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Old 04-06-2013, 06:52 PM   #176
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Thats what sucks the most. As a nation we have done well reducing violence but media makes it out like its worst then ever and its time to finally act.
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:54 PM   #177
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infringed how ? Can't protect yourself with that handgun ?

why don't you get a rocket launcher and carry that around...............good grief
Again it's called the Bill of Rights...not the Bill of Needs

and while I can protect myself from clown like yourself with my bare hands, my M-14 makes it a better fight should the SturmAbteilung come for me.

BTW, my guns have killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car has....which means a rocket launcher is just as safe in my hands....why is that you may ask? Because I'm not some nut job/thug who doesn't value life and a law abiding citizen.
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:56 PM   #178
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Sometimes there is no getting away from the idiot.........

I was taught to fight as a last resort........doesn't always work that way but I try.

...and I've taught my daughters to shoot, because a restraining order is just a ****ing piece of paper, and criminals don't care to follow laws.
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:59 PM   #179
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Your losing and it just might save some lives ................

How does it feel to be on the losing side again and again with so called conservative values that a majority of America has said again and again we don't want that............??

You all have a great rest of your weekend................
funny but the majority of America once said that a black man could be bought and sold on a whim and was only 3/5th's of human being......just because they're the majority doesn't make them right

Last edited by errand; 04-06-2013 at 07:03 PM..
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:01 PM   #180
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there have been 27 mass shootings since the ban ended.....meanwhile, from 1985-1994, there were 173 mass shootings and from 1995-2004 there were 182 mass shootings.

so to summarize,

before the ban there were 173 mass shootings

during the ban there were 182 mass shootings

after the ban there have been 27 mass shootings

you're the one legged man who for some stupid reason always decides he wants to enter ass kicking contests.
Your facts are wrong........can't have your oown facts.

173 and 182............please....about 10% of that is where it actually was.

Where did this info come from ?

Not what I have seen over and over. 32 is actually correct and when you are talking about women and children specifically........
how many more would be ok with you ?

35, 40 ?

Ass kicking contest....really then why I am winning in Co and Connecticut and polls show a nationwide overwhelming support for most gun control measures ?

If I am wrong then all those peole must be as well and your small minority is right ?

Last edited by Jetmeck; 04-06-2013 at 07:05 PM..
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:04 PM   #181
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Thats what sucks the most. As a nation we have done well reducing violence but media makes it out like its worst then ever and its time to finally act.

Maybe but his facts are way off.............173 or 182 mass shootings.............no way....try about 10% or less of that.

Whether the number of mass shootings has gone up or down may be debatable but when women and children start getting targeted one would think people would try to see the other side.
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:08 PM   #182
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Not what I have seen over and over. 32 is actually correct and when you are talking about women and children specifically........
how many more would be ok with you ?

35, 40 ?
None are acceptable...but that's in a perfect world. We don't live in a perfect world now do we?

as for your claim that there have been 32...Ok, even if I give you that, how does that compare to the 183 that happened DURING the ban?

bottom line is in the decades prior to and after ban there have been approximately 200 mass shootings depending on which figures we use (yours or mine) compared to 183 during the ban.

So do the math there genius....200 mass shootings in 20 years = 10 per year, where 183 in 10 years of ban = over 18 per year.

So yeah, you're getting your ass kicked.....
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:08 PM   #183
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funny but the majority of America once said that a black man could be bought and sold on a whim and was only 3/5th's of human being......just because they're the majority doesn't make them right

Yep and they corrected their mistake as we are about to do with some common sense non second amendment resticting gun laws that most logical reasonable even gun owners agree with.

Two states and counting, think a third is about to do something.
Its happening and your losing.........

How maddening does this make you ?
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:10 PM   #184
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None are acceptable...but that's in a perfect world. We don't live in a perfect world now do we?

as for your claim that there have been 32...Ok, even if I give you that, how does that compare to the 183 that happened DURING the ban?

bottom line is in the decades prior to and after ban there have been approximately 200 mass shootings depending on which figures we use (yours or mine) compared to 183 during the ban.

So do the math there genius....200 mass shootings in 20 years = 10 per year, where 183 in 10 years of ban = over 18 per year.

So yeah, you're getting your ass kicked.....


Whatever there were not 183 or 172 period...........your lying

Last edited by Jetmeck; 04-06-2013 at 07:12 PM..
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:18 PM   #185
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READ THE SECOND AMENDMENT.............

PROB OLDER THAN YOU...........college degree.
Experience in America prior to the U.S. Constitution


Ideals that helped to inspire the Second Amendment in part are symbolized by the minutemen.[34]
Early English settlers in America viewed the right to arms and/or the right to bear arms and/or state militias as important for one or more of these purposes (in no particular order):[35][36][37][38][39][40][41][42]

enabling the people to organize a militia system.
participating in law enforcement;
deterring tyrannical government;[43]
repelling invasion;
suppressing insurrection, allegedly including slave revolts;[44][45][46]
facilitating a natural right of self-defense;
Which of these considerations were thought of as most important and ultimately found expression in the Second Amendment is disputed. Some of these purposes were explicitly mentioned in early state constitutions; for example, the Pennsylvania Constitution of 1776 asserted that, "the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the state".[47]

During the 1760s pre-revolutionary period, the established colonial militia was composed of colonists, including many who were loyal to British imperial rule. As defiance and opposition to British rule developed, a distrust of these Loyalists in the militia became widespread among the colonists, known as Patriots, who favored independence from British rule. As a result, these Patriots established independent colonial legislatures to create their own militias that excluded the Loyalists and then sought to stock independent armories for their militias. In response to this arms build up, the British Parliament established an embargo on firearms, parts and ammunition on the American colonies.[48]

British and Loyalist efforts to disarm the colonial Patriot militia armories in the early phases of the American Revolution resulted in the Patriot colonists protesting by citing the Declaration of Rights, Blackstone's summary of the Declaration of Rights, their own militia laws and common law rights to self-defense.[49] While British policy in the early phases of the Revolution clearly aimed to prevent coordinated action by the Patriot militia, some have argued that there is no evidence that the British sought to restrict the traditional common law right of self-defense.[49] Patrick J. Charles disputes these claims citing similar disarming by the patriots and challenging those scholars' interpretation of Blackstone.[50]

The right of the colonists to arms and rebellion against oppression was asserted, for example, in a pre-revolutionary newspaper editorial in 1769 Boston objecting to the British army suppression of colonial opposition to the Townshend Acts:

Instances of the licentious and outrageous behavior of the military conservators of the peace still multiply upon us, some of which are of such nature, and have been carried to such lengths, as must serve fully to evince that a late vote of this town, calling upon its inhabitants to provide themselves with arms for their defense, was a measure as prudent as it was legal: such violences are always to be apprehended from military troops, when quartered in the body of a populous city; but more especially so, when they are led to believe that they are become necessary to awe a spirit of rebellion, injuriously said to be existing therein. It is a natural right which the people have reserved to themselves, confirmed by the Bill of Rights, to keep arms for their own defence; and as Mr. Blackstone observes, it is to be made use of when the sanctions of society and law are found insufficient to restrain the violence of oppression.[49]
The armed forces that won the American Revolution consisted of the standing Continental Army created by the Continental Congress, together with various state and regional militia units. In opposition, the British forces consisted of a mixture of the standing British Army, Loyalist Militia and Hessian mercenaries. Following the Revolution, the United States was governed by the Articles of Confederation. Federalists argued that this government had an unworkable division of power between Congress and the states, which caused military weakness, as the standing army was reduced to as few as 80 men.[51] They considered it to be bad that there was no effective federal military crackdown to an armed tax rebellion in western Massachusetts known as Shays' Rebellion.[52] Anti-federalists on the other hand took the side of limited government and sympathized with the rebels, many of whom were former Revolutionary War soldiers. Subsequently, the Philadelphia Convention proposed in 1787 to grant Congress exclusive power to raise and support a standing army and navy of unlimited size.[53][54] Anti-federalists objected to the shift of power from the states to the federal government, but as adoption of the Constitution became more and more likely, they shifted their strategy to establishing a bill of rights that would put some limits on federal power.[55]

Modern scholars Thomas B. McAffee and Michael J. Quinlan have stated that James Madison "did not invent the right to keep and bear arms when he drafted the Second Amendment; the right was pre-existing at both common law and in the early state constitutions."[56] In contrast, historian Jack Rakove suggests that Madison's intention in framing the Second Amendment was to provide assurances to moderate Anti-Federalists that the militias would not be disarmed.[57]

One aspect of the gun control debate is the conflict between gun control laws and the right to rebel against unjust governments. Blackstone in his Commentaries alluded to this right to rebel as the natural right of resistance and self preservation, to be used only as a last resort, exercisable when "the sanctions of society and laws are found insufficient to restrain the violence of oppression".[58] Some believe that the framers of the Bill of Rights sought to balance not just political power, but also military power, between the people, the states and the nation,[59] as Alexander Hamilton explained in 1788:

[I]f circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude[,] that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens.[59][60]
Some scholars have said that it is wrong to read a right of armed insurrection in the Second Amendment because clearly the founding fathers sought to place trust in the power of the ordered liberty of democratic government versus the anarchy of insurrectionists.[61][62] Other scholars, such as Glenn Reynolds, contend that the framers did believe in an individual right to armed insurrection. The latter scholars cite examples, such as the Declaration of Independence (describing in 1776 "the Right of the People to...institute new Government") and the Constitution of New Hampshire (stating in 1784 that "nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind").[63]

There was an ongoing debate in the 1780s about "the people" fighting governmental tyranny (as described by Anti-Federalists); or the risk of mob rule of "the people" (as described by the Federalists) related to the ongoing revolution in France.[64] A widespread fear, during the debates on ratifying the Constitution, was the possibility of a military takeover of the states by the federal government, which could happen if the Congress passed laws prohibiting states from arming citizens,[65] or prohibiting citizens from arming themselves.[49] Though it has been argued that the states lost the power to arm their citizens when the power to arm the militia was transferred from the states to the federal government by Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution, the individual right to arm was retained and strengthened by the Militia Acts of 1792 and the similar act of 1795.[66][67]
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:28 PM   #186
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Sometimes there is no getting away from the idiot.........
I understand, I'm reminded every time I log onto here and see you've posted in here....
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:39 PM   #187
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Whatever there were not 183 or 172 period...........your lying

Crime stats compiled by a Northeastern University professor, the Census Bureau and the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel show the number of mass shootings since the 1980s has fluctuated annually, but without any major upward or downward trend.


From 1985-1994, there were 173 mass shootings and 766 victims. From 1995-2004 (starting with 1995 because it was the first full year the law was in effect), there were 182 mass shootings and 830 victims.

I'm guessing that 2+2=4 is only correct if you hear it from MSNBC and that shag-gagging hag Rachel Maddow.......

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Old 04-06-2013, 07:46 PM   #188
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Sometimes there is no getting away from the idiot.........

I was taught to fight as a last resort........doesn't always work that way but I try.
Who taught you how to type?
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:52 PM   #189
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Who taught you how to type?
Jetmeck stops sentences period.
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:27 PM   #190
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Because those pushing the take away are the same persons planning to enslave you for your own good because they know what is good for you better than you do and they do not want you having the fire power when they make their move.
Planning to enslave you? For real? I can understand those who think they should have AR-15's based on how they perceive the 2nd amendment, that's fine. But you delusional paranoid folks who think the liberal agenda is to enslave the American people is down right idiotic.

You want to know about enslaving, the fastest and most simple way is to continue on this wealth gap. The richest 1% gaining control over the nation, it's laws, it's political views, etc.

WE THE PEOPLE....means all the people, poor, middle class and the rich. Once you get to the point where that 1% control everything, that'w when you will see the true enslaving going on. It's already happening dude. American middle class and poor class workers work harder, are paid less, have less benefits every year it seems. The rich don't take pay cuts. The government gives them bail outs at the cost of every hard working man and woman. The rich have tax loop holes to exploit while the poor don't.

If there were ever to be another revolution in these United State, it would not be the people fighting against a liberal agenda. It would be due to the rich becoming so wealthy on the blood and sweat of the poor (sound familiar) and the middle class disappearing while the poor class would become so large, they could not bare it any longer. They would revolt.

You guys are so worried about a few damn guns you can't see what's right in front of you face. You can clearly see how other countries with dictators are governed. It's human nature. They take everything and leave the rest with beans and expect you to be happy about it. They make laws that benefit only them.

Honestly, it's not about the size of government. You guys get so distracted on that. It's about making sure the middle class and the poor have a voice and a representative. When those are gone, and the very richest control everything, all hell breaks lose.

Look at countries ruled by dictators. That's as small as a government as you will find. 1 leader, a few side kicks and military to carry out their every wish. We'll see how long you have your guns when that happens. We'll see how you get to keep anything worth value.

And this is not about Republican or Democrats. Once the richest gain full control, there won't even be parties. It will be a Totalitarianism government. There won't be voting. Just the mega wealthy, controlling it all. Make no mistake, to be wealthy is no crime at all. But when they influence politics to which the likes of what we see now, with the wealth gap the largest it's ever been, and showing NO signs of slowing down, that's when it starts to look really grim for everybody else. It won't matter if they are Democrats are Republican. The wealthy want more wealth and to increase the wealth gap. We already saw how fast the richest can crush the rest of us. The Wallstreet greed a few years back just about did us in.

You should be less concerned about a few guns and way more concerned about the wealthiest trying to control out political system, buy elections, influence laws that only benefit them.
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:41 PM   #191
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:15 PM   #192
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Planning to enslave you? For real? I can understand those who think they should have AR-15's based on how they perceive the 2nd amendment, that's fine. But you delusional paranoid folks who think the liberal agenda is to enslave the American people is down right idiotic.

You want to know about enslaving, the fastest and most simple way is to continue on this wealth gap. The richest 1% gaining control over the nation, it's laws, it's political views, etc.

WE THE PEOPLE....means all the people, poor, middle class and the rich. Once you get to the point where that 1% control everything, that'w when you will see the true enslaving going on. It's already happening dude. American middle class and poor class workers work harder, are paid less, have less benefits every year it seems. The rich don't take pay cuts. The government gives them bail outs at the cost of every hard working man and woman. The rich have tax loop holes to exploit while the poor don't.

If there were ever to be another revolution in these United State, it would not be the people fighting against a liberal agenda. It would be due to the rich becoming so wealthy on the blood and sweat of the poor (sound familiar) and the middle class disappearing while the poor class would become so large, they could not bare it any longer. They would revolt.

You guys are so worried about a few damn guns you can't see what's right in front of you face. You can clearly see how other countries with dictators are governed. It's human nature. They take everything and leave the rest with beans and expect you to be happy about it. They make laws that benefit only them.

Honestly, it's not about the size of government. You guys get so distracted on that. It's about making sure the middle class and the poor have a voice and a representative. When those are gone, and the very richest control everything, all hell breaks lose.

Look at countries ruled by dictators. That's as small as a government as you will find. 1 leader, a few side kicks and military to carry out their every wish. We'll see how long you have your guns when that happens. We'll see how you get to keep anything worth value.

And this is not about Republican or Democrats. Once the richest gain full control, there won't even be parties. It will be a Totalitarianism government. There won't be voting. Just the mega wealthy, controlling it all. Make no mistake, to be wealthy is no crime at all. But when they influence politics to which the likes of what we see now, with the wealth gap the largest it's ever been, and showing NO signs of slowing down, that's when it starts to look really grim for everybody else. It won't matter if they are Democrats are Republican. The wealthy want more wealth and to increase the wealth gap. We already saw how fast the richest can crush the rest of us. The Wallstreet greed a few years back just about did us in.

You should be less concerned about a few guns and way more concerned about the wealthiest trying to control out political system, buy elections, influence laws that only benefit them.
This is what you fail to grasp Zona. It's all parts of the same agenda.

If you take peoples money and thus their accustomed quality of life do you think they want to leave those angry millions armed.
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Old 04-07-2013, 12:12 AM   #193
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Gotta love the libs in here who amazingly wouldn't pick up a gun to save this nation if it were under attack, but have no problem if our own government wants to enslave us.....or wipe out those who refuse to go down quietly.
You just went full retard with this post.
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Old 04-07-2013, 12:21 AM   #194
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READ THE SECOND AMENDMENT.............

PROB OLDER THAN YOU...........college degree.
And still living in the US. Not like the guy who has everyone's back from the back. I actually have more respect from the foreigners in the US arguing for or against an issue than the guy who left he country and still claims the right to speak as an American. Albeit a cowardly one.

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Old 04-07-2013, 12:32 AM   #195
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Again it's called the Bill of Rights...not the Bill of Needs

and while I can protect myself from clown like yourself with my bare hands, my M-14 makes it a better fight should the SturmAbteilung come for me.

BTW, my guns have killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car has....which means a rocket launcher is just as safe in my hands....why is that you may ask? Because I'm not some nut job/thug who doesn't value life and a law abiding citizen.
Nope I take it back, this is where you went full retard. Didn't think you could top yourself when it came to senseless analogies but you are to be congratulated. You have taken every thing you learned from whatever education you got and have managed to mis apply it.

You keep insisting that infringement of rights and the 2nd amendment are based on your own personal definition of what it should be, but you don't realize that fact. I think you got to too much sand kicked in your face by the school bully when you were a little boy.
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Old 04-07-2013, 12:32 AM   #196
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JetMeck and Errand are like both sides village idiots front and center throwing haymakers.

We all find it funny and enjoy watching but behind that smile and laughter lies shame, guilt, and embarrassment.
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Old 04-07-2013, 12:49 AM   #197
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And still living in the US. Not like the guy who has everyone's back from the back. I actually have more respect from the foreigners in the US arguing for or against an issue than the guy who left he country and still claims the right to speak as an American. Albeit a cowardly one.
Love how guys like you afraid to leave your mother's protection talking tough about world travelers. awful brave behind your computer screen and too stupid to understand traveling takes courage. You think you are entitled to something special because you happen to pop out in the USA. That was none of your doing and makes you no different than any other human being. Your words betray your ignorance. I pity you that ignorance and mind you not.
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Old 04-07-2013, 01:23 AM   #198
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The constitution allows Congress to raise and support an army for no longer than two years, according to section 8. As opposed to the language of the next line which is to provide and maintain an provide for a navy.
The Continental Congress established the Continental Army in 1775 to fight the revolution. The Legion of the Unites States was established in 1792- 1796 to fight the Native Americans, which means it was established and renewed once.
The Congress re-raised the army for the war of 1812 and Mexican-American War from 1846-1848.
Once again for the Civil War Congress called up the state militias to form an army.
It was not until the late 19th / early 20th century that the current standing army was formed.
Taken from section 8 (Powers of Congress) of the United States Constitution.
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress.


So you see, back in the day, there was no standing full time military force. A well regulated militia was necessary for the defense of the United State. There is a full time standing military today. The military IS the well regulated militia. The militia is no longer the "people".


A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The right to bear arms was because the "people" were the militia, the military. The full time standing military today is the well regulated militia. They keep and bare arms. The people should not keep and bare arms, they are not the militia anymore and it's not necessary for the security of the sate. The military is what's necessary for the security of the state. There's no way you could manage and regulate everybody now who has a gun. For god sake we don't even do back ground checks on half the people who buy guns. That's NOT WELL REGULATED.



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Old 04-07-2013, 01:27 AM   #199
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Love how guys like you afraid to leave your mother's protection talking tough about world travelers. awful brave behind your computer screen and too stupid to understand traveling takes courage. You think you are entitled to something special because you happen to pop out in the USA. That was none of your doing and makes you no different than any other human being. Your words betray your ignorance. I pity you that ignorance and mind you not.
Tough talk from behind the screen your self. You left I am here, and I've traveled plenty. Not sure why you think traveling gives you some special place, privilege or opinion of the world.
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Old 04-07-2013, 01:34 AM   #200
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Originally Posted by ghwk View Post
Tough talk from behind the screen your self. You left I am here, and I've traveled plenty. Not sure why you think traveling gives you some special place, privilege or opinion of the world.
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