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Old 03-28-2013, 07:03 PM   #1
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Default White House : Don't Legalize Pot

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Marijuana use is harmful and should be discouraged

Marijuana use is associated with dependence, respiratory and mental illness, poor motor performance, and impaired cognitive and immune system functioning, among other negative effects.

Marijuana intoxication can cause distorted perceptions, difficulty in thinking and problem solving, and problems with learning and memory.

Studies have shown an association between chronic marijuana use and increased rates of anxiety, depression, suicidal thoughts, and schizophrenia.
Other research has shown marijuana smoke to contain carcinogens and to be an irritant to the lungs. Marijuana smoke, in fact, contains 50‐70 percent more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than does tobacco smoke.

Legalization would lower price, thereby increasing use

A recent report from the RAND Corporation, “Altered State,” discusses how legalization would cause the price of marijuana to plummet, triggering increases in use of the drug.

Illegality helps keep prices higher. And because drug use is sensitive to price, especially among young people, higher prices help keep use rates relatively low.

Use of the legal substances alcohol and tobacco far outpaces the use of marijuana (figure 2), a strong indication that laws reduce the availability and acceptability of substances.

Our experience with even tightly regulated prescription drugs, such as Oxycontin, shows that legalizing drugs widens availability and misuse, even when controls are in place.

Tax revenue would be offset by higher social costs

The costs to society of alcohol and tobacco – substances that are legal and taxed – are much greater than the revenue they generate.

Federal excise taxes collected on alcohol in 2007 totaled around $9 billion; states collected around $5.5 billion. Combined, these amounts are less than 10 percent of the estimated $185 billion in alcohol‐related costs to health care, criminal justice, and the workplace in lost productivity.

Tobacco does not yield net revenue when taxed. Each year, Americans spend more than $200 billion on the social costs of smoking, but only about $25 billion is collected in taxes.

Legalization would further burden the criminal justice system

Legalizing marijuana would increase use of the drug and, consequently, the harm it causes, thus adding to the burden on the criminal justice system. Arrests for alcohol‐related crimes, such as violations of liquor laws, public drunkenness, and driving under the influence, totaled nearly 2.7 million in 2008. Marijuana‐possession arrests under current laws in 2008 totaled around 750,000.

Most people whose only crime is marijuana possession do not go to prison. A survey by the Bureau of Justice Statistics showed that 0.7% of all state inmates were behind bars for marijuana possession only (with many of them pleading down from more serious crimes). Other independent research has shown that the risk of arrest for each “joint,” or marijuana cigarette, smoked is about 1 arrest for every 12,000 joints.

Legalization would do little, if anything, to curb drug violence

Marijuana accounts for only a portion of the proceeds gained by criminal organizations that profit from drug distribution, human trafficking, and other crimes, so legalizing marijuana would not deter these groups from continuing to operate.

Under the most commonly proposed legalization regime – one that imposes high taxes on marijuana – violent drug cartels would simply undercut legal prices to keep their market share. With increased demand for marijuana resulting from legalization, these groups would likely grow stronger.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:27 PM   #2
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Disagree with a lot of their logic.

Fortunately, this is a social issue, and the cards are stacked against the government.

Eventually marijuana will be legalized. It's just a matter of how long. First will be medicinal, then state and local decriminalization followed by federal ambivalence, which we've already seen increasing.

Sooner or later, pot will be legal, regardless of who is in power.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:54 PM   #3
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Federal ambivalence is 100% Obama's doing, contradicting his own Council's recommendations. It's illegal at the federal level and Obama told the feds to stop enforcing it.

What was that about an oath of office?
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Old 03-28-2013, 10:03 PM   #4
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If we honestly looked at the effects of alcohol and had the character as a society to be intellectually consistent, we would outlaw that as well. And yet we accept alcohol, and all its societal damage, while pretending that drugs are different.
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Old 03-28-2013, 11:29 PM   #5
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If we honestly looked at the effects of alcohol and had the character as a society to be intellectually consistent, we would outlaw that as well. And yet we accept alcohol, and all its societal damage, while pretending that drugs are different.
Yup. In fact alcohol and tobacco are far more dangerous than cannabis. So when is the White House going to call for the return of alcohol prohibition and the outlawing of tobacco?
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:11 AM   #6
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Weed is better off illegal but make it only an infraction to possess and a misdemeanor to grow.

I say that only because I love weed and dont want the govt ****ing it up with taxes regulations and a bunch of BS.

Plus legalizing kills the value so it would actually hurt the economy. I heard colo plan was to tax it locally for sales tax, but then also add a 50 an ounce excise tax? That would keep price high but also still leave plenty of incentive to grow and sell outside the tax. So now you still need to enforce and you don't save the money you thought you were going to. Hell they start a tax they will probably put more resources into stopping home growers and growers skirting the tax.
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:13 AM   #7
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I can see it now weed can't be more then 15% thc.
Weed can't be sold in quantities more then a half ounce at a time
weed cant be sold or consumed where alcohol is
you cant smoke weed and drive in the same day
you cant smoke weed in public.
weed can't be grown here, or there, making it a game of only the big boys.
weed cant be grown in the same house people live

i can see it now.
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:20 AM   #8
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If we honestly looked at the effects of alcohol and had the character as a society to be intellectually consistent, we would outlaw that as well. And yet we accept alcohol, and all its societal damage, while pretending that drugs are different.
I think the main reason the feds stay away is because to get weed off all the international drug laws we have signed may not be so easy as just doing it unilaterally. Sure we could scrap them and say we do what we want but then we would lose a lot of deals we have with South American countries.

So to do it the USA would probably have to sit down with other countries and talk about the drug war. People in Colombia want to stop fighting it so hard also. They say why should we care most of the coke goes to the USA. Cheap cocaine and a new wave of coke being in is not what Obama or any president wants. So it may be more trouble then its worth.

Obviously the govt knows the estimates by groups like Normal of 100 billion a yr in taxes is a joke. More like 10 billion max.
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Old 03-29-2013, 03:26 AM   #9
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If we honestly looked at the effects of alcohol and had the character as a society to be intellectually consistent, we would outlaw that as well. And yet we accept alcohol, and all its societal damage, while pretending that drugs are different.
The same could be said about frozen food, fast food, and instant food yet parents pour it down their children's throats willingly.
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:00 AM   #10
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Alcohol doesn't demotivate you as much as weed. In college guys would drink at night on weekends but still be good students during the week. But the stoners seemed to get so into you miss class and slack off during the whole week. Then on top of it they usually drink some also.

Weed makes people lazier and I think our govt worries about that some. Other dangerous things like ciggs and alcohol don't as much.
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:52 AM   #11
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Based upon harm, pot should have been legalized long before alcohol and cigarettes.

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Old 03-31-2013, 08:50 AM   #12
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Alcohol doesn't demotivate you as much as weed. In college guys would drink at night on weekends but still be good students during the week. But the stoners seemed to get so into you miss class and slack off during the whole week. Then on top of it they usually drink some also.

Weed makes people lazier and I think our govt worries about that some. Other dangerous things like ciggs and alcohol don't as much.
The reason the U.S. gave up on outlawing alcohol was because the ban was unenforceable and the side effects (organized crime, a large part of the populace engaged in criminal acts, etc.) were more destructive than the good that came from the ban. It's the same thing with drugs. Unfortunately, it seems to be taking us a much longer time for our government to wake up to the truth.

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Old 03-31-2013, 09:32 AM   #13
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The reason the U.S. gave up on outlawing alcohol was because the ban was unenforceable and the side effects (organized crime, a large part of the populace engaged in criminal acts, etc.) were more destructive than the good the came from the ban. It's the same thing with drugs. Unfortunately, it seems to be taking us a much longer time for our government to wake up to the truth.
It's not in the best interests of the controllers of the America government, they are on top of the food chain of the illegal drug business, they will never give up all that money to fund their dark projects. Not to mention loose a great source of slave labor to their "for profit" prison system but mostly the will not like to loose one powerful tool that sustains the chaos and fear they must have to systematically and deftly lead us into slavery.

Last edited by baja; 03-31-2013 at 10:05 AM..
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Old 03-31-2013, 09:44 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
Alcohol doesn't demotivate you as much as weed. In college guys would drink at night on weekends but still be good students during the week. But the stoners seemed to get so into you miss class and slack off during the whole week. Then on top of it they usually drink some also.

Weed makes people lazier and I think our govt worries about that some. Other dangerous things like ciggs and alcohol don't as much.
In my college experience, those that drank a lot on weekends also smoked a lot of weed. They're not mutually exclusive. The guys who were stoners are no different than the guys who chose to drink every weeknight, instead of just recreational use on the weekends to relieve stress and let loose or whatever.
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Old 03-31-2013, 10:18 AM   #15
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In my college experience, those that drank a lot on weekends also smoked a lot of weed. They're not mutually exclusive. The guys who were stoners are no different than the guys who chose to drink every weeknight, instead of just recreational use on the weekends to relieve stress and let loose or whatever.
Usually College behavior does not carry forward once you leave school.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:49 AM   #16
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The reason the U.S. gave up on outlawing alcohol was because the ban was unenforceable and the side effects (organized crime, a large part of the populace engaged in criminal acts, etc.) were more destructive than the good that came from the ban. It's the same thing with drugs. Unfortunately, it seems to be taking us a much longer time for our government to wake up to the truth.
I don't really see a big problem like that now though do you? The crime then was spilling into the streets with brazen gunman. Sort of like Mexico now. Our justice system and police have gotten so good ours is kept much more out of the view of everyday ordinary Americans.

So we don't have to make weed illegal because of that. Also i could never agree with cocaine, heroin, meth, pcp, etc being legal. I don't care is it is impossible to completely enforce. Its hard to enforce rape also but that doesn't mean govt should figure that out and stop enforcing it.

You try your best to enforce laws that make us safer and are needed for the public good. You don't just make them based on what is easy to enforce.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:52 AM   #17
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In my college experience, those that drank a lot on weekends also smoked a lot of weed. They're not mutually exclusive. The guys who were stoners are no different than the guys who chose to drink every weeknight, instead of just recreational use on the weekends to relieve stress and let loose or whatever.
It's just my opinion stoners are lazier then drunks. Obviously any person who does any type of drug or alcohol everyday won't get much done.

Whatever though i agree that weed won't kill you and is a great way to relax. I just feel we are better off with decriminalization over legalization. Lets not ruin peoples lives, but also lets not encourage kids that weed is a great thing.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:57 AM   #18
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Also Inkana decriminalization of legalization is much easier and will cost us less money. If we try and make weed some revenue tax all it will do is make the black market grow bigger and become harder to police. I heard colo thinking about a 50 dollar an ounce tax? Thats all the incentive people need to keep the black market growing. So much for no enforcement.

Decriminalization keeps us in line with our treaties with other countries and is easier to accomplish.
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Old 03-31-2013, 02:25 PM   #19
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If it were up to me they would legalize it while still at least addressing the crime and drug dealing issue. You can smoke all you want, but once you commit a crime while high, or use profits from marijuana sale for the commission of a crime, you get an automatic mandatory 15 years or whatever the powers that be decide is fair. Kind of like the committing a crime with a firearm/deadly weapon or using a cellphone to commit a crime laws.
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:56 PM   #20
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If it were up to me they would legalize it while still at least addressing the crime and drug dealing issue. You can smoke all you want, but once you commit a crime while high, or use profits from marijuana sale for the commission of a crime, you get an automatic mandatory 15 years or whatever the powers that be decide is fair. Kind of like the committing a crime with a firearm/deadly weapon or using a cellphone to commit a crime laws.
lol
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:57 PM   #21
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So if you get stoned and steal a doughnut you get 15 yrs huh. Houghtam you crack me up sometimes. Happy Easter dude.
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:01 PM   #22
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Weed should just be decriminalized. Then what you do is use fines to control weed. If you get caught growing it 1000 dollar fine. Possession 100 dollar fine. Smoking it in public 250 dollar fine. That is how you make it a revenue generator.

Just stop putting people in prison for it. Obviously if you have a 100 grand a yr or more coming in and you don't pay taxes well we already have laws for that. You catch them and fine the **** out of them.

I just dont see how legalization would really work out that well.
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:52 AM   #23
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I don't really see a big problem like that now though do you? The crime then was spilling into the streets with brazen gunman.
As it is now. Just not in your neighborhood.

Quote:
Our justice system and police have gotten so good ours is kept much more out of the view of everyday ordinary Americans.

So we don't have to make weed illegal because of that.
Oh goodie. Since most middle-class and rich Americans are insulated from the violence created by the drug war we should just pretend there's no problem. Good thinking!

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I don't care is it is impossible to completely enforce. Its hard to enforce rape also but that doesn't mean govt should figure that out and stop enforcing it.
And you just won the Most Moronic Analogy of the Year award. Congratulations!

Quote:
You try your best to enforce laws that make us safer and are needed for the public good. You don't just make them based on what is easy to enforce.
Yes and busting some dude minding his own business smoking weed in his living room sure makes us all a lot safer!

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Old 04-01-2013, 02:07 PM   #24
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As it is now. Just not in your neighborhood.



Oh goodie. Since most middle-class and rich Americans are insulated from the violence created by the drug war we should just pretend there's no problem. Good thinking!



And you just won the Most Moronic Analogy of the Year award. Congratulations!



Yes and busting some dude minding his own business smoking weed in his living room sure makes us all a lot safer!


Why do you say that? It's not at all what I said. I said the best way to handle it is to decriminalize possession, use, and maybe even growing it yourself. But keep it an infraction you fine people for.

If you make it legal it opens up a can of works our govt has not time for right now.

i always tell people weed is on all our international narco treaties. We can't just unilaterally pull out of those unless we want colombia to maybe then say fine we don't need to enforce cocoa laws. Our govt has better things to worry about and flooding our markets with cheap drugs could have many repercussions you haven't thought of yet.

I don't however support people being busted for smoking weed. I smoke weed myself sometimes.
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Old 04-01-2013, 02:08 PM   #25
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Also Lone Bolt your point the war on drug is the root of violence is also a joke. Without drugs to make money on the inner city thugs would just do more crimes of property to make money.

If anything weed being legal would end a revenue stream for people and force them into even worst crimes.
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