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Old 03-29-2013, 06:52 PM   #101
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At Si.com Chris Burke has a board up with his thoughts on the the top 40 picks. And virtually EVERY one of the players I hear people saying would be good for us at 28, will be gone by then according to him.

The funny thing is he isn't listing by team, but by plain # he thinks in regard to talent. Teo and Minter at 35, 34. Of course if team needs aren't calculated the order is going to change. But if the real boards look anything like his virtually none of the players we think will be good BPAs will be available to us past pick 25, except Lacy, (RB) Elam (S), Minter and Teo. And they will go early 2nd.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl...t-big-board-4/
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:06 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Bmore Manning View Post
Our defense may be a 4-3, but it's a 3-4 in disguise. Our DTs Knighton, Vickerson, and include Wolfe, two gap. The RE is just a pass rusher with edge responsibility same with Miller.
The Broncos run a 4-3 Under...not a 3-4. IAOFM is wrong.

Even if you think they run a 3-4 (they don't), they only run with 5 man fronts 34% of the time. It's what happens the other 66% of the time (Nickel), that is the problem.


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Originally Posted by BroncosfanGuy View Post
as stated earlier, Knighton is used completely differently than Wolfe. He's not a UT. JDR's D isn't predicated on utilizing a traditional 4-3 1 tech/NT and a 3 tech/UT.
Wrong. It's imperative that the Broncos are able to get inside pressure no matter what front they play.


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yeah, what does that have to do with anything I posted?
Stroud and Henderson were able to collapse the pocket consistently. Maybe Knighton and Vickerson can, but they haven't been able to previously in their careers.



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Miller is used as a DE quite a bit, but he's moved all around--even in nickle situations. Your scenario right here is a far cry from 'constantly facing triple teams' as you stated earlier. Miller faced plenty of chips from TEs and RBs last 2 years and fared well. If teams do decide they want to constantly triple team Von, well have fun with that. Unless they are in max protect, there's a good chance someone is getting off a block pretty quick. Even if his name isn't Doom.
Von is always either used as an edge-rushing DE, or to occasionally drop back into coverage. Not sure what games your watching. So let's examine the other players on the DL:

1. Robert Ayers - averages 1.6 sacks per year
2. Terrance Knighton - averages 1.8 sacks per year
3. Kevin Vickerson - averages 0.7 sacks per year
4. Derek Wolfe - has shown ability to rush the passer from the UT position (JDR refuses to start him there).
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:30 PM   #103
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There is a lot of misconception around here about what kind of Defense the Broncos run. Because IAOFM stated once that the Broncos DT's 2-gap all the time (they don't)...many on the OMANE takes it to be gospel.

2-gapping 3-4 Defense:
1. Need NT who can beat (or at least require) double-team. The NT lines up directly over the Center, and two-gaps to both sides of the Center.
2. Both DE's line up directly over the OT's and 2-gap on either side of the OT.
3. Need 2 OLB's who can rush the passer from the edge and drop back into the flat with ease.
4. Need 2 ILB's who are fierce run-stoppers, but who can also guard TE's.


The Broncos don't do any of that. They have Von Miller, and employ an odd front 34% of the time...that doesn't make it a 3-4.


Robert Ayers is not a 3-4 OLB (no matter what McDaniels says), and Freeney sucked as a 3-4 OLB...yet that's who the Broncos were planning to play at RDE. The weakside of a 4-3 under is just like a 4-3...while the strongside of a 4-3 under plays like a 3-4.

That is why the Broncos are looking for a 4-3 RDE to replace Dumervil...and not a 3-4 OLB.

Bannan was supposed to play like a UT, but he couldn't get any pressure. Wolfe would have been perfect in place of Bannan. Now, most of the Broncos Defense is playing out of position. I'm not even sure JDR knows what Defense he's running.

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Old 03-30-2013, 07:50 AM   #104
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Basically your argument is predicated on the what if we are playing an elite TE like Gronkowski that a guy like Manti would be a liability. The problem with that argument is there are maybe 5 truly elite receiving TEs in the NFL. and those 5 embarass just about everyone they matchup with. It makes no sense to say no to a guy based on the assumption he could have trouble covering a level of talebt he might see maybe 3 times a year.
I agree with half of this.

Your first point is true; who in this league shuts down Gronk on a regular basis?

However, we're clearly trying to build a team to beat the Pats in the playoffs, so I don't fully agree with your point on not seeing the elite TE's very much in any given season. We need to be able to at least deal with a guy like Gronk in the one game that matters -- the playoff game.
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Old 03-30-2013, 09:34 AM   #105
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Price, I don't use it's all over fat man for anything I speak about. I watch and analyze everything I speak about. Your problem is you think 4-3 or 3-4, one or the other.

Yet our DTs last year, Bannan, Vickerson, and Wolfe two gapped and played read and react for the run first. I questioned it too, it wasn't completely obvious, especially how they lined up and how varying personnel and formations would mask it even more. I had to watch plays and games multiple times, and argued with Fontaine and MUG over this very topic. Our three DTs and I include Wolfe two gapped playing the run first before rushing the passer. This greatly helped the defense for two reasons, it covered the weakness of our Defense which is weak and undersized LBs, and it brought the best out of our players. Von coming around Wolfe is going to be a dynamic pairing in the future, one we should all be ecstatic about, especially as that beast Wolfe continues to develop. Having our bigs two gapped allowed our weaker undersized LBs (Woodyard and Brooking) clean releases to flow to the ball, usually untouched.

Doom would set the edge and pass rush like a normal 4-3 DE or a constant pass rushing 3-4 OLB, and so you know Doom did drop into coverage some last year. And in our scheme Von the "4-3 Sam" plays like a 4-3 and 3-4 OLB.

So our defense may be a 4-3 in title, it plays like a 3-4 up front and with Von, but it plays like a 4-3 with the LBs Woodyard and Brooking and RDE from last year Doom. So it happens to in fact be a 3-4 hidden in a 4-3. You know who runs a very similar scheme.. Seattle.
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:04 PM   #106
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Price, I don't use it's all over fat man for anything I speak about. I watch and analyze everything I speak about. Your problem is you think 4-3 or 3-4, one or the other..
Price gets too caught up on 4-3/3-4 alignment or RDE/LDE labels when not pimping his next NFL stud like Crick. I swear he plays too much Madden.
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:11 PM   #107
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I agree with half of this.

Your first point is true; who in this league shuts down Gronk on a regular basis?

However, we're clearly trying to build a team to beat the Pats in the playoffs, so I don't fully agree with your point on not seeing the elite TE's very much in any given season. We need to be able to at least deal with a guy like Gronk in the one game that matters -- the playoff game.
The blueprint to beating the Pats isn't shutting down Gronk, it's putting Brady on his ass and forcing him to get rid of the ball quicker. Gronk can't beat anyone if Brady is continuously on his back
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Old 03-30-2013, 02:14 PM   #108
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The blueprint to beating the Pats isn't shutting down Gronk, it's putting Brady on his ass and forcing him to get rid of the ball quicker. Gronk can't beat anyone if Brady is continuously on his back
That can be said about any offense.
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Old 03-30-2013, 02:57 PM   #109
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Price gets too caught up on 4-3/3-4 alignment or RDE/LDE labels when not pimping his next NFL stud like Crick. I swear he plays too much Madden.
I think you and the Berkshire Hathaway poster "Marcus?" both said the same thing I have tried to convey about how Doom was used, but it's always Price who questions it..

He knows best..
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Old 03-30-2013, 03:47 PM   #110
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The blueprint to beating the Pats isn't shutting down Gronk, it's putting Brady on his ass and forcing him to get rid of the ball quicker. Gronk can't beat anyone if Brady is continuously on his back
I fully agree with that in general. All I'm saying is, I don't agree with the idea of "well we only face elite TEs 3 times a year" when one of those games is potentially the most important game of the season.
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:54 AM   #111
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**** it take him
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Old 03-31-2013, 05:04 AM   #112
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TE in the draft simply aint gonna happen. We'll be playing in many more 3WR/1TE sets and we already have 4 TE's under contract. Plus we got some guys there that are reliable and can play. There are bigger needs.
You're probably right about it but the value for a top TE is right about where we are in 1st round.
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Old 03-31-2013, 10:52 AM   #113
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Id rather take Elam in 1, Bell in 2, and Bostic in 3. Or Sylvester in 1, Bell in 2, and Bostic in 3. Or Oline in 1, Bell in 2, and Bostic in 3.
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Old 03-31-2013, 10:59 AM   #114
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Id rather take Elam in 1, Bell in 2, and Bostic in 3. Or Sylvester in 1, Bell in 2, and Bostic in 3. Or Oline in 1, Bell in 2, and Bostic in 3.
I love that all three scenarios involve taking Bell!
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:14 AM   #115
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for the love of God we run a multiple front D.
sometimes it's 4-3, other times it's a 3-4 and other times it's a nickel.
we're not strictly any one thing. arguing over this is silly.

we need to take the BPA whether it's a WR like Calvin Allen, a RB like Lacy, a LB like Te'o, a DE like Moore or a TE like Eifert if need be.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:37 AM   #116
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for the love of God we run a multiple front D.
sometimes it's 4-3, other times it's a 3-4 and other times it's a nickel.

we're not strictly any one thing. arguing over this is silly.

we need to take the BPA whether it's a WR like Calvin Allen, a RB like Lacy, a LB like Te'o, a DE like Moore or a TE like Eifert if need be.
This is why losing Doom, could turnout for the best, in the long run. JDR isn't in such a closed system, he can make it a much more open system.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:50 AM   #117
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This is why losing Doom, could turnout for the best, in the long run. JDR isn't in such a closed system, he can make it a much more open system.
part of the reason i want us to draft a DE is to hopefully force JDR to play Wolfe more as a DT and rarely as a DE.
Wolfe and Knighton would be beastly inside with Von rushing and the other DE.
of course since Von is also a LB it would still allow JDR to play Wolfe at DE in a lot of cases.
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:01 PM   #118
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part of the reason i want us to draft a DE is to hopefully force JDR to play Wolfe more as a DT and rarely as a DE.
Wolfe and Knighton would be beastly inside with Von rushing and the other DE.
of course since Von is also a LB it would still allow JDR to play Wolfe at DE in a lot of cases.
Wolfe's role at DE is essentially a DT/DE, and he is crucial to Von's success.. See post #105..
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:05 PM   #119
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Wolfe's role at DE is essentially a DT/DE, and he is crucial to Von's success.. See post #105..
Yup, the DTs and LDE are there to protect the linebackers and allow the RDE to rush.
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:18 PM   #120
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Wolfe's role at DE is essentially a DT/DE, and he is crucial to Von's success.. See post #105..
i know, it's just a semi pet peeve of mine. though most of that will subside with Knighton now on the roster as a legit DT to pair with.
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:27 PM   #121
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Id rather take Elam in 1, Bell in 2, and Bostic in 3. Or Sylvester in 1, Bell in 2, and Bostic in 3. Or Oline in 1, Bell in 2, and Bostic in 3.
I don't know much about Vaccaro or Elam but if we found a young safety who could start that would be big. Really i just want the first round pick to be someone who can start and play well in the first yr. If it's at DE/DT/MLB/safety who cares it will make us better. A safety could really solidify our secondary into something special. A nice DT who can rush the passer on early downs would be so huge i can't even imagine it. A MLB who can get sideline to sideline and drop down the middle in pass coverage would be insane. A safety who is better then Adams or Moore would help us with our deep coverage defense which is sometimes suspect. Obviously a starting DE who is young and fast would lesson the sting of doom leaving. Lot's of spots still on defense Elway could look for a starter is my point.

On offense only really RB is open and maybe center but i doubt even that. It looks like Elway will probably use 2 of our first 3 picks on the defense.

Especially since he already took a QB, RB last yr, signed a guard and wr this yr.
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:38 PM   #122
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I really feel that Bell has ascended to the point that he will NOT be available at our second round selection. Look at all these teams bringing him in for a private workout prior to the draft -- most all of them selecting before us and in dire need of a power running attack (Jets, Giants, Steelers, Cowboys, etc.) With Eddie Lacy ****ting the bed and not performing any workouts until a week or two before the draft, I believe that Bell has began to emerge as one of the better backs on most people's boards.

My gut tells me that the Broncos trade out of #28 unless an insane value presents itself, and uses that selection on him. We didn't get to add a rusher in the free agency and we undoubtedly will add another guy to the stable in the draft. I like the kids game. I think he can do it all here.
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:41 PM   #123
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Wolfe's role at DE is essentially a DT/DE, and he is crucial to Von's success.. See post #105..
I think it's time to move Miller all over the field. He's going into his 3rd yr now and should make a leap as far as understanding NFL offenses. Play Wolfe at one end, Ayers at the other, use Malik as a role player. Then on passing downs bring Miller from both sides. Move him around more like we did with mecklenburg. Go ahead and let Miller have a few shots at the right tackle or come inside.

just something that seems logical to me considering Miller not that great in coverage yet. Move him around and make the whole oline worry about him. Make the QB account for him not knowing where he will come from until the hit the LOS.
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:42 PM   #124
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I really feel that Bell has ascended to the point that he will NOT be available at our second round selection. Look at all these teams bringing him in for a private workout prior to the draft -- most all of them selecting before us and in dire need of a power running attack (Jets, Giants, Steelers, Cowboys, etc.) With Eddie Lacy ****ting the bed and not performing any workouts until a week or two before the draft, I believe that Bell has began to emerge as one of the better backs on most people's boards.

My gut tells me that the Broncos trade out of #28 unless an insane value presents itself, and uses that selection on him. We didn't get to add a rusher in the free agency and we undoubtedly will add another guy to the stable in the draft. I like the kids game. I think he can do it all here.
I don't think workouts as important as your game tape. Just my 2 cents. Lacy a complete back who dominated in big games. True with a great oline but still he came up big in the big game this yr. Teams will have doctors look at him to make sure he isn't hiding anything and still draft him first RB off the board. Still though your right Bell could be the 2nd RB and be gone before late 2nd round.

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Old 03-31-2013, 12:49 PM   #125
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i know, it's just a semi pet peeve of mine. though most of that will subside with Knighton now on the roster as a legit DT to pair with.
Vickerson is an excellent two gapping UT in our scheme, he is big bodied and stout against the run yet he pushes the pocket and plays with a very solid motor. Knighton really upgrades Bannan and is just as stout against the run and plays with a better motor and ability to push the pocket.

I will tell you after watching our defensive front last year, an hours of rewatching the games, Wolfe and Vickerson were our two best players on the line. What Wolfe does on the inside at DE/DT is so impressive for a rookie, he is such a facilitator for Von Miller. Vickerson really disrupts the pocket and chases down every play. I am really looking froward to the progression of our interior DLine this year!
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