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Old 04-10-2013, 03:58 PM   #76
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I'm not sure enjoyment is always the best measure.

But if what you're getting at is that school is better than home for many, I've seen that in real life, and sadly it happens.

But the lowest common denominator is not ideal. What's better for some is rarely the best for all.
I don't think it is sad that it happens. I think it is good kids have somewhere that they can feel loved and be developed and share ideas. A lot of kids don't have that luxury and have absolutely terrible home situations. I'm sure there are a lot of people who think they do fine jobs as parents but in reality are pretty dog**** at it.
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Old 04-10-2013, 04:07 PM   #77
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According to the right, it's not.

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ďThe whole people must take upon themselves the education of the whole people and be willing to bear the expenses of it. There should not be a district of one mile square, without a school in it, not founded by a charitable individual, but maintained at the public expense of the people themselves.Ēó John Adams 1785
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The foundations of national morality must be laid in private families. In vain are schools academies and universities instituted if loose principles and licentious habits are impressed upon children in their earliest years The mothers are the earliest and most important instructors of youth The vices and examples of the parents cannot be concealed from the children How is it possible that children can have any just sense of the sacred obligations of morality or religion if from their earliest infancy they learn that their mothers live in habitual infidelity to then fathers and their fathers in as constant infidelity to their mothers
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Old 04-10-2013, 04:08 PM   #78
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I don't think it is sad that it happens. I think it is good kids have somewhere that they can feel loved and be developed and share ideas. A lot of kids don't have that luxury and have absolutely terrible home situations. I'm sure there are a lot of people who think they do fine jobs as parents but in reality are pretty dog**** at it.
It's not sad compared to the realistic alternative. But it's sad that some don't receive the kind of family many others are blessed with. It's something they'll spend their whole lives struggling to overcome.
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Old 04-10-2013, 04:14 PM   #79
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Since we're quoting Adams
I don't know anybody that is advocating that schools should be in the morality teaching business. However, children learn more from life experiences rather than from words alone. The biggest part of understanding right from wrong is putting those lessons into practice among a group of one's own peers. Hence the necessity of the classroom environment.
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Old 04-10-2013, 04:25 PM   #80
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I don't know anybody that is advocating that schools should be in the morality teaching business. However, children learn more from life experiences rather than from words alone. The biggest part of understanding right from wrong is putting those lessons into practice among a group of one's own peers. Hence the necessity of the classroom environment.
Don't get me wrong. I'm no enemy of the classroom. Or even the public school, in principle. That said, there are so many things broken in public education that I'm not sure a real solution can be achieved at this point without school choice.

You don't usually choose your child's doctor by whichever one's office is closest. I'm not sure why your child's education should be any different.
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Old 04-10-2013, 04:35 PM   #81
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Don't get me wrong. I'm no enemy of the classroom. Or even the public school, in principle. That said, there are so many things broken in public education that I'm not sure a real solution can be achieved at this point without school choice.

You don't usually choose your child's doctor by whichever one's office is closest. I'm not sure why your child's education should be any different.
I know in my kid's school district we had a choice whether or not we wanted our son to attend our home school,(the school closest to the house) another school, or a charter. So, at least in my area choice exists. I think we need to invest more in our schools and our teachers. Teachers need better pay, math and science need to be better emphasized, and, we need to reinvest in the arts.
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Old 04-10-2013, 04:53 PM   #82
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I know in my kid's school district we had a choice whether or not we wanted our son to attend our home school,(the school closest to the house) another school, or a charter. So, at least in my area choice exists. I think we need to invest more in our schools and our teachers. Teachers need better pay, math and science need to be better emphasized, and, we need to reinvest in the arts.
It's good you have some choice. Definitely not the case everywhere though. And I agree that good teachers need better pay. Unfortunately that can't happen in a system where teachers are often simply paid for how long they've occupied their chair.

School choice will help fix some of this though. If a school has a ****ty teacher, a district can't afford to keep them around long if it means students start walking out the door. And correspondingly, schools will compete to keep the best teachers that draw students.
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Old 04-10-2013, 04:56 PM   #83
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If conservatives such as yourself took responsibility for their fackups, their hypocrisy would diminish a little.

When you gonna 'fess up that 2001-2009 was a colossal case of irresponsibility on your part?
Then you need to take responsibility for 2001-2007. You were part of that group until 2007-ish.
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:02 PM   #84
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No, parents do not own their children and do not get to do whatever they feel like with them.

Parents have a DUTY and RESPONSIBILITY to their children though. And society also has a duty and responsibility to all children (all people really) as well.
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:06 PM   #85
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That's a nice nuclear family you've got there, citizen. Would be a shame if anything happened to it.

Have you made it you mission in life to just randomly drop lame **** into threads? It's not even proper trolling.
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:06 PM   #86
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Yep. Most of the right-wing whiners never set foot on a college campus.
Umm, no, conservatives go to college, and then start careers, or start businesses....where as you liberal clowns will have like 7 years worth of campus parking decals while attending a 2 year community college......basically you guys are just career students.
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:13 PM   #87
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I don't know anybody that is advocating that schools should be in the morality teaching business. However, children learn more from life experiences rather than from words alone. The biggest part of understanding right from wrong is putting those lessons into practice among a group of one's own peers. Hence the necessity of the classroom environment.
You couldn't be more wrong. The right wing would LOVE schools to be in the business of teaching morality: specifically their particular sub brand (whatever it may be) of Christianity.
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:15 PM   #88
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You don't usually choose your child's doctor by whichever one's office is closest. I'm not sure why your child's education should be any different.
Are you not familiar with the HMO system? What you just describe is exactly what is the case for a lot of families. Don't like the doctor your HMO approves: too damn bad cause you can't afford any other! The miracle of the free market at work there.
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:26 PM   #89
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It's good you have some choice. Definitely not the case everywhere though. And I agree that good teachers need better pay. Unfortunately that can't happen in a system where teachers are often simply paid for how long they've occupied their chair.

School choice will help fix some of this though. If a school has a ****ty teacher, a district can't afford to keep them around long if it means students start walking out the door. And correspondingly, schools will compete to keep the best teachers that draw students.
I agree...Schools that educate their students and perform well will see increased enrollment, and better pay for their teachers, where as those that suck will like any other enterprise that sucks, go the way of the dinosaurs.
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:28 PM   #90
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No, parents do not own their children and do not get to do whatever they feel like with them.

Parents have a DUTY and RESPONSIBILITY to their children though. And society also has a duty and responsibility to all children (all people really) as well.
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:32 PM   #91
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Are you not familiar with the HMO system? What you just describe is exactly what is the case for a lot of families. Don't like the doctor your HMO approves: too damn bad cause you can't afford any other! The miracle of the free market at work there.
Free market Fed? Not sure if you're aware, but the modern HMO was masterminded by none other than your federal government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_...on_Act_of_1973

So while you may be right that public education resembles the HMO, it's only further evidence that your expert central planners may not really care about you having access to the best teachers (or doctors) Or maybe it's just that they don't have any idea what they're doing.

Health and Education as delivered to you by trial lawyers.
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:36 PM   #92
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Bring back Dodgeball, it will help establish your childís pecking order for the rest of their school years. Life is competitive and in Dodgeball you learn to destroy the competition and exploit their weaknesses.
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:38 PM   #93
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I think it's funny how people think the federal government can solve problems in schools and health care, when those ****ers can't deliver the mail or fix roads.....

typical liberal idea, "invest" in _____________, which means just toss more $$$ at it....
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:42 PM   #94
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Free market Fed? Not sure if you're aware, but the modern HMO was masterminded by none other than your federal government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_...on_Act_of_1973

As even your own little link spells out, the HMO was not created or mandated by that bill, it was only "encouraged" by that bill, most likely because and HMO suits corporate interests (i.e. controlling costs and increasing profits) rather than patient interests.

Quote:
So while you may be right that public education resembles the HMO, it's only further evidence that your expert central planners may not really care about you having access to the best teachers (or doctors) Or maybe it's just that they don't have any idea what they're doing.

Health and Education as delivered to you by trial lawyers.
Oh look, more strawman whacking!
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:44 PM   #95
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So parents should get to do whatever they please with their children eh? Children are completely owned by their parents -- like slaves? Just asking you to clarify your position, as you seem to be disagreeing with what I said.
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:02 PM   #96
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That's exactly what the Right wants.

Molest/beat the **** out of/abuse your kid because that's a parent's "right".
lol what a joke you are. So now republicans abuse kids more then liberals huh. You're a friggin turd.
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:05 PM   #97
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lol what a joke you are. So now republicans abuse kids more then liberals huh. You're a friggin turd.
Do you or do you not agree that parents (no matter their political persuasion) should be prevented from abusing their children? The answer to that question also answers the 'do parents own their children' question.

I know thinking is tough for some of you righties, but this is a pretty simple concept.
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:14 PM   #98
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As even your own little link spells out, the HMO was not created or mandated by that bill, it was only "encouraged" by that bill, most likely because and HMO suits corporate interests (i.e. controlling costs and increasing profits) rather than patient interests.
Nice try, but the HMO concept was basically dead when the federal government resurrected it.

http://capsules.kaiserhealthnews.org...r-obamas-acos/

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Health experts credit the act for spurring the formation of hundreds of HMOs that eventually would cover nearly 60 million Americans. But most of that growth did not occur for well over a decade after the HMO Act was passed.

In the early 1970s, fewer than 4 million Americans were enrolled in nearly 40 prepaid health plans, most of which were operating in California. By 1980, about 9 million Americans were in HMOs. By 1990, that number more than quadrupled to 37 million.
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Old 04-10-2013, 08:45 PM   #99
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Then you need to take responsibility for 2001-2007. You were part of that group until 2007-ish.
How so?
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:07 PM   #100
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How so?
You were the exact opposite of what you are now. Although you were no better back then as 80% of your posts were a little pissing contest with LABF.
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