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Old 04-18-2013, 06:04 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by Conklin View Post
JCMElway
Spent $62,500
Leftover from UDFA Round 1: $43,200

Over Budget: $19,300
Check your math, sir.

Cave -- $20,300
Horton -- $12,200
Travis Johnson -- $5000
TOTAL -- $37,500
Amount to spend in UDFA 2 -- $62,500

If there's another UDFA I won in round one that I missed, let me know and the DT from Texas is yours!
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:17 PM   #177
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Here's the point you're missing... if your evaluation skills were so good regarding Worrilow, you would've picked him up earlier. When it meant something.

But you didn't think enough of him when it cost a draft pick, and you didn't think enough of him in the first UDFA round when you spent your supplied money.

You did, on the other hand, think enough of him to use money you already spent in the initial round and lost on (which eliminates a large portion of the consequence of not bidding enough) on this guy.

Again, this is ****ing stupid. Brb submitting a cut and paste of prospects #300-500 and then claiming it's because I'm "hardcore".
Wrong... I didn't "discover" Worrilow until after our initial UDFA round. Had I known about him earlier, he would have been a candidate for my 7th rounder.

In any case, I'm not sure why you're offended by us selecting 15 to 20 UDFAs. The NFL has 90-man training camp rosters, so most teams will bring in a similar number of rookie free agents.

And... I've got a 1350-man big board right now, with roughly 900 players unselected. I've done the legwork and at the very least reviewed the college stats and pro day workout results for each one. So, yeah... I've put in quite a bit of work on this, and claim bragging rights if some of my guys end up making it in the NFL

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Old 04-18-2013, 06:23 PM   #178
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1. Lane Johnson, OT, Oklahoma, First round
2. Eddie Lacy, RB, Alabama, Second Round
3. Dwayne Gratz, CB, UConn, 4th Round
4. Garrett Gilkey, OG, Chadron State, 5th Round
5. Michael Buchanan, DE, Illinois, 5th Round
6. Cobi Hamilton, WR, Arkansas 5th Round
7. Brandon Magee, CB, Miami, 6th Round
8. Robert Lester, S, Alabama, 6th Round
9. Sean Renfree, QB, Duke, 6th Round
10. Steve Beauharnais, ILB, Rutgers, 7th Round
11. Dustin Hopkins, K, Florida State, 7th Round

UDFA pickups:
Braxston Cave, C, Notre Dame
Wes Horton,DE, USC
Travis Johnson, DE/OLB, San Jose

UDFA 2
Ontario McCaleb, RB, Auburn
Elvis Fisher, OT, Mizzou
Jack Doyle, TE, Western Kentucky
Demontre Hurst, CB, Oklahoma
Brandon Moore, DT, Texas

Overall, I am very pleased with this draft. A lot of my targets kept getting snagged, but I guess that's a good thing to know that at least I am on the same page as my fellow Maners as to talent evaluation. Johnson and Lacy will come in and see significant playing time right away. Gratz will probably crack the starting lineup, and Magee should see some time in the slot. Crazily enough, a 6th round pick, Lester, may also be able to walk right in to the starting lineup, while Buchanan and Beauharnais will see time in certain packages. And with the Bolts' weak ass receiving corp, Hamilton will be challenging for playing time as well.

Renfree was necessary as the Chargers may need a backup plan if Rivers implodes again. And it never sucks to draft the best player at his position, Hopkins, in round 7.
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:24 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by JCMElway View Post
Check your math, sir.

Cave -- $20,300
Horton -- $12,200
Travis Johnson -- $5000
TOTAL -- $37,500
Amount to spend in UDFA 2 -- $62,500

If there's another UDFA I won in round one that I missed, let me know and the DT from Texas is yours!
I added up the money from the players you lost out on. Did you not spend the full 100k?
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:26 PM   #180
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Analysis
Strengths
Tough-as-nails center with good overall strength and the intelligence to lead an NFL line. Gives good effort to sustain run blocks through the play, whether it’s a reach block or chasing down Mike linebackers when asked. Good enough feet to move to correct blocking angle while engaged. Displays bend and a punch to knock linebackers away from the play in space. Flashes mirror ability when man-up in pass pro, won’t be bull-rushed when in balance. Brings a big punch to help either of his guards, knocks defenders sideways. Reliable shotgun snapper, hands get up quickly to handle tackles trying to beat him off the snap.
Weaknesses
Not overly athletic and possesses average size and strength. Stiff, lacks quickness, and balance. Stops his feet and bends at the waist in one-on-one blocks, better tackles can pull down and disengage. Quicker second-level targets will avoid his advance or get back into play after initial contact. Struggles to recover when initially beaten.
NFL Comparison
Bill Nagy
Bottom Line
Growing up about 20 minutes from South Bend and being named after a former Notre Dame player made it quite likely a high school All-American like Cave would suit up for the Irish. Cave earned third-team All-American honors his senior year in part due to his toughness, and intangibles. However, Cave isn't very athletic, or overally strong. He's not very quick, and rarely recovers when beaten. In order to improve, he will have to be more efficient in winning with his hands, and maintaining adequate balance.

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Old 04-18-2013, 06:27 PM   #181
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Wrong... I didn't "discover" Worrilow until after our initial UDFA round. Had I known about him earlier, he would have been a candidate for my 7th rounder.

In any case, I'm not sure why you're offended by us selecting 15 to 20 UDFAs. The NFL has 90-man training camp rosters, so most teams will bring in a similar number of rookie free agents.

And... I've got a 1350-man big board right now, with roughly 900 players unselected. I've done the legwork and at the very least reviewed the college stats and pro day workout results for each one. So, yeah... I've put in quite a bit of work on this, and claim bragging rights if some of my guys end up making it in the NFL.... a-hole.
You have the Steelers taking 29 rookies to camp.

That completely proves my point regarding this being pray and spray and entirely stupid.
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:28 PM   #182
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I added up the money from the players you lost out on. Did you not spend the full 100k?
He had bid on a few Invalid (previously unselected) players in the first UDFA round, so that's probably why the math didn't add up for you.
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:30 PM   #183
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Wes Horton, DE, USC

Analysis
Strengths
Height and length are NFL-quality. Long strides allow him to eat up grass in a hurry when in pass rush mode. Active in pursuit, hard-worker. Flashes quick hands. Turns the corner and closes on the quarterback if his initial pass rush move works, and will get his long arms into passing lanes whenever possible. When uncovered, has the quickness to make offensive lines pay for leaving him be on inside runs.

Weaknesses
Quickness off the snap is inconsistent, can be the last one moving at times. His tall, somewhat lean build allows him to be moved by tackles and tight ends too easily in the run game. Has some movement skills as a stand-up rusher, but plays high and often off-balance, bends at the waist to make tackles, and his short-area quickness to contain on the edge is only adequate.

NFL Comparison
Austen Lane

Bottom Line
The son of a former NFL and USFL offensive tackle (and original member of the “American Gladiators” television show) has played since his freshman year, but has never been a tremendously impactful performer. He's got the height and length, works hard, and can turn the corner. However, he's an uncoordinated player who will often find himself off balance, or lunging. Doesn't project as a a great pass rusher or run defender, will likely need to contribute on special teams.

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Old 04-18-2013, 06:33 PM   #184
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You have the Steelers taking 29 rookies to camp.

That completely proves my point regarding this being pray and spray and entirely stupid.
1) The steelers will definitely take at least 25 rookies to camp. As will every team in the NFL.

2) sure, I like my drafted players more than my UDFA players, and I also like my UDFA players more than my UDFA 2 players. Guess what? I like my UDFA 2 players more than the 900 players remaining on my board. That doesn't make it spray and pray, it actually replicates what NFL teams do in real life (which is the point of this whole exercise).

3) You're a mean drunk.
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:37 PM   #185
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Travis Johnson, OLB/DE, San Jose State

Strengths: Better-than-advertised athlete with natural flexibility to bend and play with leverage and low pad level. Active and competitive, always hustling with top effort. Smart and has a strong understanding of the game. Versatile experience with his hand on the ground and standing up at linebacker. Quick first step and uses his hands at the point. Uses his eyes well and shows smooth change of direction to quickly adjust. Strong production as a starter, setting a new conference record for sacks (31). Strong-willed and a hard worker on and off the field.

Weaknesses: Tweener size and strength, struggling to stack and shed. Hesitates at times and needs to play more decisive. Lack of length is exposed too often with only average measureables. Gets hung up on blocks and needs to do a better job avoiding blockers instead of taking them on. Needs to show a better sense of his surroundings to anticipate and not be caught off-balance.

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Old 04-18-2013, 06:41 PM   #186
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1) The steelers will definitely take at least 25 rookies to camp. As will every team in the NFL.

2) sure, I like my drafted players more than my UDFA players, and I also like my UDFA players more than my UDFA 2 players. Guess what? I like my UDFA 2 players more than the 900 players remaining on my board. That doesn't make it spray and pray, it actually replicates what NFL teams do in real life (which is the point of this whole exercise).

3) You're a mean drunk.
1. That's over 10 more than they brought last year.

2. lol, no

3. Keep crying. It's still stupid and you know it is.
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:43 PM   #187
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Onterio McCalebb, RB, Auburn

FAST! Onterio McCalebb flirted with NFL Combine history for an hour or so Sunday.

In his second attempt of the 40-yard dash, McCalebb clocked an unofficial time of 4.21 seconds, which is three one-hundredths of a second fewer than Chris Johnson's record-setting 4.24-second run in 2008.

It was later revealed that McCalebb's official time was 4.34 seconds, which tied West Virginia's Tavon Austin for second-fastest of the 2013 NFL Combine.

Analysis
Strengths
Very fast, impressive open field burst. Light feet. Smooth hips. Impressive stop-start and change of direction ability. Can line up in the slot. Catches the ball off his frame and can reel in difficult passes. Gets his head turned quickly after the catch. Follows his blockers well on screens and swing passes. Kick return skills.
Weaknesses
Extremely frail build, especially in the legs. Doesn't display any kind of power in between the tackles, looks to bounce the ball outside. Fails to break many tackles. Not overly sudden with open-field moves, mainly relies on speed. Not asked to block much, but struggles when he stays in to block.
NFL Comparison
Dexter McCluster
Bottom Line
McCalebb is extremely fast, and does some impressive things when given space. He also follows his blockers quite well, which should help him as a kick returner. McCalebb also has the skills to make a mark as a receiver, but will need to prove capable of handling blocking assignments if he wants to stay on the field. His speed and return potential could get him drafted late.

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Old 04-18-2013, 06:48 PM   #188
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1. That's over 10 more than they brought last year.

2. lol, no

3. Keep crying. It's still stupid and you know it is.
1) Training camp roster sizes increased from 80 to 90 last year.

2) Hard to come up with a rebuttal for that one....

3) Seriously, what's with the aggression? We all clearly enjoy doing this and spend a lot of time on it.... Why be so insulting? I normally enjoy your sense of humor, but you're not being funny, you're being rude.
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:50 PM   #189
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Elvis Fisher, OT, Mizzou

Analysis
Pass blocking: Solid pass protector who plays with a wide base. Lacks a fluid, quick kick-slide but does not get beaten outside. Flashes quickness to down-block and still pushes wide rushers or late blitzers around the pocket. Cuts down ends quickly and thoroughly on quick passes to his side. Gives too much ground against bull rushes, is always moving backwards and must anchor more quickly against NFL ends. Overextends to sustain at times instead of punching and recoiling. Inconsistent recovery speed, may struggle there at the next level. Used as tight end on unbalanced line.

Run blocking: Good strength as run-blocker on the edge, displays power and footwork to direct oncoming defenders out of running lanes. Gets after his man and stays on the block through the whistle, resetting his hands and moving his feet. Almost always in two-point stance in Missouri's pass-blocking scheme, looks naturally strong and quick with his hand down.

Pulling/trapping: Not asked to trap or pull in Missouri's pass-blocking scheme. Looks to have enough foot speed to trap inside if moved to guard, has aggression and willingness to sustain to knock out linebackers in his path. May have difficulty, however, doing more than get hand on inside targets due to average agility and flexibility.

Initial Quickness: Possesses adequate speed getting out of his two-point stance. Does not lose initial contact battle very often, but technique must be perfect to stay with quicker NFL ends. Capable reach-blocker, can direct quick tackles past the ballcarrier.

Downfield: Used in front of receiver screens, hits multiple targets and will sustain once latched on. Lacks the quickness to adjust to quicker defenders in space, will lunge and miss.

Intangibles: Media-friendly talker. Came to Missouri as a hard worker and has only continued to improve in the weight room and practice field. Gives full effort every play on the field.

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Old 04-18-2013, 06:53 PM   #190
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Jack Doyle, TE, Western Kentucky


Analysis
Strengths
Big target, with a powerful build. Fires off the line of scrimmage, shows good explosiveness in his first couple of steps. Catches the ball away from his frame. Has the flexibility to contort to make the tough catch. Sent in motion a lot, works well on the move, showcasing plus mobility. Find soft spots in the zone, and has enough speed to threaten the seam. Physical blocker. Locks arms out and keeps his feet moving when engaged. Mirrors well as a pass protector, sells play fakes.

Weaknesses
Not tremendously fast. Has some issues in getting off the press. Will play to high as a blocker at times, resulting in defenders getting into his chest and jolting him. Too often finds himself overextended as a blocker, makes it easy for defenders to slip off. Needs to add more strength, especially in his lower body.

NFL Comparison
Brent Celek

Bottom Line
The first-team All-Sun Belt tight end is a big target, and fluid athlete. Doyle adjusts to passes like a much smaller player. However, he doesn't adequately use his size as a blocker. While he doesn't have great speed, he has enough to challenge the seams. When this is combined with his ability to find openings in zones, he will likely be a mid-round selection.

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Old 04-18-2013, 07:00 PM   #191
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Demontre Hurst, CB, Oklahoma

http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2...st-cb-oklahoma

Just so you know: Demontre Hurst isn't the sexiest or flashiest player, and if you have no interest in reading about prospects who are slated to go much later in the draft -- if at all -- then this post isn't for you. But if you enjoy the process of scouting players who aren't household names, all while hoping to potentially unearth that hidden gem who's been otherwise overlooked and/or disregarded, then follow me down the rabbit hole.

Overview: I decided I wanted to study Demontre Hurst closer and write a scouting report on him because, despite not getting the same hype as secondary teammates Tony Jefferson and Aaron Colvin, he always flashed during my live viewings of Oklahoma games. Overall opinion: A nice late-round sleeper/UDFA prospect. Interesting player whose tough, physical style belies his size. A reliable, consistent, game-in-game-out performer. Unique measurements in terms of arm length and wingspan for 5'9" height, which are even more notable when combined with 37" vertical jump. Similar to his stats, Hurst plays a solid, steady game; not the sexiest or flashiest player, but he gets the job done. Tremendous asset at LOS, against the run and is one of -- if not THE -- best tacklers of all the CBs I've studied thus far. More comfortable attacking and moving forward than he is retreating and shadowing in coverage. Size and speed could end up being prohibitive limitations in NFL, but I could just as easily see him developing into a viable #2/3. I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable betting against him.


Analysis
Strengths
Hurst plays hard, and is willing to support in the run game. Quick feet help him move effortlessly forward or backwards to stay with receivers all over the field. Flashes the zone awareness to find and make plays against a second receiver coming into his area. Possesses fast hands to knock away passes, and works hard to rip out the ball as the receiver tries to rein it in.

Weaknesses
Won't be able to play outside in the NFL. Slender frame. Doesn't possess adequete strength to challenge receivers like he did in college. Will get locked onto blocks in the running game. Bringing down bigger ballcarriers is also an issue for him, as receivers can spin out of his tackle attempts even when he closes fast and is in position to make the play.

NFL Comparison
Dominique Franks

Bottom Line
Hurst is a gritty defender who plays with a high motor. He possess a slender frame, and will struggle with the physical aspects of the game. His quick feet combined with his aggressive plays gives a shot at playing the slot in the NFL.

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Old 04-18-2013, 07:04 PM   #192
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Jack Doyle, TE, Western Kentucky


Analysis
Strengths
Big target, with a powerful build. Fires off the line of scrimmage, shows good explosiveness in his first couple of steps. Catches the ball away from his frame. Has the flexibility to contort to make the tough catch. Sent in motion a lot, works well on the move, showcasing plus mobility. Find soft spots in the zone, and has enough speed to threaten the seam. Physical blocker. Locks arms out and keeps his feet moving when engaged. Mirrors well as a pass protector, sells play fakes.

Weaknesses
Not tremendously fast. Has some issues in getting off the press. Will play to high as a blocker at times, resulting in defenders getting into his chest and jolting him. Too often finds himself overextended as a blocker, makes it easy for defenders to slip off. Needs to add more strength, especially in his lower body.

NFL Comparison
Brent Celek

Bottom Line
The first-team All-Sun Belt tight end is a big target, and fluid athlete. Doyle adjusts to passes like a much smaller player. However, he doesn't adequately use his size as a blocker. While he doesn't have great speed, he has enough to challenge the seams. When this is combined with his ability to find openings in zones, he will likely be a mid-round selection.
You jumped me on Doyle in the 2nd UDFA round.... I love everything about him (great career stats, three-time team captain) EXCEPT the fact that he attended the Senior Bowl, but then wasn't invited to the combine. That's usually a huge red flag that scouts don't think he's gonna make it in the big leagues. Also, no results were released from his pro day, which is a bit odd....
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:06 PM   #193
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Brandon Moore, DT, Texas

STRENGTHS: Naturally large man with long limbs and good overall weight distribution. Scheme versatile. Flashes a powerful bull rush to push the pocket. Possesses just average burst but shows surprising straight-line speed once he gets going. Untapped potential.

WEAKNESSES: Moore has just average quickness off the snap and plays higher than scouts would like, negating his strength, at times. He lacks top athleticism and needs a clear lane to close on the ball. He suffered a neck injury against Oklahoma (2012) which caused him to be carted off the field and be sent to a local hospital for precautionary purposes. Medical reports will be important

COMPARIES TO: Kevin Vickerson, DT, Denver Broncos -- Like the former Michigan State standout, Moore possesses the length and strength to warrant development as a defensive tackle for the 4-3 or as a five technique defensive end.

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Old 04-18-2013, 07:13 PM   #194
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1) Training camp roster sizes increased from 80 to 90 last year.

2) Hard to come up with a rebuttal for that one....

3) Seriously, what's with the aggression? We all clearly enjoy doing this and spend a lot of time on it.... Why be so insulting? I normally enjoy your sense of humor, but you're not being funny, you're being rude.
1) Right, and with the same size camp roster, they took 10 less

2) You don't see how it devalues the original UDFA round when missed bids just become new players? Do you think there's a big drop off between UDFA round talent and UDFA round TWO talent?

3) Because you're making a stupid argument. Instead of saying, "Okay, that's true, but it's a fun way to keep going", you're instead arguing something that's totally bull****. So get as sensitive as you want to get... it's still nothing shy of stupid.
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Old 04-18-2013, 07:29 PM   #195
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Rev. do you have a suggestion for next year's UDFA?
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Old 04-18-2013, 08:16 PM   #196
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Rev. do you have a suggestion for next year's UDFA?
It depends on the goal.

The goal is recreating the reality, and because of that, it stops being even a remotely accurate mock-up once you start losing participation. That's the UDFA round is a little silly to start with.

Going to UDFA 2 with single digit participation and also having it reward people who LOST bids in the initial UDFA round? That's ****ing stupid from head to toe.

But AS I STATED ORIGINALLY (before people started reaching the verge of tears ):

If it's for anyone who wants to prolong the event and kill some time having fun, obviously the way this was done is fine.

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Old 04-18-2013, 09:07 PM   #197
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It depends on the goal.

The goal is recreating the reality, and because of that, it stops being even a remotely accurate mock-up once you start losing participation. That's the UDFA round is a little silly to start with.

Going to UDFA 2 with single digit participation and also having it reward people who LOST bids in the initial UDFA round? That's ****ing stupid from head to toe.

But AS I STATED ORIGINALLY (before people started reaching the verge of tears ):

If it's for anyone who wants to prolong the event and kill some time having fun, obviously the way this was done is fine.



Hey, dude, I've got a question: are you a fat guy with downs or do you just look like it?
OK... OK... let's de-escalate this a bit. We've obviously caught each other is a pissy mood, let's not burn any bridges here.

Check out the thread I just posted in the draft forum-- it's related to this, but much more civil
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:29 PM   #198
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Agreed. I find it amazing that we get 32+ guys with busy lives to get through all 7 rounds of a mock. It's a huge commitment for everyone. I'm glad we have a group of fans who are into it and willing to participate.

The UDFA round to me is gravy. Anything extra we get, any extra amount of fun we can squeeze out, is great. We've never set up the UDFA round to be mandatory and ultra-realistic. Heck, our draft with no future picks or player trades can't be realistic. we could work in all of the ultra-detailed parts of this, but everyone is busy and I don't think we would have a high degree of success.

I don't know what the mock and UDFA rounds are for everyone else, but for me it's fun, informative, and an interactive way to talk draft and football during a long offseason. I know its not super close to the way the NFL does things. That's fine with me, this format seems to serve our purposes.

If we can come up with cool tweaks and ways to make it better, fantastic. Otherwise, it seems everyone is having a good time and enjoying the draft process.

Last edited by JCMElway; 04-18-2013 at 09:33 PM..
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:32 PM   #199
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hahaha is this thing still going on?
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Old 04-27-2013, 03:11 AM   #200
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The New England Patriots sign UDFA Juron Harmon S Rutgers $5000
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