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Old 04-17-2013, 08:08 AM   #51
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I'm not sure how many QBs go in the first round this year as most of the elite and blue chip talent are at other positions. There's a good chance Geno Smith is taken by the Bills even though they have Kolb. There's also rumors that the Eagles will take Smith but again, this is complete speculation. One thing is pretty much for sure, kc is desperate to trade down.

Let's assume kc trades down, this will affect a lot of things. Whoever trades up with kc is doing so in order to get a LT, not Geno Smith. So with kc trading down I'm thinking they may still draft a QB somewhere in the second round.

There are also other rumors that chokeland likes Geno Smith. All I can say is that If either kc or chokeland takes Geno Smith, I'll be a very happy camper. I'm actaully wishing kc just goes ahead and takes Geno with the #1 pick. That would be fantastic.
I wouldn't be. QB is one of only a few positions where picking one early has actually improved the team, historically. If Geno tuns out to be even close to average, he'd improve either of those teams quite a bit.

I'd rather they got rid of their perfectly capable LT and replace him with the #1 overall. No improvement.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:27 AM   #52
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I wouldn't be. QB is one of only a few positions where picking one early has actually improved the team, historically. If Geno tuns out to be even close to average, he'd improve either of those teams quite a bit.

I'd rather they got rid of their perfectly capable LT and replace him with the #1 overall. No improvement.
Sure QB is a position that can totally change a pretender into a contender. But it's also the position that can set a franchise back a few years. With the NFL having a salary cap for the first 10 picks there's way less chance of a franchise screwing themselves by taking a QB in the top 10, but you have to think about this: if you reach on a QB just because he's a QB you are leaving another player on the board that can help the team immediately while drafting a QB that may do nothing for the team. Furthermore, you can get that same talent at the QB position later in the draft. So, do you reach for a QB just because the player is a QB?

If chokeland takes Geno Smith with their first pick, it will be a huge mistake. They have needs all over the team and they just traded for another QB. I think that at this point and time Terrell Pryor offers as much as Geno Smith and Matt Flynn is just sitting there too.

If kc takes Geno #1 then they are taking a QB that will not beat out Smith. Smith just signed a big fat contract and maybe, maybe in 3 years Geno Smith is ready to compete but again, is that why you take a player number 1 overall, to sit on the bench?
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:17 AM   #53
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Sure QB is a position that can totally change a pretender into a contender. But it's also the position that can set a franchise back a few years. With the NFL having a salary cap for the first 10 picks there's way less chance of a franchise screwing themselves by taking a QB in the top 10, but you have to think about this: if you reach on a QB just because he's a QB you are leaving another player on the board that can help the team immediately while drafting a QB that may do nothing for the team. Furthermore, you can get that same talent at the QB position later in the draft. So, do you reach for a QB just because the player is a QB?

If chokeland takes Geno Smith with their first pick, it will be a huge mistake. They have needs all over the team and they just traded for another QB. I think that at this point and time Terrell Pryor offers as much as Geno Smith and Matt Flynn is just sitting there too.

If kc takes Geno #1 then they are taking a QB that will not beat out Smith. Smith just signed a big fat contract and maybe, maybe in 3 years Geno Smith is ready to compete but again, is that why you take a player number 1 overall, to sit on the bench?
Pryor offers as much as Geno? I'm sorry, but that is simply not true.

As far as the Chiefs, the Alex Smith trade was a colossal mistake in my eyes. The guy is not good. To miss out on the player in the draft that can help your team the most because you already made a mistake like that is simply doubling the stupidity.

Also, which QBs available later in the draft have the same talent as Geno?
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:54 AM   #54
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Pryor offers as much as Geno? I'm sorry, but that is simply not true.

As far as the Chiefs, the Alex Smith trade was a colossal mistake in my eyes. The guy is not good. To miss out on the player in the draft that can help your team the most because you already made a mistake like that is simply doubling the stupidity.

Also, which QBs available later in the draft have the same talent as Geno?
Some feel EJ Manual has more upside than Geno. Other draft experts think Nassib is more pro ready than Geno. Some feel that Barkley is just a better prospect than Geno as of right now, but he may have a lower ceiling. Point being that Geno Smith has too many questions to justify taking him real high in the draft IMHO. And when you have a top 10 pick, do you really want to take a chance like that, especially if you have holes all over the place?
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:57 AM   #55
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EJ Manuel is already a better QB than Geno Smith.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:16 AM   #56
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Some feel EJ Manual has more upside than Geno. Other draft experts think Nassib is more pro ready than Geno. Some feel that Barkley is just a better prospect than Geno as of right now, but he may have a lower ceiling. Point being that Geno Smith has too many questions to justify taking him real high in the draft IMHO. And when you have a top 10 pick, do you really want to take a chance like that, especially if you have holes all over the place?
The problem is that all the QB prospects have significant question marks associated with them as pro players. Geno Smith is the best athlete, throws quite a nice ball but can be slow to release and played in a system that makes his transition to a pro system very difficult.
Barkley has played in a pro friendly system and has good foot work, but does not throw a nice ball and his arm is not as powerful as it needs to be - he looks like Ponder or the ginger ninja from Cincy as a prospect.
Manuel is the best physical prospect as a passer, he is a huge man with a rocket arm and good athletic ability but he has not been particularly productive against some weaker defenses and he could be facing a huge learning curve trying to get up to speed with the pro game, his decision making isn't very good.
Nassib is a gunslinger first and foremost, he has a live arm with great power and decent accuracy. He is a lot like Cutler in a way, good prospect with an NFL arm but a risk taking player on the field who doesn't always use his progressions to get the best option.

Of the 4 I think Barkley has the highest floor, but the lowest upside due to his weak arm - he could make a career like Chad Pennington. Geno Smith is the most boom-bust type player, I think he has a ton of upside if he can be made to work in less gimmicky offense and if he learns to get rid of the ball faster, but he could also wash out completely like Jamarcus Russell did. Nassib is going to need a team to be patient with him, he will make mistakes but he could down the road become a solid starter if he gets some stability on the coaching side. Manuel is the wild card, some teams love the live arm and could draft him high but he is not going to be a good rookie starter if he follows the current trend of similar players.

I don't think Barkley is a 1st round pick, we have seen similar players (Brady Quinn, Ponder etc.) slip on draft day and I think Barkley will as well, I would not be surprised to see a team at the top of the order take him in the 2nd round.

I can't see a team in the top 5 draft a QB and I don't see the Jets going that way either. The Bills are the most obvious destination for a QB and I think they will have the top guy on their board. I could see the Eagles, Cardinals or Browns move into the lower half of the 1st round to get a QB.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:21 AM   #57
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I'm not sure how many QBs go in the first round this year as most of the elite and blue chip talent are at other positions. There's a good chance Geno Smith is taken by the Bills even though they have Kolb. There's also rumors that the Eagles will take Smith but again, this is complete speculation. One thing is pretty much for sure, kc is desperate to trade down.

Let's assume kc trades down, this will affect a lot of things. Whoever trades up with kc is doing so in order to get a LT, not Geno Smith. So with kc trading down I'm thinking they may still draft a QB somewhere in the second round.

There are also other rumors that chokeland likes Geno Smith. All I can say is that If either kc or chokeland takes Geno Smith, I'll be a very happy camper. I'm actaully wishing kc just goes ahead and takes Geno with the #1 pick. That would be fantastic.
i think the Eagles liking Geno is a smokescreen. they have too many other needs at OL and DL that taking Geno at #4 is counterproductive.
plus the better QB class is next season or you can get a guy who is solid by trading back into the lower first or take a guy in the 2nd or 3rd.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:28 AM   #58
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Manuel is the best physical prospect as a passer, he is a huge man with a rocket arm and good athletic ability but he has not been particularly productive against some weaker defenses and he could be facing a huge learning curve trying to get up to speed with the pro game, his decision making isn't very good.
Sounds like you watched little FSU this year. His decision making improved big time this year. Accuracy was much better. YPC/A was highest in the ACC. Florida was his only bad game of the year. NC State was mediocre. Saying he wasn't productive (especially this year) against some weaker defenses is pretty much a lie. Taken out of the first three games because we were romping other teams and we rushed for over 2,800 yards as a team. He was also taken out early in other blow out wins. His learning curve for the speed of the pro game is less than any other QB in this class because he has played in a pro-style offense with multiple calls and ability to audible on any given play. So, no.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:32 AM   #59
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The draft can't get here soon enough...
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:54 PM   #60
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The draft can't get here soon enough...
Why everyone is just going to be pissed afterwards anyway.
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:47 PM   #61
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Sounds like you watched little FSU this year. His decision making improved big time this year. Accuracy was much better. YPC/A was highest in the ACC. Florida was his only bad game of the year. NC State was mediocre. Saying he wasn't productive (especially this year) against some weaker defenses is pretty much a lie. Taken out of the first three games because we were romping other teams and we rushed for over 2,800 yards as a team. He was also taken out early in other blow out wins. His learning curve for the speed of the pro game is less than any other QB in this class because he has played in a pro-style offense with multiple calls and ability to audible on any given play. So, no.
He had 3 games over 300 yards, 6 games under 200 yards, in only 2 of those 6 games did he get taken out early. Taking out Murray State and Savannah State which are 2 teams he should have curb-stomped, he is down to 19 TDs and 9 INTs which is just not great. He barely cracks the top 20 for yards and he is nowhere near the top 20 for TDs and it is not like he didn't have help, defenses had to respect the run a great deal.

His decision time looks decent on many plays because of how often he goes to his number 1 read, but when he goes through progressions he has a nasty tendency of double pumping the ball and he absolutely stares down his number 1 guy, I haven't seen him look off the defense a single time.

FSU played 2 lower tier teams, they played 7 teams who were outside the top 50 defensive teams, they played 3 teams between 20 and 50 and only 2 of the top 20 teams in terms of defense. That is a weak schedule in terms of defense and definitely not a program that a top QB prospect should have any problems overcoming.
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:16 PM   #62
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Maybe Elway goes big and trades into the top 10. If that happened I would hope for Chance Warmack. Oh god we would have a dominant oline. I'd give our first and 2nd for him in a heartbeat.
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:18 PM   #63
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He had 3 games over 300 yards, 6 games under 200 yards, in only 2 of those 6 games did he get taken out early. Taking out Murray State and Savannah State which are 2 teams he should have curb-stomped, he is down to 19 TDs and 9 INTs which is just not great. He barely cracks the top 20 for yards and he is nowhere near the top 20 for TDs and it is not like he didn't have help, defenses had to respect the run a great deal.

His decision time looks decent on many plays because of how often he goes to his number 1 read, but when he goes through progressions he has a nasty tendency of double pumping the ball and he absolutely stares down his number 1 guy, I haven't seen him look off the defense a single time.

FSU played 2 lower tier teams, they played 7 teams who were outside the top 50 defensive teams, they played 3 teams between 20 and 50 and only 2 of the top 20 teams in terms of defense. That is a weak schedule in terms of defense and definitely not a program that a top QB prospect should have any problems overcoming.
Like I said, you didn't watch much FSU football. He was taken out early in more than two games. And as I said, the team ran for 2,800 + yards. Of course he isn't going to have high passing yards overall when that happens and you have 3 RB's who average what they did a carry. The first read comment is a bunch of **** too.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:31 PM   #64
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Maybe Elway goes big and trades into the top 10. If that happened I would hope for Chance Warmack. Oh god we would have a dominant oline. I'd give our first and 2nd for him in a heartbeat.
Chance will slip out of the top ten. It would be stupid for Denver to give up a first and second for him. That is silly. He might be the best player in the draft but he is still just a guard.
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Old 04-17-2013, 08:39 PM   #65
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i try to block out all memories of the Tebow draft. i damn near broke my tv when we made that pick.
Me too, but four solid starters and two Pro Bowlers (Beadles/Thomas) and another potential Pro Bowler (Decker) is a pretty incredible draft.
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:31 PM   #66
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The Chiefs are going to draft Luke Joeckel or Eric Fisher.

They are already in discussions to send Albert to Miami for their 2nd.

And honestly any pick KC makes is confusing.

It's been said that Albert wants too much money and he is injured basically every year.

Joeckel and Fisher are not sexy picks, but they are the best players in the draft and they are gonna be better than Albert IMO.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:24 PM   #67
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Me too, but four solid starters and two Pro Bowlers (Beadles/Thomas) and another potential Pro Bowler (Decker) is a pretty incredible draft.
yes i know, i was kinda mad when we passed on Bryant for DT until i read more about him and then realized that he was a bigger less idiotic talent than Bryant.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:22 AM   #68
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Chance will slip out of the top ten. It would be stupid for Denver to give up a first and second for him. That is silly. He might be the best player in the draft but he is still just a guard.
I think one reason we lost last yr was Kuper not playing well in the playoffs. He sort of got rag dolled. Granted he was banged up big time. We just aren't physical at all inside on the oline. Vasquez a good player but not a mean nasty physical guard. If we got Cooper, Warford, or Warmack it would give us that physcial presence we need to anchor our whole line togther. The missing link between Franklin and Clady that will end our softness inside and make us mean and nasty.

Maybe we could trade the first, Beadles, to a passing team to move up just enough to draft Cooper. Or we could trade down to top of 2nd and take a guy like Fluker or Warford if they drop.

Or even wait until later and take a guard like Brian Winters who could at least give us more depth. i don't see him as nasty like Cooper and Warmack.
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:11 AM   #69
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Why everyone is just going to be pissed afterwards anyway.
Which means more rage posting on OM.

No traffic is bad traffic homie.
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Old 04-18-2013, 11:17 AM   #70
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I think one reason we lost last yr was Kuper not playing well in the playoffs. He sort of got rag dolled. Granted he was banged up big time. We just aren't physical at all inside on the oline. Vasquez a good player but not a mean nasty physical guard. If we got Cooper, Warford, or Warmack it would give us that physcial presence we need to anchor our whole line togther. The missing link between Franklin and Clady that will end our softness inside and make us mean and nasty.

Maybe we could trade the first, Beadles, to a passing team to move up just enough to draft Cooper. Or we could trade down to top of 2nd and take a guy like Fluker or Warford if they drop.

Or even wait until later and take a guard like Brian Winters who could at least give us more depth. i don't see him as nasty like Cooper and Warmack.
Chance is going to be great, but he would cost Denver too much. There are plenty of good guards. I'm not sure Denver is looking for a starter in this draft. I think they trade down into the 2nd round pick up a 4th and use a 4th or 5th on a guard. With Vasquez coming in and Kuper moving over to compete with Beadles I think Denver is fine. They have more pressing needs at this point.
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