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Old 04-07-2013, 06:50 PM   #26
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You know who else had more than 5 hurries this last season?

Chris Harris.
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:59 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by MagicHef View Post
You know who else had more than 5 hurries this last season?

Chris Harris.
Lol... During BDawks years here (09-11), he .5 sacks more than Ayers in that same period of time. 5 to 4.5 sacks.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:03 PM   #28
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Not to mention very overrated vs the run for no earned reason whatsoever
This part is easy to understand. The team drafted an edge rusher and he struggles to rush the passer, so some fans create the idea that he is a "beast" against the run to justify the pick and the player's value.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:19 PM   #29
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About Ayers' senior year:

Damontre Moore has had 17.5 and 21 TFL the last two seasons. 15 is not really impressive.

Also, 5 hurries is pitiful. Doom just had 39 this season, Miller had 57.
Didn't Moore lead the nation in TFL's?

As a prospect coming out of school, Ayers was better than the current crop available to the broncos. He's spent most of his years at either backer or backup d-end. He took a while to bloom with the Vols. Maybe he'll take a while to bloom here. Doom is gone and there's no getting him back, so all we can do is give him his shot and hope for the best. If he sucks then he's gone as a free agent next year.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:38 PM   #30
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Didn't Moore lead the nation in TFL's?

As a prospect coming out of school, Ayers was better than the current crop available to the broncos. He's spent most of his years at either backer or backup d-end. He took a while to bloom with the Vols. Maybe he'll take a while to bloom here. Doom is gone and there's no getting him back, so all we can do is give him his shot and hope for the best. If he sucks then he's gone as a free agent next year.
I don't know, but Okafor had 16.5, Datone Jones had 19, and Werner had 18.

If that 3 sack season is him blooming with the Vols, then I don't want him blooming here. I.don't really see how depending on him as a starter for the third time is "giving him his shot." Luckily, that's not all we can do. There are many other options, almost all of which would be far superior to Ayers.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:43 PM   #31
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About Ayers' senior year:

Damontre Moore has had 17.5 and 21 TFL the last two seasons. 15 is not really impressive.

Also, 5 hurries is pitiful. Doom just had 39 this season, Miller had 57.
Robert Ayers was a 23 year old Senior, and didn't even put up any numbers in college until he was older than everyone else. Damontre Moore dominated as a 19 and 20 year old.

I fully expect the Broncos Defense to drop out of the top 10 in scoring without Dumervil and Keith Brooking...unless the Broncos add some major talent in the draft.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:48 PM   #32
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I think this defense has a chance to improve in both those areas and I think they will. We might take a small dip in sacks, but I think the overall defense will be just as good if not improved.
Why would Elway try to re-sign Elvis (twice) if the D would be improved without him?

Do you really think that or are you trying to convince yourself losing Doom is ok?
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:40 AM   #33
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Robert Ayers was a 23 year old Senior, and didn't even put up any numbers in college until he was older than everyone else. Damontre Moore dominated as a 19 and 20 year old.

I fully expect the Broncos Defense to drop out of the top 10 in scoring without Dumervil and Keith Brooking...unless the Broncos add some major talent in the draft.
Brooking was old and weak against the run. I'm excited to see what Irving will be able to do this year.
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:43 AM   #34
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I will be surprised if he doesn't have a good season.
I'll be surprised if he is the full time starter. He cannot beat out Wolfe let alone sniff 10 sacks this year.
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:46 AM   #35
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Why would Elway try to re-sign Elvis (twice) if the D would be improved without him?

Do you really think that or are you trying to convince yourself losing Doom is ok?
The defense is better if his replacement plays up to his money value. Dumervil's play was at a net loss monetarily for the defense. This is especially important since Von's contract will require more money next offseason than they currently have...
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:48 AM   #36
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Walter Football has Denver selecting Tank Carradine at #28.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2013_1.php

I approve of this

Strengths:
Natural pass-rusher
Good hand usage
Pure speed around the corner
Productive pass-rusher
Repertoire of moves
Shedding blocks
Disruptive
Can sink his hips/shoulder
Excellent motor
Good closing speed
Upside
Scheme versatility

Summary: After Florida State standout defensive end Brandon Jenkins went out for the season with a foot injury in early September, many Seminole fans felt their National Championship hopes were dashed. While Florida State didn't compete for the title, it wasn't because Jenkins went out of the lineup. Senior backup defensive end Cornelius "Tank" Carradine took over and broke out as one of the top pass-rushers in the nation.

Carradine quickly showed his speed rush ability around the corner. He had six sacks in the month of September, as he took advantage of teams sending double teams to Bjoern Werner. Throughout the season, Carradine stayed consistent with his pass rush and totaled 80 tackles, 13 tackles for a loss, 11 sacks and a forced fumble.

The season ended terribly for Carradine, unfortunately. He was dominated by Florida left tackle Xavier Nixon as the Gators had a ton of success running straight at him. It looked like Carradine was on roller skates the way Nixon was pushing him around the field. Then, late in the game, Carradine blew out an ACL, so he wasn't able to participate in the Senior Bowl or the NFL Scouting Combine.

There have been a lot of positive reports about Carradine's rehab, stating that he is far ahead of schedule. He has a workout scheduled April 20 to show teams how far along he is.

Carradine is much bigger than Jenkins, while being faster and more explosive than Werner. Considering he could have the best overall skill set among the three ends, it makes one wonder why he was unable to win a starting spot heading into his senior season. Neither Werner nor Jenkins had a double-digit sack season in 2011, so it isn't like they were coming off huge campaigns. In speaking with some scouts, they don't sound overly concerned about that, but they do find it a little bit peculiar.

Entering the NFL, Carradine has a superb skill set to be an impact pass-rusher. He is very fast off the edge with a nice repertoire of moves. He has good hands to shed blocks and uses his explosiveness to crash into the pocket. He could rush from left end, right end or standup as a 3-4 outside linebacker. He has a rare combination of size and strength.


As mentioned, Carradine needs work as a run-defender. He gets too high in his pad level, and quality offensive linemen are able to move him around. Carradine does better when he tries to get upfield and bust into the backfield. When he tries to hold his ground at the point of attack, he can get ridden around the field. He definitely needs to improve his run defense and ability to be stout when runs come straight at him.

Early in his career, Carradine may best used as a rotational player who mainly plays in passing situations. That would allow him time to improve his run defense while getting acclimated to NFL offensive tackles.

Carradine has a great set of physical tools to develop into an impact pass rusher in the NFL. If it weren't for the knee injury, he would be a solid first-round pick. He still could go in Round 1, but he's a borderline first-day prospect. If he falls to Round 2, however, he shouldn't last long.

Last edited by Bacchus; 04-08-2013 at 04:53 AM..
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:57 AM   #37
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Walter Football also has Denver selecting john Jenkins in the second round. I would really be happy with both of these picks!!

Denver Broncos: John Jenkins, NT, Georgia
The Broncos signed Terrance Knighton, but that doesn't mean they won't add another interior lineman. Jack Del Rio loves having multiple massive defensive tackles. Think back to his days in Jacksonville with Marcus Stroud and John Henderson.


John Jenkins, 6-3/359

Defensive Tackle

Georgia

Strengths:

Overwhelming size and strength
Can't be moved off line of scrimmage
Tremendous run-defender
Surprising explosiveness
Extremely rare athlete
Good quickness
Quick feet
Good get off
Can collapse the pocket as a pass-rusher
Fabulous bull rush
Huge bulk
Constantly fills his gap
Very agile
Requires multiple blockers
Perfect fit as a zero-technique in a 3-4
Ready to play immediately in the NFL
Incredibly hard to move at line of scrimmage
Scheme versatility


Summary: For 3-4 defenses needing a nose tackle, Jenkins is a perfect fit to man the middle of their defense. Georgia employed a 3-4 defense, and he was a key cog for the Bulldogs. Jenkins was a heavy load at the point of attack who stuffed the run and contributed to the pass rush. Georgia outside linebacker Jarvis Jones was a phenomenal pass-rusher, and he was aided by the disruption that Jenkins caused on the inside.

Jenkins started out his career in the junior college ranks before earning a starting spot with Georgia as a junior in 2011. He totaled 28 stops, six tackles for a loss and three sacks in his debut season. Jenkins improved as a senior to record 50 tackles, two tackles for a loss and a sack. He stood out with good games against Missouri, South Carolina, Florida and Auburn. Jenkins played well in the SEC Championship and beat Alabama guard Chance Warmack for a sack.

Jenkins had a phenomenal week of practice at the Senior Bowl. He wasn't known as a pass-rusher for Georgia, but he showed nice pass-rushing potential in Mobile as he dominated the one-on-one sessions. The guards and centers were virtually incapable of keeping him out of the backfield. The massive tackle was destroying linemen with his bull rushes.

Jenkins also displayed surprising explosion. He has a good get-off and fires into blockers to often gain leverage. There were plays when Jenkins drove linemen straight back before shoving them to the ground. He was excellent all week.


There was some debate about Jenkins being a first-round pick entering the Senior Bowl, but he showed that he is worthy of a first-round pick in Mobile. It wouldn't be surprising if Jenkins stands out at the NFL Scouting Combine in the 40 and the bench press. If that happens, he could enjoy a rise into the top half of the first round like Dontari Poe did in the 2012 NFL Draft.

There is a premium on defensive tackles with Jenkins' size and speed. They are hard to find and can rise up draft boards as teams get deeper into the process.

Jenkins looks like a reasonably safe pick for the NFL. His size and speed mean he is at least going to be a good run-defender. Jenkins' also should be able to eat up blockers to free up teammates - at the bare minimum. Jenkins probably won't ever compile big statistical totals, but he could be a difference-maker at the point of attack for a good defense.
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Old 04-08-2013, 05:01 AM   #38
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MY GOD!!! Walter Football has Denver taking RB Montee Ball in the 3rd round. This could be the greatest draft in Brooncos' history!!

Denver Broncos: Montee Ball, RB, Wisconsin
John Fox is not shy about using early selections on running backs. He needs one. Willis McGahee is old, Knowshon Moreno can't be trusted, and Ronnie Hillman's just a chance-of-pace back.

Montee Ball, 5-11/214

Running Back

Wisconsin
Strengths: Excellent vision
Good balance
Body lean
Patient runner
Intelligence
Finishes runs well
Can pick up some yards after contact
Good feet
Nice cutting ability
Ready to contribute in the NFL
Strong ball security
Decisive runner
Stamina
Experienced



Summary: Ball's career at Wisconsin has him as one of the most productive running backs in the history of college football. He was a touchdown machine for the Badgers as churned his way into the end zone at a record pace. The team fielded a powerful offensive line and Ball ran behind them to make history.

While splitting carries with John Clay and James White, Ball came on like gangbusters late in the 2010 season for the Badgers with five straight 100-yard games with a total of 777 yards in those five contests. He was third on the team in rushing with 996 yards, but Ball led the Badgers with 18 touchdowns.

That was nothing compared to what he did in 2011 when Ball was a finalist for the Heisman Trophy. He ran for 1,923 yards, averaging 6.3 yards per carry and 33 touchdowns rushing. Ball also caught 24 passes for 306 yards and six scores. His 39 total touchdowns were one of the most prolific season totals in college football history, putting him next to Barry Sanders in the record books.

Heading into his senior season, Wisconsin lost a ton of good talent in the form of center Peter Konz, guard Kevin Zeitler, its offensive line coach, its offensive coordinator, quarterback Russell Wilson and wide receiver Nick Toon. As a result, Ball started out slowly before heating up in conference play. He averaged 5.2 yards per carry on his way to 1,830 yards and 22 touchdowns in 2012.

Ball had huge games against Purdue, Minnesota, Indiana and Nebraska. He had a costly fumble against Ohio State on the goal line in the fourth quarter. Ball also had a fumble late in the fourth quarter to end Wisconsin's hopes of tying Nebraska.

One drawback to all that production is Ball took a lot of hits in college and enters the NFL with a significant amount of wear-and-tear. Ball is a tough runner but doesn't physically run over tacklers. However, he is very smart and decisive. Ball runs with excellent vision, balance and pad level.

The most critical issue with Ball is if he has enough speed to be effective in the NFL. Ball is not a burner, but he hit the hole before it closed in college. A big question is if Ball has enough burst to do that in the NFL. He is not a threat to score on every carry as there are plenty of defensive players who are faster than him. Ball had a very slow Combine 40 time of 4.66 seconds, so the speed concerns are legitimate

Ball would be best at the next level as a rotational back who is part of a stable. He probably won't be three-down starter in the NFL. In the proper role, Ball could be a contributor. He should be a third-day pick in this writer's opinion, but it sounds like he will go as high as the second round.
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Old 04-08-2013, 01:15 PM   #39
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Quote:
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Why would Elway try to re-sign Elvis (twice) if the D would be improved without him?

Do you really think that or are you trying to convince yourself losing Doom is ok?
I'm not saying Doom wasn't a good player. I think the defense can improve due to several factors.

* JDR being here 2 consecutive years
* DRC I think is an upgrade over Porter, and we can move Harris back to Nickel
* I like our starting DT's
* I think Wolfe improves and that will help
* I think Miller is a once in a generation player and he'll be fabulous again.

Elway tried to sign Doom. You can call it twice if you want, that's just circumstance. Elway liked Doom at 6M but agreed to 8M. He obviously felt Doom could help the team but didn't feel he was so important that he could not lose him no matter what. So there you have it.
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:26 PM   #40
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I wonder if Elway will take a chance on Damontre Moore at 28.

Montee Ball would be a nice pickup in the 3rd. From what I've seen of him he's a real good between the tackles guy, a chain mover. He may have a lot of miles on the tires, but he's good for a few years. Why didn't he declare for the draft last year?
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:40 PM   #41
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Check out this guy, he tore up the senior bowl and beat up on some top prospects. Has looked pretty awesome in pre-draft workouts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVJYQ99Ufe4
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Old 04-08-2013, 11:32 PM   #42
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I wonder if Elway will take a chance on Damontre Moore at 28.

Montee Ball would be a nice pickup in the 3rd. From what I've seen of him he's a real good between the tackles guy, a chain mover. He may have a lot of miles on the tires, but he's good for a few years. Why didn't he declare for the draft last year?
Montee Ball reminds me of Emmett Smith a little bit. For a 3rd round pick he would be the instant starter or at least him and McGahee would share time with Ball getting more carries by the end of the year. He would have tremendous value in the 3rd round.
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:51 AM   #43
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Putting our eggs all in Ayer's basket would just be stupid at this point in time.

Obviously we are in win now mode.

Surely anyone with eyes can see the guy is a second tier player at best.
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:13 AM   #44
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Putting our eggs all in Ayer's basket would just be stupid at this point in time.

Obviously we are in win now mode.

Surely anyone with eyes can see the guy is a second tier player at best.
I would think everyone would see that. That and his 6 career sacks should convince everyone.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:18 AM   #45
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Robert Ayers was a 23 year old Senior, and didn't even put up any numbers in college until he was older than everyone else. Damontre Moore dominated as a 19 and 20 year old.
Perfect contrast, Robert Ayers and Damontre Moore.

It's the BroncoBuff Axiom: You're either 'Born to Sack' or you aren't, and Ayers aren't. Even in a contract year, I think he'll have his hands full just keeping his job. Malik Jackson took his place in college, might do the same this season ... he didn't get to play much in 2012, but they're still high on Jackson.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:50 AM   #46
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Perfect contrast, Robert Ayers and Damontre Moore.

It's the BroncoBuff Axiom: You're either 'Born to Sack' or you aren't, and Ayers aren't. Even in a contract year, I think he'll have his hands full just keeping his job. Malik Jackson took his place in college, might do the same this season ... he didn't get to play much in 2012, but they're still high on Jackson.
Chris Clemons had one sack his junior year at UGA in 2002. He sat out his rookie year in 2003 with a knee injury. For his career he had seasons of 3, 2, 8, 4, and 3. Then in 2010 at the age of 29 he joined the Seahawks. He has recorded 11 sacks in three straight years. This idea that you are born to sack is overblown.
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:34 AM   #47
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Robert Ayers was a 23 year old Senior, and didn't even put up any numbers in college until he was older than everyone else. Damontre Moore dominated as a 19 and 20 year old.
THIS! They did a study in Canada, and found that grade school hockey players who were older than others in their same school grade, were overwhelmingly more likely to excel on the ice, to be named captain, to progress to the professional ranks. Even just 4 months made a big difference. The distinction is greater when you're 11-14 than 19-23, but the principle remains.

Corollary is when college players for whatever reason move up to stronger competition while in college. Draft evaluations are so much about whether a guy can lift his game to the next level (Jim Goodman is the expert), that guys who raise their games while in school impress me most. JUCO guys of course, but also QBs Russell Wilson and Geno Smith. Both moved up to more competitive conferences their senior years (Wilson ACC to Big 10, Smith Big East to Big XII), and both put up far better numbers in the new conference.
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Old 04-10-2013, 10:42 AM   #48
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Mock that has Moore falling to us.

http://www.drafttek.com/2013-NFL-Mock-Draft-Round1.asp

Seems pretty unlikely to me, but I'd be pretty stoked with Damonte at 28.
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:01 AM   #49
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Mock that has Moore falling to us.

http://www.drafttek.com/2013-NFL-Mock-Draft-Round1.asp

Seems pretty unlikely to me, but I'd be pretty stoked with Damonte at 28.
that would make von miller happy

Look at this blurb from nfl.com


Weaknesses
Hand usage should improve with time, will allow better tackles to get their punch inside at times to knock him back a bit. Can play high, failing to anchor and getting knocked aside or to the ground by stronger linemen, especially when moving laterally. Still learning to use his flexibility to turn the corner consistently, and needs to use his spin move (and keep his balance during it) to prevent getting taken outside the pocket too often. More of a coordinated and fluid athlete than a downright explosive one. Doesn’t like to hold his ground and set the edge on runs at him, preferring to run himself upfield or dance around the block. A lot of his production and success came from slanting inside, is he a consistent edge threat? Lacks athletic upside.
NFL Comparison
Robert Ayers


http://www.drafttek.com/2013-NFL-Mock-Draft-Round1b.asp

Last edited by Bacchus; 04-10-2013 at 11:05 AM..
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:15 AM   #50
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Mock that has Moore falling to us.

http://www.drafttek.com/2013-NFL-Mock-Draft-Round1.asp

Seems pretty unlikely to me, but I'd be pretty stoked with Damonte at 28.
I doubt the Broncos take Moore even if he's sitting there at 28. I notice Arthur Brown is taken by the Ravens at #32. If the Broncos have the choice between Brown and Moore I think they'd take Brown first, just a guess on my part.
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