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Old 04-07-2013, 01:47 PM   #626
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Ayers is slow off the edge. Always has been always will be. It's why his sacks totals are low his entire career college or pros.
It's not that he's slow off the edge. Even Mayock had commented several times he has a really good quick 1st step.
Doom had great physical talent and technique for speed rushing. That's where he made his $. He didn't have a great spin move, his bull rush was nothing special. But for an undersized player at his position, he got the most out of what his body could do. Ayers has a better NFL body for DE at 6'3 275. I think that's why you see him play the run much better. He has the size and power to play the run more effectively. And Ayers actually has a good 1st step. Speed was not his problem. He lettered in track as a sprinter in HS. His problem was that he was a LB in HS and part of college so he really never developed elite pass rushing techniques. He only really played DE as a starter for 1 year in college. While he didn't get alot of sacks, he did lead his team and his conference in tackles for a loss.

We can't compare Ayers to Doom because they are so VERY different in how they play DE. Doom was a pure pass rusher. Decent at best in the run game. Ayers, is excellent against the run. He tackles well and has good physical tools to get pressure and disrupt things. He doesn't often get the sacks because he just had not had the reps at DE in college and the techniques a rusher needs. I think he's improved those while in the NFL but again, he's not a rush specialist and you won't see him get the sacks that a rush specialist would get. With Ayers, what you will get is a guy who can get some push, will get some pressure, he'll disrupt things in the passing game a little bit on his side. But in the run game he will hold his side well.

I think with Ayers as your starter vs Doom, you play defense on that side a little different. With Doom, of course you had him play to his strength as rush the outside. You had to keep your LB in check and could not really risk blitzing him much because that would leave that side totally wide open for a draw or dump off. With Ayers playing the run better, I think you could see more blitzing of Woodyard. I think JDR is smart enough to know how to call plays and design plays on defense to play to your players' strengths. Of course your're not going to speed rush on the outside nearly as much with Ayers. You'll have him rush in passing downs but play run on the run downs. I think Doom pretty much, for the most part, was rushing no matter down and distance. But again, I think you could blitz from that side more often with a CB or LB because Ayers would play the run better.

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Old 04-07-2013, 06:24 PM   #627
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I went back and read all his scouting reports and almost everyone had "lacks initial burst" or "lacks speed off the edge after snap". Just watching him over the years I can see it. There's reasons why he didnt start in college and continues to get beat out by other players.
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:37 AM   #628
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It's not that he's slow off the edge. Even Mayock had commented several times he has a really good quick 1st step.
Mayock also rated Ayers the "Best Defensive Player" in the 2009 draft. He had both Ayers and Knowshon Moreno as top 5 overall prospects in the entire draft.

Mayock's 2009 "top prospects":
1. Eugene Monroe
2. Michael Crabtree
3. Robert Ayers
4. Knowshon Moreno
5. Brandon Pettigrew
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:13 AM   #629
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Ayers wont be the answer to the broncos pressure on passing downs. Why would people even argue that. IMO Broncos will be tweaking the defense. Look for more pressure brought by the linebackers and a player not named ayers to be a pass rushing DE role player. I'm not guessing what the plan is but I bet Ayers stays put holding the edge so Miller can attack inside or out off the edge.
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:23 AM   #630
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Mayock also rated Ayers the "Best Defensive Player" in the 2009 draft. He had both Ayers and Knowshon Moreno as top 5 overall prospects in the entire draft.

Mayock's 2009 "top prospects":
1. Eugene Monroe
2. Michael Crabtree
3. Robert Ayers
4. Knowshon Moreno
5. Brandon Pettigrew


I think people focusing way to much on Ayers role changing that much. Broncos will stick Wolfe there with jackson backing him up and having a role. That is unless they make a draft pick or still got someone like Freeny.

I'm guessing Broncos try and draft Minter if he is there. Its the one spot even more glaring then DE with doom leaving. Minter probably not an all pro stud but he does have great instincts and most likely starts and makes broncos better at that spot then last yr. Thats what Elway will look for IMO. Someone in the first round who makes us better this yr. Not sure any draft pick would be better then Wolfe and Jackson with maybe still signing someone like Freeney if he drops his price.

Maybe even TEO who knows. But I think with mays almost for sure gone at some point, brooking a one yr fix and wont get better, not much out there in FA excpet an aged Urlacher makes me suddenly feel Broncos go linebacker in the first round. Someone they think can play the middle.
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:07 AM   #631
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I think people focusing way to much on Ayers role changing that much. Broncos will stick Wolfe there with jackson backing him up and having a role. That is unless they make a draft pick or still got someone like Freeny.

I'm guessing Broncos try and draft Minter if he is there. Its the one spot even more glaring then DE with doom leaving. Minter probably not an all pro stud but he does have great instincts and most likely starts and makes broncos better at that spot then last yr. Thats what Elway will look for IMO. Someone in the first round who makes us better this yr. Not sure any draft pick would be better then Wolfe and Jackson with maybe still signing someone like Freeney if he drops his price.

Maybe even TEO who knows. But I think with mays almost for sure gone at some point, brooking a one yr fix and wont get better, not much out there in FA excpet an aged Urlacher makes me suddenly feel Broncos go linebacker in the first round. Someone they think can play the middle.
I don't think they will put Wolfe at RDE.
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Old 04-08-2013, 09:47 AM   #632
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Mayock also rated Ayers the "Best Defensive Player" in the 2009 draft. He had both Ayers and Knowshon Moreno as top 5 overall prospects in the entire draft.

Mayock's 2009 "top prospects":
1. Eugene Monroe
2. Michael Crabtree
3. Robert Ayers
4. Knowshon Moreno
5. Brandon Pettigrew
He said Ayers has the ability to develope into the best player in the draft 3 years from the draft.
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Old 04-08-2013, 09:57 AM   #633
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He said Ayers has the ability to develope into the best player in the draft 3 years from the draft.
Sorry but Ayers will never reach the level of Orakpo, Cushing or Matthews. All taken after him (Except Orakpo, but he could have been ours). I am sure that there are even better defenders that where picked in the later rounds.

I would love for nothing more than to see Ayers flourish. But he has been in the NFL for 4 years now, started 2 of them and done squat. It's not like he has been injured too. He is just not a pass rusher, and an overrated run defender. Is he a bad player? NO! But in my mind he is a bust because we drafted him to rush the passer and complement Elvis at that time. Things he never accomplished.

But hey... at least we didn't have to deal anymore with the awesomeness that was John Engelberger.
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Old 04-08-2013, 09:59 AM   #634
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I'm guessing Broncos try and draft Minter if he is there. Its the one spot even more glaring then DE with doom leaving.
You might be right. Minter's combine time was revised down to 4.7, and he ran a 4.67 at the LSU Pro Day. It certainly puts him right back in the thick of it at #28.

There are a lot of teams picking before the Broncos that need an ILB though. Minter has probably established himself as the best option at ILB in this draft with his offseason workouts.

It'll be interesting, that's for sure. If D. Moore is gone, it's tough to consider which player has more value: Minter or Carradine.

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Old 04-08-2013, 10:42 AM   #635
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The Broncos already have Kevin Minter on the roster. His name is Joe Mays. Another short, stocky LB with stone hands and great ability to miss open field tackles.
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:34 PM   #636
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I had Manti Te'o, Kevin Minter, and Arthur Brown at a dead heat at MIKE going into the combine.

Kevin Minter - 22 years old, 6'0" 246 lbs. - His game tape is good, was on the verge of beating Alabama until a last minute LSU meltdown. 4.70 Combine forty is a lot faster than originally posted, 4.67 Pro Day, and decent in short area drills. Shows good pursuit and ability to locate and tackle the ball-carrier. Is Minter a 3-down LB? Is he enough of a playmaker to be a 1st round pick?

Manti Te'o - 22 years old, 6'1" 241 lbs.- Has rebounded nicely, dropping some weight, performing well in short area drills and posting a 4.75 at his Pro Day. Good game tape, except against Alabama. Great ability to take on blockers, and make plays. Is Te'o fast enough to be a 3-down LB?

Arthur Brown - 22 years old, 6'0" 241 lbs. - Quicker/slighter build than either Te'o or Minter in college, but has added 13 pounds in the offseason. Great athlete, had tendency to dance around blocks at a lighter weight. 4.67 forty is same as Minter. Can Brown keep on the weight and play effectively on the inside in the NFL?

The darkhorse candidate, who I've latched onto since the Senior bowl, is Sio Moore. He may be available at #58:

4. Sio Moore - 22 years old, 6'1" 245 lbs. - Played mostly at rush LB in college, but showed great ability to shed blocks, and play inside as a half-field LB too. Not only is he a prolific tackler, but possesses good QB rush-ability. Great athletic showing at the combine. 4.62 forty. Can play all LB positions in a 4-3. Good value at #58. Is Sio Moore cut-out to be an NFL MIKE?


Minter, Te'o, Brown, or Moore? Tough call. If it was me, I would go ahead and draft the 1st round DE (D. Moore or Carradine) at #28, then target Sio Moore at #58. Complete the trifecta with a pick at #90 of Christine Michael RB.
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:03 PM   #637
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I had Manti Te'o, Kevin Minter, and Arthur Brown at a dead heat at MIKE going into the combine.

Kevin Minter - 22 years old, 6'0" 246 lbs. - His game tape is good, was on the verge of beating Alabama until a last minute LSU meltdown. 4.70 Combine forty is a lot faster than originally posted, 4.67 Pro Day, and decent in short area drills. Shows good pursuit and ability to locate and tackle the ball-carrier. Is Minter a 3-down LB? Is he enough of a playmaker to be a 1st round pick?

Manti Te'o - 22 years old, 6'1" 241 lbs.- Has rebounded nicely, dropping some weight, performing well in short area drills and posting a 4.75 at his Pro Day. Good game tape, except against Alabama. Great ability to take on blockers, and make plays. Is Te'o fast enough to be a 3-down LB?

Arthur Brown - 22 years old, 6'0" 241 lbs. - Quicker/slighter build than either Te'o or Minter in college, but has added 13 pounds in the offseason. Great athlete, had tendency to dance around blocks at a lighter weight. 4.67 forty is same as Minter. Can Brown keep on the weight and play effectively on the inside in the NFL?

The darkhorse candidate, who I've latched onto since the Senior bowl, is Sio Moore. He may be available at #58:

4. Sio Moore - 22 years old, 6'1" 245 lbs. - Played mostly at rush LB in college, but showed great ability to shed blocks, and play inside as a half-field LB too. Not only is he a prolific tackler, but possesses good QB rush-ability. Great athletic showing at the combine. 4.62 forty. Can play all LB positions in a 4-3. Good value at #58. Is Sio Moore cut-out to be an NFL MIKE?


Minter, Te'o, Brown, or Moore? Tough call. If it was me, I would go ahead and draft the 1st round DE (D. Moore or Carradine) at #28, then target Sio Moore at #58. Complete the trifecta with a pick at #90 of Christine Michael RB.
Would love any of the 3. Here are 3 other darkhorse names at MLB: Kiko Alonso, Jon Bostic and Kevin Reddick. I think we can have any of the 3 in the 3rd round or lower. Great value if you ask me.
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:13 PM   #638
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Minter, Te'o, Brown, or Moore? Tough call. If it was me, I would go ahead and draft the 1st round DE (D. Moore or Carradine) at #28, then target Sio Moore at #58. Complete the trifecta with a pick at #90 of Christine Michael RB.[/QUOTE]



This would be pure joy...............
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:34 PM   #639
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I had Manti Te'o, Kevin Minter, and Arthur Brown at a dead heat at MIKE going into the combine.

Kevin Minter - 22 years old, 6'0" 246 lbs. - His game tape is good, was on the verge of beating Alabama until a last minute LSU meltdown. 4.70 Combine forty is a lot faster than originally posted, 4.67 Pro Day, and decent in short area drills. Shows good pursuit and ability to locate and tackle the ball-carrier. Is Minter a 3-down LB? Is he enough of a playmaker to be a 1st round pick?

Manti Te'o - 22 years old, 6'1" 241 lbs.- Has rebounded nicely, dropping some weight, performing well in short area drills and posting a 4.75 at his Pro Day. Good game tape, except against Alabama. Great ability to take on blockers, and make plays. Is Te'o fast enough to be a 3-down LB?

Arthur Brown - 22 years old, 6'0" 241 lbs. - Quicker/slighter build than either Te'o or Minter in college, but has added 13 pounds in the offseason. Great athlete, had tendency to dance around blocks at a lighter weight. 4.67 forty is same as Minter. Can Brown keep on the weight and play effectively on the inside in the NFL?

The darkhorse candidate, who I've latched onto since the Senior bowl, is Sio Moore. He may be available at #58:

4. Sio Moore - 22 years old, 6'1" 245 lbs. - Played mostly at rush LB in college, but showed great ability to shed blocks, and play inside as a half-field LB too. Not only is he a prolific tackler, but possesses good QB rush-ability. Great athletic showing at the combine. 4.62 forty. Can play all LB positions in a 4-3. Good value at #58. Is Sio Moore cut-out to be an NFL MIKE?


Minter, Te'o, Brown, or Moore? Tough call. If it was me, I would go ahead and draft the 1st round DE (D. Moore or Carradine) at #28, then target Sio Moore at #58. Complete the trifecta with a pick at #90 of Christine Michael RB.
I would rather sign Urlacker for a year or 2 than take a chance on Teo.
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Old 04-08-2013, 10:40 PM   #640
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I think Denver has had enough drama with tebow. I say pass on Te-o at all costs.
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Old 04-09-2013, 06:15 AM   #641
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Sorry but Ayers will never reach the level of Orakpo, Cushing or Matthews. All taken after him (Except Orakpo, but he could have been ours). I am sure that there are even better defenders that where picked in the later rounds.
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I agree and I never said he was. Mayock never said he was the best defender in the draft like Pricejj said either. He said he COULD be which he is not now that time has passed.
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Old 04-09-2013, 06:57 AM   #642
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I agree and I never said he was. Mayock never said he was the best defender in the draft like Pricejj said either. He said he COULD be which he is not now that time has passed.
And Robby Alford COULD be the best defender of this draft... doesn't mean take him at 1.

Silly how that works, right?
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Old 04-09-2013, 07:00 AM   #643
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And Robby Alford COULD be the best defender of this draft... doesn't mean take him at 1.

Silly how that works, right?
Bobby's World.
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Old 04-09-2013, 07:09 AM   #644
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:03 AM   #645
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:06 AM   #646
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I had Manti Te'o, Kevin Minter, and Arthur Brown at a dead heat at MIKE going into the combine.

Kevin Minter - 22 years old, 6'0" 246 lbs. - His game tape is good, was on the verge of beating Alabama until a last minute LSU meltdown. 4.70 Combine forty is a lot faster than originally posted, 4.67 Pro Day, and decent in short area drills. Shows good pursuit and ability to locate and tackle the ball-carrier. Is Minter a 3-down LB? Is he enough of a playmaker to be a 1st round pick?

Manti Te'o - 22 years old, 6'1" 241 lbs.- Has rebounded nicely, dropping some weight, performing well in short area drills and posting a 4.75 at his Pro Day. Good game tape, except against Alabama. Great ability to take on blockers, and make plays. Is Te'o fast enough to be a 3-down LB?

Arthur Brown - 22 years old, 6'0" 241 lbs. - Quicker/slighter build than either Te'o or Minter in college, but has added 13 pounds in the offseason. Great athlete, had tendency to dance around blocks at a lighter weight. 4.67 forty is same as Minter. Can Brown keep on the weight and play effectively on the inside in the NFL?

The darkhorse candidate, who I've latched onto since the Senior bowl, is Sio Moore. He may be available at #58:

4. Sio Moore - 22 years old, 6'1" 245 lbs. - Played mostly at rush LB in college, but showed great ability to shed blocks, and play inside as a half-field LB too. Not only is he a prolific tackler, but possesses good QB rush-ability. Great athletic showing at the combine. 4.62 forty. Can play all LB positions in a 4-3. Good value at #58. Is Sio Moore cut-out to be an NFL MIKE?


Minter, Te'o, Brown, or Moore? Tough call. If it was me, I would go ahead and draft the 1st round DE (D. Moore or Carradine) at #28, then target Sio Moore at #58. Complete the trifecta with a pick at #90 of Christine Michael RB.
i want no part of Brown as a MLB. Te'o and Minter i can deal with. outside of them Bostic or Reddick.
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:32 AM   #647
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Mayock said, he thought on draft day in 5 yrs Ayers could be the best player in the draft. Well he missed on that one.
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:52 AM   #648
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And Robby Alford COULD be the best defender of this draft... doesn't mean take him at 1.

Silly how that works, right?
Really bad pick considering that he was being moved to OLB in a scheme that didn't fit his few average skills. On top of that Moreno was picked to give us 2 kicks to the nuts.
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Old 04-09-2013, 07:27 PM   #649
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Really bad pick considering that he was being moved to OLB in a scheme that didn't fit his few average skills. On top of that Moreno was picked to give us 2 kicks to the nuts.
If you think Ayers and Moreno were nut-punts...

...the Broncos traded the #14th overall pick in 2010 for the #37 overall pick in 2009, Alphonso Smith.

Earl Thomas, Safety (#14 overall 2010), has been All-Pro twice (2011, 2012).

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Old 04-09-2013, 07:33 PM   #650
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If you think Ayers and Moreno were nut-punts...

...the Broncos traded the #14th overall pick in 2010 for the #37 overall pick in 2009, Alphonso Smith.

Earl Thomas, Safety (#14 overall 2010), has been All-Pro twice (2011, 2012).

Just terrible. Alphonso Smith may just be the worst draft pick in recent history. Trade a 1 st rd pick from a strong draft for a 2nd round pick in a garbage draft. There is your explaination for the team going 4-12 when you draft like that.
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