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Old 04-04-2013, 10:05 AM   #1176
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Just a quick question. Since the north of the wall people burn all the dead, does that mean that the dead turn into zombies and the whitewalkers are really just badass zombies?
Not exactly.

The Wights are the Zombies. The White Walkers are a separate race of intelligent creatures who animate the wights as their army. The white walkers are not zombies - they create them.
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Old 04-04-2013, 10:20 AM   #1177
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I had a friend drop by my place the other night and gave me the first season on BluRay. Watched the first two episodes and really wasn't that interested. Kind of seems slow. Hopefully it gets better.
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Old 04-04-2013, 10:36 AM   #1178
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I had a friend drop by my place the other night and gave me the first season on BluRay. Watched the first two episodes and really wasn't that interested. Kind of seems slow. Hopefully it gets better.
The first two episodes of virtually any show worth watching is slow because it's establishing a foundation for the story to be told on.
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Old 04-04-2013, 10:56 AM   #1179
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Not exactly.

The Wights are the Zombies. The White Walkers are a separate race of intelligent creatures who animate the wights as their army. The white walkers are not zombies - they create them.
What do you think coldhands is?
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:24 AM   #1180
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Not exactly.

The Wights are the Zombies. The White Walkers are a separate race of intelligent creatures who animate the wights as their army. The white walkers are not zombies - they create them.
That's basically how I understand it, too, but it's kind of intentionally mushy.

Here's what I understand:

Roughly 12,000 years ago, an ethnic group of humans (now referred to as "The First Men") invaded Westeros across a land bridge from the east. They found that the land was already occupied by a race of being called the "Children of the Forest." These beings were smaller, less numerous and less technologically advanced than the invading humans, but they had access to "nature magic."

After generations of warfare, the First Men gradually pushed back the Children of the Forest and establish dozens, if not hundreds, of small kingdoms.

About 10,000 years ago, a truce was reached, whereby the Children were given dominion over the major forests, while the Men occupied the open lands. Except for a group who adopted "The Drowned God" (in the Iron Islands), the First Men adopt the worship of the Old Gods of the Forest.

About 8,000 years ago, the "Long Night" descended and presumably lasted for nearly an entire generation. A long and savage winter moved south, and with it came "The Others." The "Others" were able to kill people and then raise them up as undead servants (zombies or "wights.") They were eventually driven back by the First Men, led by a legendary hero called "Azor Ahai."

Subsequently, with the aid of magic, giants, and (possibly) the remaining Children of the Forest, they constructed the great ice wall to keep the "Others" out. The Night Watch was formed to guard it.

At this time, there were still some people living north of the wall (calling themselves "The Free Folk" but known to southerners as the "Wildlings.")

Not long after, one of the Commanders of the Night Watch, supposedly seduced by one of the undead, declared himself the Night King, and used the Watch as his personal army and committed all kinds of atrocities. He was defeated by an alliance between the Starks of Winterfell and Joramun, a Wildling leader, also known as "The King Beyond the Wall." Afterwards, the Night Watch was restored.

Thousands of years go by and all of this falls into myth and legend. Over time, the Wall becomes mostly a barrier to prevent Wildlings from raiding the southern side.

In the legends of southern Westeros, the undead are referred to as "The Others." Close to the Wall and North of the Wall, those same beings are often referred to as "The White Walkers." One gets the idea that the legends don't necessarily distinguish between the intelligent masters (who may or may not be undead spirits) and the more or less mindless wights (who they have apparently raised from the dead to serve as minions.) Likewise, various characters in the book don't necessarily distinguish between them at the outset since they don't really know what they are dealing with.

Additional things that still aren't clear. It's not clear what kind of ritual is needed or what it's range might be in order to raise people as zombies. Or whether it's more or less automatic. (It certainly isn't automatic south of the Wall - at least not at this point.) It's also unclear whether the intelligent "Others" have their own bodies or are somehow possessing the bodies of the living. The whole thing is still uncatalogued (and probably scarier as a result of that).
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:07 PM   #1181
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The first two episodes of virtually any show worth watching is slow because it's establishing a foundation for the story to be told on.
I thought the first fifteen minutes of Season 1 Episode 1 were extremely provacative. They do a great job of creating a really authentic feel.

Shoot, the theme song by itself is freaking awesome.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:22 PM   #1182
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What do you think coldhands is?

Purely Speculative Spoiler: ( Benjen Stark: 80%; The Night King 12%; Some other figure from history: 6%; Someone we've never heard of: 2%. )
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Old 04-04-2013, 02:12 PM   #1183
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Purely Speculative Spoiler: ( Benjen Stark: 80%; The Night King 12%; Some other figure from history: 6%; Someone we've never heard of: 2%. )
That is spot on with my theory as well
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Old 04-04-2013, 02:36 PM   #1184
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Purely Speculative Spoiler: ( Benjen Stark: 80%; The Night King 12%; Some other figure from history: 6%; Someone we've never heard of: 2%. )
Not the first. He's explained to be extremely ancient
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:50 PM   #1185
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What the HELL happened to Benjin?
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:39 AM   #1186
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PMd
What is PMd?
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Old 04-05-2013, 05:42 AM   #1187
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Additional things that still aren't clear. It's not clear what kind of ritual is needed or what it's range might be in order to raise people as zombies. Or whether it's more or less automatic. (It certainly isn't automatic south of the Wall - at least not at this point.) It's also unclear whether the intelligent "Others" have their own bodies or are somehow possessing the bodies of the living. The whole thing is still uncatalogued (and probably scarier as a result of that).
When they created the wall, they instilled some sort of magic into its core. It acts as a giant stop gap on not just flesh, but spells. SPOILER: ( Remember when Snow went back over the wall, and he couldn't sense Ghost anymore? That was because of the wall blocking his warg senses. )

Last edited by DivineLegion; 04-05-2013 at 05:50 AM..
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:23 AM   #1188
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What is PMd?
PM'd or private messaged ie "sent you a private message with the details."
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:00 AM   #1189
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Not the first. He's explained to be extremely ancient
I don't think that's categorically chiseled in stone. The phrase "a long time ago" doesn't necessarily mean "extremely ancient." Given the identity of who said that and how we assume they would subjectively perceive the passage of time, I can see why you'd assume that, and it's a very strong point, but we also have to remember who is on the receiving end of this message, and the speaker may have been taking that into account. We also need to know more about the motivation of the speaker because some people are in cohoots with others and, at this point, it's not entirely clear why.

Remember that Martin often uses the device of unreliable narrators.

In short, I think Martin has left that door wide open by being just about as vague as possible.

When you get past that, you're left with bits and pieces of circumstantial evidence, pointing in various directions and floating around in a puddle of the still-unexplained.

Also, since we're dealing with a magical being in a world increasingly full of magical stuff, including possession and transmigration, the truth could actually be a some combination of the various theories.
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:57 AM   #1190
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PM'd or private messaged ie "sent you a private message with the details."
Thanks, I thought he was taking about a new torrent option or something that I didn't know about.
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:30 AM   #1191
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Here's a little collection of GoT's themed NFL wallpapers.

Original Link to the Reddit Thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments...a_vikings_and/

Link to the Imgur collection: http://whatshotdjroomba.imgur.com/
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:09 AM   #1192
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What the HELL happened to Benjin?
Motha-****'n

BUMP
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:36 AM   #1193
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Motha-****'n

BUMP
Spoiler: (Up through the fifth novel, we still don't know. He may just be permanently MIA. Some people speculate that he was killed, transformed into a wight, but somehow retained his mind or personality and appears in later books as a character called "Coldhands." But that is a big ongoing mystery and far from clear or settled.)
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:09 PM   #1194
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Additional Spoilers on White Walkers, Wights and "The Others": (1. In the TV Series, "The Others" are more frequently referred to as "White Walkers" than in the books. One reason for this was supposedly to avoid confusion with "The Others" as used in the "Lost" TV series. 2. The "wights" are pretty much as we've seen them portrayed in the TV series, i.e. undead. They aren't completely mindless (as in the Walking Dead") since they do retain some skills such as weaponry and -undead- horse riding, and a couple of them early on in the books showed at least a little familiarity with the Night Watch layout and pecking order. But they do appear to have very little free will. They are marked by the stench of decay, eerie blue eyes and dark hands where the frozen blood has congealed. 3. Recently, in an email to a comic book artist, who was trying to figure out how to portray "The Others," i.e. the leaders, Martin stated: "The Others are not dead. They are strange, beautiful ... think, oh ... the Sidhe [the fey of Celtic myth] made of ice, something like that ... a different sort of life ... inhuman, elegant, dangerous." (emphasis added) 4. However, in the TV series, "The Others" in the one quick shot we've seen, appear to be shadowed and "brutish" looking..)

Hope that helps.

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Old 04-08-2013, 05:04 AM   #1195
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Episode 2, Season 3.

Lots of plotlines advancing slowly.
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Old 04-08-2013, 05:26 AM   #1196
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What the HELL happened to Benjin?
He's most likely dead. Not sure we will ever know for sure what happened to him. This story seems like the kind that won't spell everything out. The two rangers he was with were dead and its been a long time since that happened. Hard to believe he would be alive out there or that the others would bother having prisoners.

I guess he could be hiding somewhere but you would think he would have turned up by now.
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:29 AM   #1197
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I have hopes he met with some children of the forest and they worked some voodoo on him.
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:29 AM   #1198
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What did we think of S3 E2?

I thought it was a bit slow, and with so much to fit into S3 I'm not sure why HBO continues to replace GRRM writing with their own, made up scenes and dialog.

I mean, it's still okay, but E2 was certainly lacking.
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Old 04-08-2013, 08:25 AM   #1199
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What did we think of S3 E2?

I thought it was a bit slow, and with so much to fit into S3 I'm not sure why HBO continues to replace GRRM writing with their own, made up scenes and dialog.

I mean, it's still okay, but E2 was certainly lacking.
I read an interview with the writers where they talked about the inclusion of Theons story in season 3. They needed to fill time in season 3 to spread the story out over 2 seasons, and they have a strange fascination with Theons character. Apparently the actor who portrays Theon blew them away with his characterization, and they felt like he needed to remain relivent. I feel like they could have focused more on Nights Watch, and their epic retreat. They cut a lot of the detail, including the battle of the fist, and they could have drawn these elements in if they would have planned it better. Apparently they are also worried about letting GOT take on the montra of a full fledged fantasy drama, this they don't emphasize the fantasy elements, and are more inclined to I corperate more personal dilemma. I think this is why it took them so long to incorporate the Reeds.
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Old 04-08-2013, 08:37 AM   #1200
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I read an interview with the writers where they talked about the inclusion of Theons story in season 3. They needed to fill time in season 3 to spread the story out over 2 seasons, and they have a strange fascination with Theons character. Apparently the actor who portrays Theon blew them away with his characterization, and they felt like he needed to remain relivent. I feel like they could have focused more on Nights Watch, and their epic retreat. They cut a lot of the detail, including the battle of the fist, and they could have drawn these elements in if they would have planned it better. Apparently they are also worried about letting GOT take on the montra of a full fledged fantasy drama, this they don't emphasize the fantasy elements, and are more inclined to I corperate more personal dilemma. I think this is why it took them so long to incorporate the Reeds.
Interesting take. I'll agree that the actor playing Theon does a great job in pulling off a massively fallible yet ultimately fascinating character. For me he's just a little bit below Dinklage in that regard. I haven't read the books but I'm also looking forward to seeing what happens to Aria and the shapeshifting Morghullis (?) character.
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