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Old 04-10-2013, 08:26 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Fedaykin View Post
Do you or do you not agree that parents (no matter their political persuasion) should be prevented from abusing their children? The answer to that question also answers the 'do parents own their children' question.

I know thinking is tough for some of you righties, but this is a pretty simple concept.
Do you own your dog? Are you allowed to abuse it? yes you own the dog, no you can't abuse it legally. Of course simply the fact you have a child does not green light you to abuse the child. Why would even be arguing that? Of course society/govt has an obligation that pererves life and basic human rights. The parent still though have a bigger claim to ownership then society does over their children. Certianly parents have a right to teach alternative lifestyles.
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:48 AM   #102
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Good to see the ignorant, right wing troll brigade over reacting and misrepresenting! It's just what y'all do oh-so-well!

Some good reader reaction to this over at The Dish. Here's one of the better ones. Good to see some reasoned responses showing a bit of thoughtfulness and perspective.

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I saw the criticisms of this video making the rounds on my conservative in-lawsí facebook pages, and their angry rants about how no else can make decisions about their children, a more vitriolic version of Friedersdorfís comments. Their interpretation of Harris-Perryís video is entirely misguided. She is not saying that anyone has a LEGAL interest in your kids.

Look, none of us want your kids, okay? None of us want to take them away from you, or force you to make certain decisions. She is saying that we all need to think of children as a collective asset of our society. I donít want your kids, but I do want your kids to grow up educated, productive, and thoughtful members of society. Thatís good for me, for my kids, and everyone else. Thatís why we need to vote to fund schools, to keep funding for school lunches and other programs that benefit less well-off kids, not mention public preschools and all-day kindergartens, programs that are proven effective.

My in-laws would probably vote to cut funding for public education because their kids donít go to public schools, and anyway they think the curriculum is extremely suspect because it doesnít involve enough Christian(ist!) values. They think that raising their kids is a private endeavor, and increasingly try to do it away from society. This intensely private mindset is what Harris-Perry is railing against. Society has an interest in the welfare of our kids, and we should continue to try to support them as best we can. Itís called a civilization. Everybody should try it.
http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/...belong-to-you/
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:56 AM   #103
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This week's hysteria brought to you by the Right Wing Overreaction Industry. Tune in next week for a brand new hysteria.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:28 AM   #104
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Progressives have arrived to demonstrate the proper boot licking technique. Lean forward, citizen.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:54 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
Good to see the ignorant, right wing troll brigade over reacting and misrepresenting! It's just what y'all do oh-so-well!

Some good reader reaction to this over at The Dish. Here's one of the better ones. Good to see some reasoned responses showing a bit of thoughtfulness and perspective.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/...belong-to-you/
This is great. I was looking forward to hearing childless sully's post-telepathy-obgyn take on the community's responsibility to parent.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:25 AM   #106
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This is great. I was looking forward to hearing childless sully's post-telepathy-obgyn take on the community's responsibility to parent.
Re-read my post, specifically regarding whose take I posted.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:30 AM   #107
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Re-read my post, specifically regarding whose take I posted.
Oh I get it. It wasn't Sully but a Sullivanite. Or is it Sullinista. Maybe Sullomite?
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:27 AM   #108
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No, parents do not own their children and do not get to do whatever they feel like with them.

Parents have a DUTY and RESPONSIBILITY to their children though. And society also has a duty and responsibility to all children (all people really) as well.
Of course kids legally belong to the parent. That doesn't mean the parent can do anything to them. However, I can see how kids belong to the collective if our taxes are being used to raise them, and maybe that's the point you and the leftists are trying to make here. Pay more into the state controlled coffers so they can provide more funding to raise kids.
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:29 AM   #109
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The battleaxe that made what I said were Marxist-like claims on communal ownership of children has even further justified my statements by saying people have the "right" to jobs, homes, good food. 100% Socialist attitude.
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:30 AM   #110
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Of course kids legally belong to the parent. That doesn't mean the parent can do anything to them. However, I can see how kids belong to the collective if our taxes are being used to raise them, and maybe that's the point you and the leftists are trying to make here. Pay more into the state controlled coffers so they can provide more funding to raise kids.
Back when parents were considered solely responsible for the child and were expected to raise children in marriage, we didn't have such massive problems with delinquency and poverty. Coincidence?
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:34 AM   #111
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The two times you voted for Bush.

At least his wars gave you plenty of wounded vets to perform your medical expertise upon. You'll be busy for a loooong time.

Proud?
Apparently the higher military suicide rates under Obama mean nothing, while you use deaths under Bush as a weapon.

Definite liberal - selectively using corpses as a political weapon.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:20 PM   #112
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Apparently the higher military suicide rates under Obama mean nothing, while you use deaths under Bush as a weapon.
Suicides in the military are yet another aftershock of the Bush regime.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:22 PM   #113
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Back when parents were considered solely responsible for the child and were expected to raise children in marriage, we didn't have such massive problems with delinquency and poverty. Coincidence?
Going over the entirety of human history, it's only recently that the two biological parents were considered those solely responsible for childrearing.

It used to be that grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, older children and others would assist in that work.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:24 PM   #114
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You were the exact opposite of what you are now. Although you were no better back then as 80% of your posts were a little pissing contest with LABF.
Opposite? Nope.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:34 PM   #115
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Going over the entirety of human history, it's only recently that the two biological parents were considered those solely responsible for childrearing.

It used to be that grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, older children and others would assist in that work.
I think you're referring to the long-dead caveman days which communalist types tend to refer to wistfully when they want everyone to live in their little communes. Mainstream religion is thousands of years old and it makes it known who is responsible for children. It also strictly establishes the proper family structure environment as well as parental roles.

It's also no accident that communal living is stagnant in terms of economic and scientific innovation. Not something I'm remotely interested in bringing back.

But then again, I'm not a pinko.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:36 PM   #116
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Suicides in the military are yet another aftershock of the Bush regime.
Anything negative under the Obama "the buck stops me with me" regime is necessarily Bush's fault.

5 years out and that old scapegoat is still used. Amazing yet unsurprising.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:39 PM   #117
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Anything negative under the Obama "the buck stops me with me" regime is necessarily Bush's fault.

5 years out and that old scapegoat is still used. Amazing yet unsurprising.
Your boy Bush shat on the planet and the odor isn't that easy to clean up.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:40 PM   #118
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"Shat on the planet." Either extreme exaggeration or paranoid schizophrenia.

You make the call.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:42 PM   #119
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I think you're referring to the long-dead caveman days which communalist types tend to refer to wistfully when they want everyone to live in their little communes.
The upbringing of children as I described has been the way it's been done for the majority of human history.

As a conservative, old is good enough for you.

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Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk
Mainstream religion is thousands of years old and it makes it known who is responsible for children. It also strictly establishes the proper family structure environment as well as parental roles.
Judeo-Christian values are not the be-all and end-all, even if you have faith otherwise.

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It's also no accident that communal living is stagnant in terms of economic and scientific innovation. Not something I'm remotely interested in bringing back.
I'm not either, but I don't pretend that the nuclear family is the only, or best, way to raise kids.

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But then again, I'm not a pinko.
You're just a dicko.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:52 PM   #120
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We have more than enough evidence to show the shredding of the nuclear family has caused poverty and delinquency issues. Studies in the black community have made this perfectly clear, yet promoters of family dissolution, alternative lifestyles, and religious hatred refuse to admit it.

If you want communal rearing of children, then I would suggest borrowing Doc Brown's time travel machine and going to the USSR.

You know you've been infected with Marxism when you react with a hostile attitude toward the basic family unit of humanity.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:57 PM   #121
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You know you've been infected with Marxism when you react with a hostile attitude toward the basic family unit of humanity.
What's "hostile" about the facts I noted?

What's the "basic family unit"?
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:10 PM   #122
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Oh I get it. It wasn't Sully but a Sullivanite. Or is it Sullinista. Maybe Sullomite?
So, then, do you disagree with what this Sully reader is saying? Or has your horizon perhaps been broadened?
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:16 PM   #123
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What's "hostile" about the facts I noted?

What's the "basic family unit"?
Funny that liberals are always accusing conservatives of being cave men, yet they admire communal living among cavemen.

If you don't know what a basic family unit is, God help you. I can only hope you're playing dumb, but since we've already seen how far left you are, you're probably serious and think the common meaning of it - which has existed for thousands of years - has no real meaning, which is quite typical of the left. Everything they want to deconstruct they try to deligitimize by pretending it never existed to begin with, by calling them "artificial constructs" and all other similar types of bull****. Once they have been labeled as "artificial constructs," then, people are expected to let it all go and go along with the social structure as defined by the left. It's all very cutesy.

Thus far, you're very textbook, comrade.
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:27 PM   #124
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Funny that liberals are always accusing conservatives of being cave men, yet they admire communal living among cavemen.
You need some vision correction, because I never said any of that.

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Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk
If you don't know what a basic family unit is, God help you.
I know what Christians think the "basic family unit" is, but that's far from universal nor is it obviously superior.

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Thus far, you're very textbook, comrade.
Anyone who questions right-wing evangelical Christian values is a Commie. We get it.
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:32 PM   #125
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This whole topic is a joke. If the point is society has a duty to make laws and create services to nurture children and help them become good citizens no one would argue that. Its when liberals put stupid people on tv and the radio and say things like people need to get over the notion they own their kids. That doesn't sound like people just saying we want to invest in education and things that help parents raise kids. That screams to people we want to force you to send your kids to the schools we want that teach what we say they should.
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