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Old 04-27-2013, 10:59 PM   #26
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Arms lack real definition? Seriously? That's your take?
Put it this way, from the looks of it, he's got a lot of work to do in the weight room. Get's easily washed out of run plays, and doesn't hand-fight very well. His best pass-rush "move" is to avoid contact and use fake direction like a crossover dribble...like I said, he reminds me of a basketball player.

I think once he develops an NFL body, and puts on 10-15 pounds, there is a chance he could develop a nice bull-rush. Couple that with his speed and ability to "dip" around the edge (if he still has it after the ACL), and there is a chance he could become a good player.

At this point, I think he looks unpolished. I wonder why he gets shut-out most of the time? And I definitely wouldn't want him in on run downs for at least a couple years. All to be expected out of a 5th round draft pick, I just hope he contributes something this year.

Glad we have Shaun Phillips.
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:03 PM   #27
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Both of those guys lack the exceptional quickness to play on the edge all three downs, something I see when watching Smith as well.
That's actually the only "exceptional" quality I see. Watch Smith's "dip" against Fluker (RT) for a sack. Von swoops like that (albeit much faster). Most players can't do that.

If Smith can keep his speed, and develop the rest of his game, he could become a force to be reckoned with...but I think that will take a couple years (if ever).
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:04 PM   #28
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Price, you don't have to explain it. I think most understood what you were trying to say and what the common idea was while others may feel the need to get belligerent detracting from the conversation at hand to point the focus back at themselves. It's a common theme with certain folks on this board.
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:14 PM   #29
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Price, you don't have to explain it. I think most understood what you were trying to say and what the common idea was while others may feel the need to get belligerent detracting from the conversation at hand to point the focus back at themselves. It's a common theme with certain folks on this board.
I think at this point most of us realize that price acts like he knows a lot more than he really does. Arms lack definition...lol...
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:30 PM   #30
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Price, you don't have to explain it. I think most understood what you were trying to say and what the common idea was while others may feel the need to get belligerent detracting from the conversation at hand to point the focus back at themselves. It's a common theme with certain folks on this board.
Yeah, I'm used to it. I think my opinions are too blunt. Just state things too "matter of factly", instead of being diplomatic about it. Oh well.

I'm trying to figure out why Quanterus gets blown off the ball like a dandelion seed. The only thing I can come up with, is that he needs to spend a lot more time in the weight room.

The problem is, dudes are either naturally strong, or they're not, so I don't think it's something that can be fixed. A lot of it has to do with leverage and angles too, which is an innate sense...and hand fighting...kinda like wrestling.

I guess the dude needs more wrestling, and less basketball

Last edited by pricejj; 04-27-2013 at 11:38 PM..
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:38 PM   #31
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Yeah, I'm used to it. I think my opinions are too blunt. Just state things too "matter of factly", instead of being diplomatic about it. Oh well.

I'm trying to figure out why Quanterus gets blown off the ball like a dandelion seed. The only thing I can come up with, is that he needs to spend a lot more time in the weight room.

The problem is, dudes are either naturally strong, or their not, so I don't think it's something that can be fixed.
It isn't that your opinions are too blunt, it's that you act like an expert when you clearly aren't.

Smith is an undersized speed-rusher who plays too high at times. There is no mystery as to why he is much better at rushing the QB than defending the run. And honestly it's not nearly as bad as you make it sound.
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:47 PM   #32
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It isn't that your opinions are too blunt, it's that you act like an expert when you clearly aren't.

Smith is an undersized speed-rusher who plays too high at times. There is no mystery as to why he is much better at rushing the QB than defending the run. And honestly it's not nearly as bad as you make it sound.
I don't pretend to be an expert at all. And this ain't rocket science.

Yeah, skinny speed-rusher. Sounds about right. Can't afford to have guys getting owned in the run game while in Nickel Defense. That's a liability. I guess that makes Smith strictly a "package" guy for now (in my book). Should be able to figure out how good of a pass-rusher he is in the first few days of training camp.

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Old 04-28-2013, 12:08 AM   #33
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I don't pretend to be an expert at all. And this ain't rocket science.

Yeah, skinny speed-rusher. Sounds about right. Can't afford to have guys getting owned in the run game while in Nickel Defense. That's a liability. I guess that makes Smith strictly a "package" guy for now (in my book). Should be able to figure out how good of a pass-rusher he is in the first few days of training camp.
There's such a thing as obvious passing situations. Smith will offer immediate value in those situations I suspect. I'm not saying he shouldn't strive to get stronger and more stout against the run or develop some power pass rush moves, but you seem to be undervaluing how good a speed rusher the kid is. He was a very good pick. Pretty much as good as Damontre Moore which so many wanted us to use our 1st rounder on, and probably would've gone in the same neighborhood (2nd-3rd round) had he not had the injury issues.
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Old 04-28-2013, 12:10 AM   #34
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Not sure if you comprehend. Wide shoulders, big frame, = big body. He's nowhere near his final weight and in fact, he probably won't play next year. It will be a red-shirt campaign for him. He needs to sit, heal, learn, focus on technique and add weight so he can compete in 14'. Fill out that "BIG BODY FRAME" he has and he'll end up around 275-285 carrying his weight well. When that happens, he can play DE on run downs and move inside on pass rushing downs, exactly what we do with Ayers & Wolfe. Both of those guys lack the exceptional quickness to play on the edge all three downs, something I see when watching Smith as well.
his frame is likely to be able to expand but i don't think he'll ever be stout in the areas of his body he would need to be in to ever play DT or inside.
he looks more like a 260-270 type that wears it well but looks lanky and a bit small.

i don't think he can hold 275-285 and play as a very explosive player.
that type of weight gain is normally seen in the jump from HS to college.
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Old 04-28-2013, 12:16 AM   #35
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Remember what they said about Doom. Too small and stinks vs the run so he slipped to the 4th round. But we managed to work around that to get pressure on QB. This kid will only have to play 3rd downs here and there no big deal. But he looks a little like Greg Ellis who played for the Cowboys and the Raiders back in the 90's. I think he was about 260 and could really get after the QB. Greg Ellis under the radar NFL players sort of but thats what happens when you have to go play for the Raiders at the end of your career. He did get his 10-12 sacks a yr though.
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Old 04-28-2013, 12:22 AM   #36
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I love football season. I love the Broncos. And then the part a lot of you don't like.....I really do love it when we hurt other players. Remember when Dennis Smith knocked out Nate Lewis from the Chargers at Mile High that one yr? They had to take his facemask off it was all crushed into his bloody face. Ahhhh the good ole days.

I still say if our defense is to take the next leap we need our dirty player. We need that nasty guy who gets other players out of their game. People around here don't like to admit what Romo meant to our Superbowl teams but i still think he was vital. Also those big hits from Atwater back then served notice. We just don't seem to have a true intimidator outside of Von and truthfully he's sort of nice. He seems like the kind of player RT are like well Vons a great guy I don't mind too much he just crushed my QB. He's so affable!.
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Old 04-28-2013, 12:24 AM   #37
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We need a player on defense with an on field problem. You know the kind of problem teams had when they went against Dan 'tear your acl" neil on our oline back then. I thought a little bit last yr we let the Patriots push us around last yr. That series they ran it down our throats is why I think Elway drafted Sly for DT.
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Old 04-28-2013, 12:26 AM   #38
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Remember what they said about Doom. Too small and stinks vs the run so he slipped to the 4th round. But we managed to work around that to get pressure on QB. This kid will only have to play 3rd downs here and there no big deal. But he looks a little like Greg Ellis who played for the Cowboys and the Raiders back in the 90's. I think he was about 260 and could really get after the QB. Greg Ellis under the radar NFL players sort of but thats what happens when you have to go play for the Raiders at the end of your career. He did get his 10-12 sacks a yr though.
Doom always had good use of his height for leverage though. he was just short. but he would get under you and blow up your balance and leverage advantage.
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Old 04-28-2013, 12:31 AM   #39
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For some reason, run defense from the RDE position is really in vogue this off-season on this board. It's not that important.

Look at what happens when a team gets a Freeney-type guy: he becomes a 3 down player and the team works to find talent to surround him with.

Now, look at what happens when a team gets an Ayers-type guy: the team works to make sure he sees as little playing time as possible.

I believe that the plan is for Smith to play nearly every down as soon as possible. Phillips was brought in in case he's not ready right away. Ayers is not in consideration for starting, unless his training camp is mind-blowing.
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Old 04-28-2013, 12:36 AM   #40
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For some reason, run defense from the RDE position is really in vogue this off-season on this board. It's not that important.

Look at what happens when a team gets a Freeney-type guy: he becomes a 3 down player and the team works to find talent to surround him with.

Now, look at what happens when a team gets an Ayers-type guy: the team works to make sure he sees as little playing time as possible.

I believe that the plan is for Smith to play nearly every down as soon as possible. Phillips was brought in in case he's not ready right away. Ayers is not in consideration for starting, unless his training camp is mind-blowing.
Interesting speculation. I'm doubtful you are right, but it should be interesting to see how it plays out. With how stout the rest of line looks right now I definitely think the Broncos can afford to have a bit of a liability in run defense at RDE, so if Smith impresses in camp and preseason I could see your scenario being a possibility.
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Old 04-28-2013, 12:46 AM   #41
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For some reason, run defense from the RDE position is really in vogue this off-season on this board. It's not that important.

Look at what happens when a team gets a Freeney-type guy: he becomes a 3 down player and the team works to find talent to surround him with.

Now, look at what happens when a team gets an Ayers-type guy: the team works to make sure he sees as little playing time as possible.

I believe that the plan is for Smith to play nearly every down as soon as possible. Phillips was brought in in case he's not ready right away. Ayers is not in consideration for starting, unless his training camp is mind-blowing.
it's not in vogue, but the Broncos D and most others rely on getting some pressure on the QB and Ayers isn't really adept at that. he plays a lot against the run and in situations where it's not an obvious pass.
but he isn't enough of a pass rusher to keep on the field on all downs.
a lot of his best rushes last year came when he was either moved inside or was used on stunts.
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Old 04-28-2013, 12:55 AM   #42
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There's such a thing as obvious passing situations. Smith will offer immediate value in those situations I suspect. I'm not saying he shouldn't strive to get stronger and more stout against the run or develop some power pass rush moves, but you seem to be undervaluing how good a speed rusher the kid is. He was a very good pick. Pretty much as good as Damontre Moore which so many wanted us to use our 1st rounder on, and probably would've gone in the same neighborhood (2nd-3rd round) had he not had the injury issues.
I'm not saying it's a bad pick. Smith in the 5th round is great value. Elway and Fox are saying he's "here to rush the passer" too, so they view him like we do. Pretty much one dimensional. You can tell they know what they want out of the guy...even if I minimize the value of a situational player. It's kinda like the Trevathan pick...you can only play him in certain situations. Can't wait to see how Trevathan develops. Smith's development may follow a similar trajectory.


I see Damontre Moore as a complete DE, because he's good rushing the passer, and against the run. Coughlin is better at picking DE's than anyone in the NFL. I suspect Moore is next in a long line of Giant's phenoms.
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Old 04-28-2013, 01:07 AM   #43
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For some reason, run defense from the RDE position is really in vogue this off-season on this board. It's not that important.
Obviously, it's important to have a complete player who can do both. Dumervil, Demarcus Ware, James Harrison, Terrell Suggs, John Abraham, are all complete DE's (to name a few).

Offenses are starting to go no huddle more and more. Having versatile, complete players is by far more preferable.

Like Tom Brady said, after beating the Broncos in 2012, "They had a lot of light players in Nickel, so we ran on them. When they had their base defense in, we threw the ball".

Bellichick, though I hate him, has spent his last two top picks on players that are (theoretically) complete DE's.

If Quanterus Smith is in, I'm running straight at him. At least we have Shaun Phillips, now.
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Old 04-28-2013, 01:17 AM   #44
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I see Damontre Moore as a complete DE, because he's good rushing the passer, and against the run. Coughlin is better at picking DE's than anyone in the NFL. I suspect Moore is next in a long line of Giant's phenoms.
Except he isn't. He has serious issues with getting overpowered in the running game just like Smith. And for someone who was going on about Smith needing to hit the weight room I find it amusing that you like a 12 rep bench press guy so much.
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Old 04-28-2013, 01:29 AM   #45
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I love football season. I love the Broncos. And then the part a lot of you don't like.....I really do love it when we hurt other players. Remember when Dennis Smith knocked out Nate Lewis from the Chargers at Mile High that one yr? They had to take his facemask off it was all crushed into his bloody face. Ahhhh the good ole days.

I still say if our defense is to take the next leap we need our dirty player. We need that nasty guy who gets other players out of their game. People around here don't like to admit what Romo meant to our Superbowl teams but i still think he was vital. Also those big hits from Atwater back then served notice. We just don't seem to have a true intimidator outside of Von and truthfully he's sort of nice. He seems like the kind of player RT are like well Vons a great guy I don't mind too much he just crushed my QB. He's so affable!.
So much has changed since the days of Smith/Atwater... in today's game, they would be getting fined and/or suspended on a weekly basis. Nevermind what Goodell would do to the likes of Deacon Jones, Jack Lambert, Jack Tatum or Dick Butkus.
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:08 AM   #46
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Except he isn't. He has serious issues with getting overpowered in the running game just like Smith. And for someone who was going on about Smith needing to hit the weight room I find it amusing that you like a 12 rep bench press guy so much.
Completely different players...19 reps, longer arms. Moore is actually really good against the run.

But yeah, excited to see what Q. Smith has in him. He looked great against Alabama...gotta give him that. The dude is active. Get him in a real strength and conditioning program, and the sky is the limit. Maybe it's all about hard work and dedication with him...just like everybody else.
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:16 AM   #47
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Completely different players...19 reps, longer arms. Moore is actually really good against the run.
You can't be serious...
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:52 AM   #48
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So I have learned lots in this thread.. Smith sucks.. And Moore is good against the run..
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Old 04-28-2013, 04:31 AM   #49
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his frame is likely to be able to expand but i don't think he'll ever be stout in the areas of his body he would need to be in to ever play DT or inside.
he looks more like a 260-270 type that wears it well but looks lanky and a bit small.

i don't think he can hold 275-285 and play as a very explosive player.
that type of weight gain is normally seen in the jump from HS to college.
That weight/strength gain is usually result of a good training staff and weight room. Something I doubt Western Kentucky has. He will need to get with the strength/training staff and got on a good professional strength program.
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Old 04-28-2013, 11:00 AM   #50
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Obviously, it's important to have a complete player who can do both. Dumervil, Demarcus Ware, James Harrison, Terrell Suggs, John Abraham, are all complete DE's (to name a few).

Offenses are starting to go no huddle more and more. Having versatile, complete players is by far more preferable.

Like Tom Brady said, after beating the Broncos in 2012, "They had a lot of light players in Nickel, so we ran on them. When they had their base defense in, we threw the ball".

Bellichick, though I hate him, has spent his last two top picks on players that are (theoretically) complete DE's.

If Quanterus Smith is in, I'm running straight at him. At least we have Shaun Phillips, now.
Most of those are 3-4 OLBs. The run responsibilities are quite different from a typical 4-3 DE. They are closer to the responsibilities Doom had playing 9 tech, though.

I really don't think we should be trying to emulate the 25th ranked defense, especially when they had trouble applying pressure all season.
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