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Old 04-11-2013, 06:05 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Meck77 View Post
Good thing you didn't. Down to $72.00. https://www.bitstamp.net/



It's on a wild ride, halts in trading, meh not my cup of tea.
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell...r-own-success/

Maybe if it comes crashing down I'll buy some and forget about them for 20 years.
This site has it listed with a spread that makes no sense.

Last: $ 99.00000
Bid: $ 79.00000 Ask: $ 99.00000
Dark Bid: false Dark Ask: false
Monthly volume: 14,127.79153 BTC

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Tradehill orders are executing normally. Other major Bitcoin exchanges are experiencing technical issues at the moment.
And also from the site, a bizarre pitch mean to reassure?

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Tradehill shut down and returned client funds in January 2012 due to payments fraud and regulatory uncertainty in the US. Tradehill was the first institution in the Bitcoin market to hold millions of dollars in user funds and process full payouts. Every other Bitcoin company that achieved scale either lost money in a hack or went insolvent.
https://www.tradehill.com/
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:09 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Meck77 View Post
Good thing you didn't. Down to $72.00.
.. and dropping like a rock (currently $61), as all the people who have large reserves start cashing out.

Like I said before, a few people are going to get rich -- everyone else is going to get screwed, just like all bubbles.
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:46 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Fedaykin View Post
.. and dropping like a rock (currently $61), as all the people who have large reserves start cashing out.

Like I said before, a few people are going to get rich -- everyone else is going to get screwed, just like all bubbles.
That's usually how short term trading works. The most you can lose is 100% of your investment. Those who bought bitcoin at the beginning of the year are up 1000%. That's still short term. Long term, I see bitcoin going to either 0 or 10,000+. That's still a great risk/reward payoff. The last time bitcoin crashed it went from $31 down to $3. This time it has to fall from $260 to $26 to see the same drop. Next time it could fall from $2000 to $200, but I doubt it will have the same volatility in a few years.
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:54 PM   #54
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That's usually how short term trading works. The most you can lose is 100% of your investment. Those who bought bitcoin at the beginning of the year are up 1000%. That's still short term. Long term, I see bitcoin going to either 0 or 10,000+. That's still a great risk/reward payoff. The last time bitcoin crashed it went from $31 down to $3. This time it has to fall from $260 to $26 to see the same drop. Next time it could fall from $2000 to $200, but I doubt it will have the same volatility in a few years.
But it's not remotely how a currency works.

It will remain volatile as long as it is traded as a commodity. It has to be indexed to something....gold?......or it will be just another worthless dot com play; volatile with unsustainable valuations and no substance to fall back on.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:16 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Arkie View Post
That's usually how short term trading works. The most you can lose is 100% of your investment. Those who bought bitcoin at the beginning of the year are up 1000%. That's still short term. Long term, I see bitcoin going to either 0 or 10,000+. That's still a great risk/reward payoff. The last time bitcoin crashed it went from $31 down to $3. This time it has to fall from $260 to $26 to see the same drop. Next time it could fall from $2000 to $200, but I doubt it will have the same volatility in a few years.
I agree. But what you're describing is "reasonable" for a commodity, not a currency.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:19 PM   #56
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But it's not remotely how a currency works.

It will remain volatile as long as it is traded as a commodity. It has to be indexed to something....gold?......or it will be just another worthless dot com play; volatile with unsustainable valuations and no substance to fall back on.
I'll concede that it's more of a commodity at this very early stage. It's not a worthless dot com play though. Bitcoins take expensive equipment and real energy to mine.

bitcoin mining
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:23 PM   #57
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I agree. But what you're describing is "reasonable" for a commodity, not a currency.
actually it's the greatest commodity ever when you consider the bulk of the buyers are hedging against the failure of fiat money
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:31 PM   #58
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I'll concede that it's more of a commodity at this very early stage. It's not a worthless dot com play though. Bitcoins take expensive equipment and real energy to mine.

bitcoin mining
*LMAO* that's not "expensive equipment" that's commodity hardware that millions of people have. See: All relatively modern computers (PCS, XBox, etc.) that run games. The bitcoin "mining" process is highly paralleizable, just like 3d graphics processing.

It's hard to do profitably mind you, because the electricity to run the hardware to mine the bitcoins is more expensive than the profit. This is why bitcoin mining using hacked computers in botnets is so popular, so that the "miners" can use other people's electricity to mine.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:33 PM   #59
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actually it's the greatest commodity ever when you consider the bulk of the buyers are hedging against the failure of fiat money
When/if the dollar tanks, so will bitcoin. It's a fantasy currency that only has use in a society with enough wealth to do digital commerce.

Good luck trading a collection of binary digits to buy seeds when the **** hits the fan.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:36 PM   #60
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*LMAO* that's not "expensive equipment" that's commodity hardware that millions of people have. See: All relatively modern computers (PCS, XBox, etc.) that run games. The bitcoin "mining" process is highly paralleizable, just like 3d graphics processing.

It's hard to do profitably mind you, because the electricity to run the hardware to mine the bitcoins is more expensive than the profit. This is why bitcoin mining using hacked computers in botnets is so popular, so that the "miners" can use other people's electricity to mine.
And more importantly, in order for the result of "mining" to have value, it has to produce something with actual value. Doesn't matter how much effort it took to create it is that effort does not materilize as something valuable.

When you mine gold, you have gold.

When you min bitcoins, you have a collection of binary data with exactly zero intrinsic value and exactly zero backing it.

Even the lowly fiat dollar has more backing than that (i.e. the U.S. economy).
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:37 PM   #61
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When/if the dollar tanks, so will bitcoin. It's a fantasy currency that only has use in a society with enough wealth to do digital commerce.

Good luck trading a collection of binary digits to buy seeds when the **** hits the fan.

True but most buyers don't see it that way.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:10 PM   #62
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I'll concede that it's more of a commodity at this very early stage. It's not a worthless dot com play though. Bitcoins take expensive equipment and real energy to mine.

bitcoin mining
The only value Bitcoins have is whatever the next guy will pay.

Calling it a commodity is generous; commodities have a market value, like housing, they have a 'floor,' you don't lose everything......assuming it's not a futures margin.
Bitcoins are imaginary 'monopoly' money and an interesting speculative gamble where you can lose 'everything.'

To be a 'currency' it must be indexed if it is to be stable. For now, it's a high risk, short term play. There is money to be made if you can afford to lose it all.

Blackjack is safer.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:23 PM   #63
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The only value Bitcoins have is whatever the next guy will pay.

Calling it a commodity is generous; commodities have a market value, like housing, they have a 'floor,' you don't lose everything......assuming it's not a futures margin.
Bitcoins are imaginary 'monopoly' money and an interesting speculative gamble where you can lose 'everything.'

To be a 'currency' it must be indexed if it is to be stable. For now, it's a high risk, short term play. There is money to be made if you can afford to lose it all.

Blackjack is safer.
^^ this sums it up very tidily
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:39 PM   #64
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http://www.att.com/shop/apps/isis-mo...id=u0WyP0t5lFY

Technologies like this will enable competing currencies even more.
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Old 04-12-2013, 04:12 PM   #65
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The Winklevoss Twins who helped Zuckerberg create facebook have one of the largest stakes in Bitcoin.

Never Mind Facebook; Winklevoss Twins Rule in Digital Money

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The twins, the first prominent figures in the largely anonymous bitcoin world to publicly disclose a big stake, say they own nearly $11 million worth.

“People say it’s a Ponzi scheme, it’s a bubble,” said Cameron Winklevoss. “People really don’t want to take it seriously. At some point that narrative will shift to ‘virtual currencies are here to stay.’ We’re in the early days.”

“We have elected to put our money and faith in a mathematical framework that is free of politics and human error,” Tyler Winklevoss said.

The brothers began dabbling in bitcoin last summer when the dollar value of a single coin was still in the single digits. To keep their holdings secure from hackers, they have taken the complex codes that represent their holdings off networked computers and saved them on small flash drives, putting the drives, in turn, in safe deposit boxes at banks in three different cities.

It’s hard to verify how the Winklevoss holdings compare with other bitcoin players, given the anonymity of accounts, and the twins say they believe that some early users of the system probably have holdings that are at least as large.

A Maltese company, Exante, started a hedge fund that the company says has bought up about 82,000 bitcoins — or about $10 million as of Thursday — with money from wealthy investors. A founder of the fund, Anatoli Knyazev, said his main concern was hackers and government regulators, who have so far mostly left the currency alone.

These investments were all in an uncertain state on Thursday after the big price swings and the shutdown of trading on Mt. Gox, a Japanese-based company that claims to handle 80 percent of all bitcoin trades. Mt. Gox said in a statement that the problems were a result of the currency’s popularity, making it impossible to process all the incoming orders. It added that it was not the victim of hackers but “instead victim of our own success!”

The 6-foot-5 Winklevoss brothers were unfazed. The brothers said they took advantage of the low prices to buy more.

“It has been four years and it has yet to be discredited as a viable alternative to fiat currency,” Tyler Winklevoss said. “We could be totally wrong, but we are curious to see this play out a lot more.”
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Old 04-12-2013, 05:02 PM   #66
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Arkie, from your linked story.

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“To say highly speculative would be the understatement of the century,” said Steve Hanke, a professor specializing in alternative currencies at Johns Hopkins University.
This is not a currency, it's a nerdfest.

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New coins are “mined” by programmers who solve mathematic riddles and can sell their coins on upstart exchanges.

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