The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Jibba Jabba > War, Religion and Politics Thread
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-09-2013, 10:41 AM   #101
BroncoLifer
Living the Dream
 
BroncoLifer's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boulder County
Posts: 1,440

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Harris
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
So I'll assume you didn't read his take on Thatcher, most of which you'd probably agree with. Oh, well. Continue wallowing in your ignorance.
I will. I'll continue to be ignorant of much of what Andrew Sullivan thinks. I'll survive.
BroncoLifer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 10:50 AM   #102
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 18,734
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoLifer View Post
I will. I'll continue to be ignorant of much of what Andrew Sullivan thinks. I'll survive.
And yet you're all up to speed on his "Trig Palin obsession". Interesting.
TonyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 11:29 AM   #103
Kaylore
Shall we begin?
 
Kaylore's Avatar
 
You should have let me sleep!

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 45,812

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Pat Bowlen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blart View Post


"Capitalism means male baldness research gets more funding than malaria" - Bill Gates
In America? Absolutely. Is there a Malaria outbreak in the US? How many people do you know who get Malaria? Most of the outbreaks are on another continent. And only few a die each year. Not that those deaths aren't sad, but we're talking about first world versus third world. The US averages around 1500 malaria infections a year, most infected overseas, and zero die. Conversely, baldness affects 49 million Americans.

The US spends $1 Billion on baldness every year, though a good deal of that is on temporary fixes (wigs, spray on, etc.) I don't know how much is spent on malaria, but it's probably not much. But then we don't spend a lot of the black plague, leprosy or small pox. Why? Because they aren't a problem.

On the flip side, the 5 top killers in America are 1. Heart disease. 2. Cancer. 3. Chronic Respiratory disease. 4. Stroke and 5. Accidents. The US spends around 80 Billion on heart disease alone. Even more is spent on Cancer (it was harder for me to find exact numbers because they are broken down by the type but just lung, brain and blood cancer beat heart disease.)

So this kind of comment that makes socialists like you feel like it shows how broken capitalism is doesn't work when you really get down to it. I'm not going to sit here and say capitalism makes for perfect health care, but really, you can do better.

And personally if someone wants to shell out money for hair plugs, more power to them.
Kaylore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 11:40 AM   #104
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 54,279

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
The left doesn't like that someone can have more than someone else. And they believe government is better at spending your money than you will ever be (I suppose spending it is one thing they are "better" at). They know better because they have "the people's interests" at heart.
Equitable does not mean "even." In 1980 the average CEO made thirty times more than the average employee. Nothing wrong with that. After Reagan, that figure moved up to 525 times the rate of the average employee.

Government is supposed to spend. Says right there in the preamble to the Constitution. It's supposed to collect and spend revenue in order to, "...form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity..."

What it's not supposed to do is allow its representatives to collect money directly from the top 1% and then write legislation and regulations to favor that 1% which is what has been going on for thirty years. We no longer have representative government. Our government operates for the welfare of the corporations who can buy representation. We're the first Lobbyocracy. Given the state of income and wealth inequality in America right now, the idea of "domestic tranquility" is right out the window.

Government is there to ensure that the rungs of the ladder are available, equally to all. It's up to you whether you make use of them. I don't know what the "left" wants, but I want the same thing that TR wanted for America, a square deal. Instead of a rigged game.

Last edited by Rohirrim; 04-09-2013 at 12:30 PM..
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 11:46 AM   #105
BroncoLifer
Living the Dream
 
BroncoLifer's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Boulder County
Posts: 1,440

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Harris
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
And yet you're all up to speed on his "Trig Palin obsession". Interesting.
I'm not at all up to speed on it. That's why I asked if there were any developments.
BroncoLifer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 11:47 AM   #106
Kaylore
Shall we begin?
 
Kaylore's Avatar
 
You should have let me sleep!

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 45,812

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Pat Bowlen
Default

The government IS the problem, Rohirrim. Large super corps and government are both uber-powerful entities that have too much influence in our lives. The difference is the government has an army and controls our laws. You don't have to shop at Wal-mart. If you don't follow the US, you go to jail.
Kaylore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 11:52 AM   #107
UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
I. HATE. THE. OFFSEASON!
 
UltimateHoboW/Shotgun's Avatar
 
Time to believe!

Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Gensis Planet
Posts: 6,406

Adopt-a-Bronco:
C.J. Anderson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
The government IS the problem, Rohirrim. Large super corps and government are both uber-powerful entities that have too much influence in our lives. The difference is the government has an army and controls our laws. You don't have to shop at Wal-mart. If you don't follow the US, you go to jail.
Truth^
UltimateHoboW/Shotgun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 12:09 PM   #108
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,991

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
The government IS the problem, Rohirrim. Large super corps and government are both uber-powerful entities that have too much influence in our lives. The difference is the government has an army and controls our laws. You don't have to shop at Wal-mart. If you don't follow the US, you go to jail.
No kaylore,the difference is we have control over who runs our government. We have no power over who runs a corporation. The problem is corporations have too much influence in our government. The way you fix both is by voting out politicians,dem or rep, that serve them over the will of the people.

Last edited by peacepipe; 04-09-2013 at 12:29 PM..
peacepipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 12:12 PM   #109
Kaylore
Shall we begin?
 
Kaylore's Avatar
 
You should have let me sleep!

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 45,812

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Pat Bowlen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
No kaylore,the difference is we have control over who runs our government.
You're adorable.
Kaylore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 12:19 PM   #110
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,991

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
You're adorable.
I can understand, from your pov,being in the minority opinion, you feel you have no control over government.
peacepipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 12:28 PM   #111
Rohirrim
Partisan
 
Rohirrim's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater
Posts: 54,279

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Malik Jackson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
No kaylore,the difference is we have control over who runs our government. We have no power over who runs a corporation. The problem is corporations have too much influence in our government. The you fix both is by voting out politicians,dem or rep, that serve them over the will of the people.
Bingo.

Add in: Get rid of Citizens United, outlaw lobbies, and make all elections publicly funded.
Rohirrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 12:35 PM   #112
BroncoBeavis
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
No kaylore,the difference is we have control over who runs our government. We have no power over who runs a corporation. The problem is corporations have too much influence in our government. The way you fix both is by voting out politicians,dem or rep, that serve them over the will of the people.
This is funny. There are 5 million or so corporations in this country you can choose to give your money to (or not). But because you're allowed to choose between one of two entities of power in Washington you somehow believe that makes them more accountable to you.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 12:39 PM   #113
Bronco Yoda
.
 
Bronco Yoda's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 8,746
Default















Get Adobe Flash player

Bronco Yoda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 12:53 PM   #114
Archer81
Optimum Homo
 
Archer81's Avatar
 
Tactical Neck.

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 22,538
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
No kaylore,the difference is we have control over who runs our government. We have no power over who runs a corporation. The problem is corporations have too much influence in our government. The way you fix both is by voting out politicians,dem or rep, that serve them over the will of the people.

Like how Obama made sure Monsanto has legal protections, kinda like that?


Archer81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 12:56 PM   #115
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 18,734
Default

Thatcher on climate change:

Quote:
[H]er speech laid out a simple conservative argument for taking environmental action: “It may be cheaper or more cost-effective to take action now,” she said, “than to wait and find we have to pay much more later.” Global warming was, she argued, “real enough for us to make changes and sacrifices, so that we do not live at the expense of future generations.”

The Iron Lady’s speech makes for fascinating reading in the context of 2013′s climate acrimony, drenched as it is in party politics. In the speech, she questioned the very meaning of human progress: Booming industrial advances since the Age of Enlightenment could no longer be sustained in the context of environmental damage. We must, she argued, redress the imbalance with nature wrought by development.

“Remember our duty to nature before it is too late,” she warned. “That duty is constant. It is never completed. It lives on as we breathe.”
http://grist.org/climate-energy/how-...limate-action/
TonyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 12:58 PM   #116
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 18,734
Default

Quote:
...some other discomforting facts for today’s American right. Thatcher was a firm believer in international law – and opposed the US invasion of Grenada and Argentina’s invasion of the Falklands as a violation of that order. She was a strong supporter of nuclear deterrence and containment – as opposed to pre-emptive war. She wanted UN support for any intervention in Iraq, and inisted it be limited to restoration of the old borders. She cut taxes but, unlike the GOP under Reagan and the second Bush, she also cut spending seriously. She didn’t have any time for the loopy idea that cutting taxes would increase net revenues.

She inherited and handed over a fully socialized medical system, and, while tearing apart the government’s control of the economy, did not undo the welfare state in any profound way. “The National Health Service Is Safe With Us” was her constant refrain. Her policies on healthcare make Obama’s modest private sector-based reform look positively right-wing. She loathed Europe but signed the Maastricht Treaty, and deepened British ties to the Continent. She was the first Cold Warrior to respond to Gorbachev. In all this, she remains pragmatically alien to the current Southern-based GOP. And her undemonstrative Methodism was never worn on her sleeve.

Like Reagan, in other words, she could never be a contender in today’s GOP. She was far too conservative, in the proper sense of that word. She preferred order to revolution – and her own revolution was about the restoration of civic order, not its dissolution.
http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/...ys-green-side/
TonyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 12:59 PM   #117
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,991

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81 View Post
Like how Obama made sure Monsanto has legal protections, kinda like that?


He definitely isn't perfect,far from. He's a hell of a lot better than anyone reps or libertarians are parading.
peacepipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 01:06 PM   #118
Kaylore
Shall we begin?
 
Kaylore's Avatar
 
You should have let me sleep!

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 45,812

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Pat Bowlen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
I can understand, from your pov,being in the minority opinion, you feel you have no control over government.
You really don't know me at all. I caucus every election cycle - even the crappy off-year ones. I've been a delegate to every level for my party. It's not that I don't think you can change things or that government can't do anything right.

It's that power corrupts and the road to hell is paved with good intentions. If you give sweeping powers to government - even when you know that the intent is %100 righteous - that doesn't mean that it always will be. And my experience is that every single politician is lying sack of garbage. When permanently give away your liberties, you never get them back. And the power the government takes, the more open the door is for terrible things when a leader is bad.

It amazes me how the left will insist that corporations are bad because they have too much power and then say Republicans are bad, yet they want government to have all this power - power that Republicans sometimes will have, and then whine when they do things they don't like. Doesn't that bother you? Don't you see the flaw in that logic? You're the ones insisting that system allow for that! Yet many of you are naive enough honestly believe that "only Republicans are bad and Democrats would never abuse their power because they are all good."

Fools.

Last edited by Kaylore; 04-09-2013 at 01:10 PM..
Kaylore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 01:06 PM   #119
Archer81
Optimum Homo
 
Archer81's Avatar
 
Tactical Neck.

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 22,538
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
He definitely isn't perfect,far from. He's a hell of a lot better than anyone reps or libertarians are parading.

That's like saying he's the tallest midget.


Archer81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 01:10 PM   #120
gyldenlove
Ring of Famer
 
gyldenlove's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Næstved, DK
Posts: 10,995

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Spencer Larsen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81 View Post
That's like saying he's the tallest midget.


That is me.
gyldenlove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 01:12 PM   #121
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,991

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
This is funny. There are 5 million or so corporations in this country you can choose to give your money to (or not). But because you're allowed to choose between one of two entities of power in Washington you somehow believe that makes them more accountable to you.
Yes, and corporations will make the call on who controls them regardless. Government on the other and,has this little thing called voting,you can vote for whoever you choose regardless of whether they belong to certain party or not. Yes,there are two major parties but there are Senators who have been elected that didn't belong to either party when elected.
peacepipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 01:19 PM   #122
ColoradoDarin
Not Too Shabby Poster
 
ColoradoDarin's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: St Augustine, FL
Posts: 7,499

Adopt-a-Bronco:
T J Ward
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
Bingo.

Add in: Get rid of Citizens United, outlaw lobbies, and make all elections publicly funded.
Why do you hate the 1st Amendment?
ColoradoDarin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 01:22 PM   #123
Kaylore
Shall we begin?
 
Kaylore's Avatar
 
You should have let me sleep!

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 45,812

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Pat Bowlen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
Yes, and corporations will make the call on who controls them regardless.
You JUST said that "we" control government. Now ten posts later you're saying corporations control it. Which is it, Peacepipe?
Kaylore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 01:25 PM   #124
BroncoBeavis
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
Yes, and corporations will make the call on who controls them regardless. Government on the other and,has this little thing called voting,you can vote for whoever you choose regardless of whether they belong to certain party or not. Yes,there are two major parties but there are Senators who have been elected that didn't belong to either party when elected.
Like that matters. Let me know as soon as one gets elected that decides not to caucus with a party once he gets there. It's not how the dude titles himself that matters. It's who and what he votes for when he gets there.

And on another level, at least when I'm voting with my dollar on oil companies, I'm choosing between 4 or 5 companies that know a little something about the business.

But when I vote for my political leaders, I'm voting for a (likely ne'er employed-in-the-real-world) trial lawyer's perspective on how to produce energy. Or deliver health care. Or command the economy.

In all cases, it's about the least intelligent way you could ever imagine to solve most kinds of problems. Our government has its hands in far too many cookie jars.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 01:42 PM   #125
peacepipe
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,991

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
You JUST said that "we" control government. Now ten posts later you're saying corporations control it. Which is it, Peacepipe?
We do control government,a point that seems to be lost on you. I also stated that the way you fix the influence corporations have over our government is by who you vote for. We can't control who runs a corporation. Unfortunately right now corporations have too much influence,a way to stop that is by electing politicians who put people 1st not corporations.
peacepipe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:22 AM.


Denver Broncos