations again pushed on Thursday for unconditional and unfettered access for its team of investigators, which has been on standby in Cyprus since Syria refused it access nearly three weeks ago.

“We do not trust the American and British experts from a political point of view,” al-Zouab explained. “We also do not trust their qualifications. Their aim is to juggle with facts.”

“We won’t mind if Russians would be among the experts, quite the contrary, we only welcome this idea. We are quite sure in their high qualification and ability to clearly see into such matters.”

Experts from Russia and China however were not included in the team to ensure it wasn’t biased, according to the United Nations.

At the time Russian EU envoy Vitaly Churkin criticized “this kind of logic,” saying in that case he “would recommend excluding all NATO countries too.” Syrian officials maintain that they are ready to accept “a neutral and honest technical team to visit the village of Khan al-Assal” in the province of Aleppo.

The Syrian opposition meanwhile is also dead set against the inclusion of Russian and Chinese experts in the investigation team.

“The Russian side has no status allowing it to conduct a fair and impartial criminal investigation,” the Syrian National Council said in a statement, because Russia “is a major supplier of conventional and strategic weapons to the Syrian regime, as well as the main political guarantor of it staying in power.”

“The UN needs to immediately investigate the use of chemical weapons in Syria,” an anonymous member of the council told AFP. “Should it find the regime used such weapons, it must act immediately, at least by imposing a no-fly zone.”

No samples whatsoever

Whether or not illegal chemical agents were used by either side during the Syrian conflict can only be determined by analyzing samples collected at the scenes of alleged attacks, said the Hague-based Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), which despite not being a United Nations body, collaborates with the UN on such inspections.

None of the governments and intelligence agencies accusing Damascus of using chemical weapons have presented any of the evidence that would be required for a clear analysis, such as soil, blood, urine or tissue samples, said Michael Luhan, a spokesman for OPCW.

But even if samples were provided, the OPCW would never get involved in testing something that its own inspectors did not “gather in the field” because of the need to “maintain a chain of custody of samples from the field to the lab to ensure their integrity,” said Luhan.

“This is the only basis on which the OPCW would provide a formal assessment of whether chemical weapons have been used.”

Meanwhile, waiting for a green light to enter Syria, members of the UN team “have been collating and analyzing the evidence and information that is available to date from outside,” Martin Nesirky, a spokesman for UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, said on Friday.

‘US retains the ability to act unilaterally’

“With varying degrees of confidence” the American intelligence community has determined that “the Syrian regime has used chemical weapons,” US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel announced on Thursday.

Giving the statement added significance, early afternoon on Friday, White House press secretary Jay Carney announced that the Obama administration has a number of options in regards to handling such reports - including direct use of military force - and that United States retains the ability to ‘act unilaterally’ in choosing one.

Just hours later, President Obama himself said, "horrific as it is…to use potential weapons of mass destruction on civilian populations crosses another line with respect to international norms and international law.” His remarks came after a meeting with Jordan's King Abdullah in the Oval Office, amid mass demonstrations against deployment of US troops on Jordanian border with Syria.
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:14 PM   #27
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Of course gaffe takes Assad's spewage as truth.
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:42 PM   #28
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In this case it will one and the same. First, crimes against humanity charges should filed in the Hague, second limited military strikes on current Syrian Air Bases, finally enforcement of no-fly zone.
What about when Saddam gassed the Kurds. Would have you supported taking him out then? is it just Bush jr waited too long for you to support that? Because he killed just as many Kurds as assad killing civilians now. Also in Africa we have tons of civilians killed in civil wars. Why are liberals so easily brought along for Syria?

Also Syria is winning why would they risk using chemcial weapons? Aren't you worried its just a ploy by al queda to get us into the war?
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:45 PM   #29
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This is why Obama is requesting further evidence. It's also what the administration is referring to when they release a statement speaking of past intelligence failures that have led to war.

Let the UN verify it, if it turns out to be true, they can organize the intervention. I'm sure we'll be involved, but I would not like our troops leading the charge again.

Never happen. Of course we're going to get involved. Of course we're going to lead it. Add another few hundred or so American deaths to the rolls, all in the name of "stability" in a region that has never had any stability, no matter who was president, D or R.
Until we can control who comes into power we should sit it out no matter what. Then if we go in we go in full force and we decide how the govt transitions. Not AlQueda. So liberals better make sure they know what they are supporting and not just give up their beliefs because its going to be Obama pulling the trigger.
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:54 PM   #30
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Until we can control who comes into power we should sit it out no matter what.
Jesus ****ing Christ.

We are not, nor should we be, the global ****ing dictator.

You're an idiot.
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Old 04-27-2013, 09:20 PM   #31
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It's ridiculous to assume the U.S. is just going to go off into Syria without verification. Cheney is no longer in the WH. The UN, and the US, are going to wait for undeniable proof that convinces the entire international community, including Russia, before they do anything.
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Old 04-27-2013, 09:20 PM   #32
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Jesus ****ing Christ.

We are not, nor should we be, the global ****ing dictator.

You're an idiot.
Hey finally we agree on something.
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Old 04-27-2013, 10:35 PM   #33
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Hey finally we agree on something.
So let them die a horrible death?....how manly of you....no need to worry about the rest of humanity as their lungs and nerve functions are destroyed in seconds by chemical agents. You need to apply for a UN job. They seem to be cut from the same cloth.
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Old 04-27-2013, 10:41 PM   #34
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So let them die a horrible death?....how manly of you....no need to worry about the rest of humanity as their lungs and nerve functions are destroyed in seconds by chemical agents. You need to apply for a UN job. They seem to be cut from the same cloth.
Go crawl back in your hole. You have made your entire career on the blood of others. You are not in a position to preach humanity.
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Old 04-27-2013, 10:48 PM   #35
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Go crawl back in your hole. You have made your entire career on the blood of others. You are not in a position to preach humanity.
Someone has to have the sack to rid the world of dictators. Funny when things get all messy, the libs run and hide like a scared school girl. Then when the bad guy comes after them suddenly they want protection. Syrian leadership deserves a lead infusion. And, humanity continues to exist because there are guys just like me.....you continue to have a voice....give the dems enough time....you won't have one anymore.
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:04 PM   #36
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Listening to libs try and say the UN should do it is pretty funny. Anything but have to take responsibility for crappy foreign policy descisions.
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:31 AM   #37
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What about when Saddam gassed the Kurds. Would have you supported taking him out then? is it just Bush jr waited too long for you to support that? Because he killed just as many Kurds as assad killing civilians now. Also in Africa we have tons of civilians killed in civil wars. Why are liberals so easily brought along for Syria?

Also Syria is winning why would they risk using chemcial weapons? Aren't you worried its just a ploy by al queda to get us into the war?
If Bush senior acted when the Kurds were gassed, yes it would hve be justified. W, Cheney, Rumsfieldand the rest of cronies made **** up to invaded.

No I am not worried Al-Queda is attempting to "lure" the US in, that plan make no sense and they are not the evil geniuses from a Hollywood movie.

As for Africa, you are not paying attention to the fact that US and its allies are deeply involved in attempting to stabilize that area through military and diplomatic support/aid.

Last edited by elsid13; 04-28-2013 at 04:38 AM..
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Old 04-28-2013, 05:01 AM   #38
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If Bush senior acted when the Kurds were gassed, yes it would hve be justified. W, Cheney, Rumsfieldand the rest of cronies made **** up to invaded.

No I am not worried Al-Queda is attempting to "lure" the US in, that plan make no sense and they are not the evil geniuses from a Hollywood movie.

As for Africa, you are not paying attention to the fact that US and its allies are deeply involved in attempting to stabilize that area through military and diplomatic support/aid.
Bush did more for Africa then any other President ever. In fact it's said he may have save 10 million lives. Aids drugs dropped from 4000 a yr to 125 a yr under Bush. What pisses me off is liberals paint him to be not just stupid, but not a good person and its BS. Thats why its so funny when liberals want us to give Obama a break, give him some slack.
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Old 04-28-2013, 05:05 AM   #39
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If Bush senior acted when the Kurds were gassed, yes it would hve be justified. W, Cheney, Rumsfieldand the rest of cronies made **** up to invaded.

No I am not worried Al-Queda is attempting to "lure" the US in, that plan make no sense and they are not the evil geniuses from a Hollywood movie.

As for Africa, you are not paying attention to the fact that US and its allies are deeply involved in attempting to stabilize that area through military and diplomatic support/aid.
No way in hell you want the precedent going forward to anytime civilians get killed by their govt in huge number we step in. What about the millions of prisoners worked to death in N Korea. Do they not deserve a rescue attempt for humanitarian purposes?
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Old 04-28-2013, 05:15 AM   #40
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No way in hell you want the precedent going forward to anytime civilians get killed by their govt in huge number we step in. What about the millions of prisoners worked to death in N Korea. Do they not deserve a rescue attempt for humanitarian purposes?
They do and the US should be attempting to destabilize that regime. And "stepping in" doesn't always means of putting boots on the ground. That is just one option, in Africa the US has provide military advisers, humanitarian aid, and intelligence to help.

Watching evil go unchecked is not acceptable.
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Old 04-28-2013, 06:56 AM   #41
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I don't approve of the US fighting wars to protect oil markets. That's utter bull****. Using technology to reduce our need is the way to go first, on that score. Had we spent the trillion we spent on Iraq on energy technology here at home, we'd have come out ten times better. The US fighting wars for corporate interests is criminal. But when it comes to stopping atrocities, I think we owe it to the concept of civilization to get involved. Every country has that same responsibility if they wish to be counted among the civilized.
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Old 04-28-2013, 08:06 AM   #42
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Someone has to have the sack to rid the world of dictators. Funny when things get all messy, the libs run and hide like a scared school girl. Then when the bad guy comes after them suddenly they want protection. Syrian leadership deserves a lead infusion. And, humanity continues to exist because there are guys just like me.....you continue to have a voice....give the dems enough time....you won't have one anymore.
First of all I am not a dumb ass liberal.

It's arrogant entitled fools like you that think it is your job to rid the world of tyrants but interestingly it's only the tyrants that are sitting on vast oil fields (or affect them) that seem to bother you. So add hypocrite to your list of qualities.
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Old 04-28-2013, 08:15 AM   #43
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They do and the US should be attempting to destabilize that regime. And "stepping in" doesn't always means of putting boots on the ground. That is just one option, in Africa the US has provide military advisers, humanitarian aid, and intelligence to help.

Watching evil go unchecked is not acceptable.
Really, what about these brutal dictators of non oil rich countries?

http://brainz.org/10-most-evil-dictators-on-earth/
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Old 04-28-2013, 08:26 AM   #44
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Someone has to have the sack to rid the world of dictators.
Why not let Israel take care of them? Or is it the same old excuse. Israel can't get their hands dirty because it will escalate things. Better to have America entangle herself and plunge herself further in debt?

What's the point of paying an ally BILLIONS every year then have to spend billions more policing their own back yard?
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Old 04-28-2013, 12:48 PM   #45
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They do and the US should be attempting to destabilize that regime. And "stepping in" doesn't always means of putting boots on the ground. That is just one option, in Africa the US has provide military advisers, humanitarian aid, and intelligence to help.

Watching evil go unchecked is not acceptable.
Only Bush JR did much to help Africa. He's a hero there ya know!
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Old 04-29-2013, 08:35 AM   #46
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Only Bush JR did much to help Africa. He's a hero there ya know!
You are joking, right?
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:57 AM   #47
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You are joking, right?
No i'm not he poured money for aids and has a really high approval rating with Africans. Some Aids experts and activists claim Bush Jr saved over 10 million lives and dropped the price of Aids drugs and their availability to Africans. Even Sir Elton John has said Bush JR did more for aids care then any other world leader in history.
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Old 04-29-2013, 11:26 AM   #48
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No i'm not he poured money for aids and has a really high approval rating with Africans. Some Aids experts and activists claim Bush Jr saved over 10 million lives and dropped the price of Aids drugs and their availability to Africans. Even Sir Elton John has said Bush JR did more for aids care then any other world leader in history.
What a bunch of BS.

I suggest you read Paul O'Neill's account of the Bush administration. It will force to open your eyes about Bush.

O'neill was Bush's first Treasury Secretary. He traveled to Africa and became enthusiastic about helping the Africans help themselves.

O'Neill crunched the numbers and found that for a pittance the US could install wells & pumps and provide clean water to every African village -- dramatically raising the living standard across the continent.

Bush sneered at the idea.

The lack of clean drinking water continues to be one of Africa's biggest problems. Thanks to Bush.

Check it out. Oh I forgot -- you don't read.

MHG

The Price of Loyalty: George W. Bush, the White House, and the Education of Paul O'Neill

by Ron Suskind

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Old 04-29-2013, 11:36 AM   #49
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What a bunch of BS.

I suggest you read Paul O'Neill's account of the Bush administration. It will force to open your eyes about Bush.

O'neill was Bush's first Treasury Secretary. He traveled to Africa and became enthusiastic about helping the Africans help themselves.

O'Neill crunched the numbers and found that for a pittance the US could install wells & pumps and provide clean water to every African village -- dramatically raising the living standard across the continent.

Bush sneered at the idea.

The lack of clean drinking water continues to be one of Africa's biggest problems. Thanks to Bush.

Check it out. Oh I forgot -- you don't read.

MHG

The Price of Loyalty: George W. Bush, the White House, and the Education of Paul O'Neill

by Ron Suskind
That was a good book. I have it lying around here somewhere. It also details how the entire Bush administration, under the control of Cheney, operated on a policy of ideology over facts, at every turn ignoring and attacking any facts that contradicted their dogma. It also tells how Greenspan turned his back on everything he believed in and sold out in order to stay on the Bush gravy train.
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Old 04-29-2013, 10:06 PM   #50
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BUSH jr PEPFAR did more for Africa then probably any leader in the world ever did. Even liberals like Matt Damon admit it and praise him for it.
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