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Old 04-15-2013, 01:51 PM   #51
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you can decriminalize possession and not run afoul. You can't though let people start producing it and taxing it without running afoul of international law.
You're all over the map on this, and aren't able to solidify any real stance or coherent idea.

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Old 04-15-2013, 05:33 PM   #52
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You're all over the map on this, and aren't able to solidify any real stance or coherent idea.

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Why? All i am saying is one reason a liberal like Obama may not like legalization is because marijunana is included in a lot of international agreements we have to battle drugs. Also he probably does think it won't be good for the overall health of the nation even though alcohol probably worst. I'm not all over the map i said that many drug trafficking treaties we have with the international community have marijuana listed along with other drugs. Do you deny that? because its a fact. My point is Obama probably doesn't want to deal with having to change those agreements just so weed can be legal at the fed level. Better and easier to just not enforce the law.

Thats why i like the idea of decriminalization over legalization. Its easier.

Also I don't like the idea of a huge surtax on weed or govt regulations no how strong it can be which is what they do when they get involved. Then my last point has always been the tax windfall wont be what legalization proponents think. I heard 100 billion a yr in one article lol.
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:55 PM   #53
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Why? All i am saying is one reason a liberal like Obama may not like legalization is because marijunana is included in a lot of international agreements we have to battle drugs. Also he probably does think it won't be good for the overall health of the nation even though alcohol probably worst. I'm not all over the map i said that many drug trafficking treaties we have with the international community have marijuana listed along with other drugs. Do you deny that? because its a fact. My point is Obama probably doesn't want to deal with having to change those agreements just so weed can be legal at the fed level. Better and easier to just not enforce the law.

Thats why i like the idea of decriminalization over legalization. Its easier.

Also I don't like the idea of a huge surtax on weed or govt regulations no how strong it can be which is what they do when they get involved. Then my last point has always been the tax windfall wont be what legalization proponents think. I heard 100 billion a yr in one article lol.
So you want to keep the money flowing into the bank accounts of drug cartels. Splendid idea.

And what right does this or any government have to tell me what I can put in my own body as long as I'm not endangering anybody else?

F--k the international treaties. The entire war on drugs has got to go.

That's why I like the idea of legalization over decriminalization.
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Old 04-16-2013, 02:11 AM   #54
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Wait a minute Lone Bolt is saying the whole war on drugs should go fed. I thought no one was saying coke should also be legal? Sounds like Lone Bolt is.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:06 AM   #55
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Wait a minute Lone Bolt is saying the whole war on drugs should go fed. I thought no one was saying coke should also be legal? Sounds like Lone Bolt is.
The only substances that I'm in favor of continued prohibition are those that so severely impair judgment and alter behavior that the mere act of taking them seriously endangers others. PCP and maybe meth are in that category IMO.

All other substances should be legalized and regulated.

Yes IMO the war on drugs should be almost completely scrapped in favor of a harm-reduction model. Governments need to stop treating us like children.

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Old 04-16-2013, 11:15 AM   #56
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The only substances that I'm in favor of continued prohibition are those that so severely impair judgment and alter behavior that the mere act of taking them seriously endangers others. PCP and maybe meth are in that category IMO.

All other substances should be legalized and regulated.

Yes IMO the war on drugs should be almost completely scrapped in favor of a harm-reduction model. Governments need to stop treating us like children.
how about acid, mushrooms, dmt, peyote?
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:23 AM   #57
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The only substances that I'm in favor of continued prohibition are those that so severely impair judgment and alter behavior that the mere act of taking them seriously endangers others. PCP and maybe meth are in that category IMO.

All other substances should be legalized and regulated.

Yes IMO the war on drugs should be almost completely scrapped in favor of a harm-reduction model. Governments need to stop treating us like children.
Yep. It's a social issue. Making it a criminal issue is like trying to save a house with a termite problem by burning it down.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:51 AM   #58
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I'd like a pro-legalizer to explain to us how ending prohibition was a good thing.

I see nobody weighing the numbers of dead moonshiner gangs with what we've seen with legalization that's far worse: Over 10,000 dead drunken driving a year, alcohol-related violence, and alcohol-related diseases and deaths.

How on earth do a few thousand criminal gangsters shooting each other outweigh this?
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:52 AM   #59
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how about acid, mushrooms, dmt, peyote?
Legalize, legalize, legalize, legalize. I don't believe that any of those substances belong in the same category as PCP.

Now mind you, I'm not pro-substance abuse. I just recognize what you apparently don't: prohibition is a historically proven failure that has no effect on drug use. Education, regulation, and rehabilitation is what we need, not more prison cells.
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:54 AM   #60
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^^ Those prison cells are primarily for the dealers. What's wrong with jailing drug dealers?
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:54 AM   #61
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I'd like a pro-legalizer to explain to us how ending prohibition was a good thing.

I see nobody weighing the numbers of dead moonshiner gangs with what we've seen with legalization that's far worse: Over 10,000 dead drunken driving a year, alcohol-related violence, and alcohol-related diseases and deaths.

How on earth do a few thousand criminal gangsters shooting each other outweigh this?
So you want to bring back alcohol prohibition?
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Old 04-16-2013, 11:55 AM   #62
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So you want to bring back alcohol prohibition?
So you can't answer.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:02 PM   #63
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^^ Those prison cells are primarily for the dealers. What's wrong with jailing drug dealers?
Indeed. So lets also imprison the CEOs of Anheuser-Busch and Philip Morris. Sound good?
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:03 PM   #64
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So you can't answer.
Oh I can answer. I'd just like you to clarify your position first.
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Old 04-16-2013, 12:57 PM   #65
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Oh I can answer. I'd just like you to clarify your position first.
My points were stated, my questions were asked. Unfortunately the pro-drug crowd always respond with the same non sequitur "So you want to bring back prohibition, eh!!!"

Uh, no I'm saying let's not let another genie out of the bottle we can't put back in.

Now back to the topic at hand.
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Old 04-16-2013, 01:53 PM   #66
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My points were stated, my questions were asked. Unfortunately the pro-drug crowd always respond with the same non sequitur "So you want to bring back prohibition, eh!!!"

Uh, no I'm saying let's not let another genie out of the bottle we can't put back in.

Now back to the topic at hand.

So once again, to clarify, you are against reinstating alcohol prohibition, correct? Or are you? How about a clear, unambiguous statement on this.
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Old 04-16-2013, 02:07 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk View Post
I'd like a pro-legalizer to explain to us how ending prohibition was a good thing.

I see nobody weighing the numbers of dead moonshiner gangs with what we've seen with legalization that's far worse: Over 10,000 dead drunken driving a year, alcohol-related violence, and alcohol-related diseases and deaths.

How on earth do a few thousand criminal gangsters shooting each other outweigh this?
Business growth, jobs, economy, curbing one level of illegal profiteering. We currently have a better American beer business than prior to prohibition. Also, Jesus would have ended prohibition.
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Old 04-16-2013, 02:40 PM   #68
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I'd like a pro-legalizer to explain to us how ending prohibition was a good thing.
So you want Al Capone back? You want the Mafia getting rich again?

You want corruption of the police and the judicial system back?

You want loss of credibility for the law, because so many break it?

I figured you for an authoritarian police state type of person, and you've proven me right.
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Old 04-16-2013, 03:29 PM   #69
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prohibition on most things never seems to work.

but we keep trying.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:54 PM   #70
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If I could and had the choice...I would much rather smoke than drink. I've never seen or heard of a violent stoner. I see more positives to making it fully legal than illegal.
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