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Old 03-30-2013, 03:12 PM   #226
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Into his 40s??

If he wins a superbowl he's gonna retire. No way he plays into his 40s

Last edited by Drunken.Broncoholic; 03-30-2013 at 08:00 PM..
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Old 03-30-2013, 06:48 PM   #227
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Doom knew the Broncos would want to restructure his contract as far back as the Pro Bowl. This was not some spur of the moment decision brought on by Peyton Mannning but a decision made with years of future planning involved.

The FO does not work in the moment. Sullivan is building the cap for the next couple years since it will be stable and not assumed to go up til 2015

Doom was the 2nd highest paid defender in 2012. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out Miller needs to be the highest paid Bronco defender not Dumbberville
You actually wouldn't think that looking at the numbers considering in 2014 Denver has only 33 players under contract and $111m cap dollars utilised.

Then FA's
Clady
Woodyard
Decker
Walton
Ayers
Beadles
Adams
Colquitt

RFA's
Harris
Carter


DRC's contract would void but then leaves $2.1m in dead caproom but clears $5m

If Kuper and Mays are already gone, wipe out another $9m

Still not a lot of money to re-sign possibly 8 projected starters.
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Old 03-30-2013, 06:54 PM   #228
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Into his 40s??

If he wins a superbowl he's gonna retire. Now way he plays into his 40s
He will stop playing when he's not playing like himself.. I doubt he wins and just retires.. Especially if it were this year..
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:18 PM   #229
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If you think the doom restructure came as a result of manning wanting freeney, you've lost it too
The Doom CUT came as a result of Elway's signing of Peyton, Champ, and Prater. Elway has an ego, he didn't sign Elvis, but he wanted him to take the haircut for other signings that impacted the cap. C'mon man, Elway had to backpedal furiously after his initial miscalculation and offer Elvis a deal that had almost the same 2013 cap hit.
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:23 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by eddie mac View Post
You actually wouldn't think that looking at the numbers considering in 2014 Denver has only 33 players under contract and $111m cap dollars utilised.

Then FA's
Clady
Woodyard
Decker
Walton
Ayers
Beadles
Adams
Colquitt

RFA's
Harris
Carter


DRC's contract would void but then leaves $2.1m in dead caproom but clears $5m

If Kuper and Mays are already gone, wipe out another $9m

Still not a lot of money to re-sign possibly 8 projected starters.
As far as I can see the cap figure for next year is only 100 million allocated. You can be sure that the 4.5 for Mays and the 10.5 for Champ will not stand as they are.
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Old 03-30-2013, 08:03 PM   #231
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He will stop playing when he's not playing like himself.. I doubt he wins and just retires.. Especially if it were this year..
He's already not playing like himself to a certain extent. He's never been a long ball passer but the velocity is not the same as in the past. Whether that is from injury or age is debatable.
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:37 PM   #232
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Hey guys, I'm gonna play a game where I take a drink every time pricejj posts about Damontre Moore. I predict death by page 7.
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:49 PM   #233
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He's already not playing like himself to a certain extent. He's never been a long ball passer but the velocity is not the same as in the past. Whether that is from injury or age is debatable.
Are you claiming that the arguable MVP of the league last year isn't playing at a high level?
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Old 03-31-2013, 01:40 AM   #234
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I guarantee neither of those players get 60+ 8+ their rookie year. No way. Ain't gonna happen.
I disagree. That's a reasonable goal for a 1st round DE. Chandler Jones had 45/6 and was injured/benched the last half of the year.

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Then you read an article that does not support your opinion yet you claim it does.
The article talks about Wolfe's superior pass-rush ability to Knighton, and how it would be beneficial to draft a DE and move Wolfe inside, improving 2 positions.

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so, we needed a DT and have for years, they finally spend on one who was one of the better in FA and he's a waste of money?
he's a big 330 NT type of clogger who can help the outside rushers not face double teams all the time and stop the run.
How many NT's does one team need? I thought that's what Vickerson was for? At some point the Broncos DT's are going to have to start collapsing the pocket and generating sacks for this team to be successful against top flight QB's.

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pricejj has lost it.
Because I promote moving Wolfe inside to take advantage of his pass rush ability, and that losing Dumervil was a big mistake? Egads, crazy talk.


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He lost me the day he claimed Rahim Moore had run responsibility on the big gaffe play and it was all tony Carter's fault
That's a lie. I said Moore took a couple steps forward at the snap, because he was looking for stuff underneath, and that he played the ball poorly. Carter didn't do a damn thing on the play.

Last edited by pricejj; 03-31-2013 at 01:45 AM..
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Old 03-31-2013, 04:11 AM   #235
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How many NT's does one team need? I thought that's what Vickerson was for? At some point the Broncos DT's are going to have to start collapsing the pocket and generating sacks for this team to be successful against top flight QB's.
Vickerson was signed to be the starting UT in the base defense like he was last year. Knighton was signed to start at NT. He's replacing Bannan and is huge upgrade against the pass. Him and Vickerson also give the Broncos the best chance to collapse the pocket when teams throw the ball against the base D.
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:24 AM   #236
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Vickerson was signed to be the starting UT in the base defense like he was last year. Knighton was signed to start at NT. He's replacing Bannan and is huge upgrade against the pass. Him and Vickerson also give the Broncos the best chance to collapse the pocket when teams throw the ball against the base D.
This! Price doesn't know Knighton can push the pocket and Vickerson is a big athletic UT. Price doesn't comprehend our current scheme, hence his Knighton hate..
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:28 AM   #237
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Are you claiming that the arguable MVP of the league last year isn't playing at a high level?
! This!!!!!

Plus he's going to get Welker in the slot. Peyton will continue rehabbing and I'm sure he posts even better numbers next year! I clearly remember Elway saying our goal is to try to get Peyton multiple championships before he retires. After just one season of being arguably the leagues MVP on a new team, with new teammates, and 18 months removed from football, he's just gonna hang them up? Wow..
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:29 AM   #238
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...Elway had to backpedal furiously after his initial miscalculation and offer Elvis a deal that had almost the same 2013 cap hit.
This wasn't just about cap. It was also about cash. I also think they knew from the start that there was a decent probability that they'd lose Dumervil while being hopeful they could figure out a way to keep him. The fax snafu is very much like the Rahim Moore snafu. Both caused a very different (and undesirable) outcome.
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Old 03-31-2013, 09:15 AM   #239
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You actually wouldn't think that looking at the numbers considering in 2014 Denver has only 33 players under contract and $111m cap dollars utilised.

Then FA's
Clady
Woodyard
Decker
Walton
Ayers
Beadles
Adams
Colquitt

RFA's
Harris
Carter


DRC's contract would void but then leaves $2.1m in dead caproom but clears $5m

If Kuper and Mays are already gone, wipe out another $9m

Still not a lot of money to re-sign possibly 8 projected starters.
My point exactly. I understand what you are saying and this is exactly why Sullivan knows exactly what the team needs to do now to follow the business model edict for the coming years.

I know you like to project the cap and you do a great job for the site but I personally don't follow the interweb numbers because only the team knows for sure what the true numbers are.

Realistically the numbers Sullivan works are probably a lot different because they know what they want to do in 2014 and beyond with the roster and we don't

I would be surprised to see Denver in a pickle in the coming years just based on how Elway wants to run the business side which is to build through the draft and their resign their true valuable players
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:03 AM   #240
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They could be great in the future. But what kind of instant impact can a low round rookie make on a team that has basically a 1 year(2 at best) window to win a superbowl? I really think it was win now last year. And now that they didnt make it the picture is being drawn up a bit different. Preparing for life after manning. When manning was acquired I estimated he had 2 good years of football left before you see a considerable drop in production/retirement. If they were truly in win now they wouldve kept dumervil.
it's because they were in win now mode that he got bounced.
he had to take a pay cut for the team to afford him and the new FA moves.
he didn't and so they saved money and cut him.

all we need from a rookie DE is 40-50 tackles & 6-8 sacks and to be solid against the run.
Knighton and Wolfe can help force the double teams off of Von and if we find a nice MLB that will help as well.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:17 AM   #241
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You actually wouldn't think that looking at the numbers considering in 2014 Denver has only 33 players under contract and $111m cap dollars utilised.

Then FA's
Clady
Woodyard
Decker
Walton
Ayers
Beadles
Adams
Colquitt

RFA's
Harris
Carter


DRC's contract would void but then leaves $2.1m in dead caproom but clears $5m

If Kuper and Mays are already gone, wipe out another $9m

Still not a lot of money to re-sign possibly 8 projected starters.
Great points. I was thinking the same thing. I was posting this on another thread and a member said I was crazy. I just don't see how we can sign everyone. Were going to have to pick and choose. Thoughts on drafting a WR this year and let Decker walk in 2014 OR a CB this year and release Bailey in 2014?
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:21 AM   #242
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The article talks about Wolfe's superior pass-rush ability to Knighton, and how it would be beneficial to draft a DE and move Wolfe inside, improving 2 positions.
Ok, try to stay with me on this because I guess for you this is difficult to understand. The article clearly states that the reality of the Broncos defense is that it operates more like a 3-4 than a 4-3, regardless of if this is true or not, here's the deal with Knighten:

If Wolf lines up inside with Knighten, and Knighten gets double teamed, does this not leave Wolfe in a one-on-one situation? Wolfe, being the superior pass rusher, should be able to consistently beat whatever blocker is assigned to him, correct? Again, Knighten helps Wolfe by absorbing more attention from the opposing offensive line.

Your only valid argument about Knighten being a wasted FA pick up is IF opposing offensive lines double up Wolfe and leave Knighten in a one-on-one situation and Knighten can't take advantage of this. IF this is what you are saying, ok, but again, I like any of our defensive line guys, including Ayers, Jackson, Wolfe, Vickerson and yes Knighten in a one-on-one match up. Knighten is a huge DT/NT. He should be able to get inside pressure if he's blocked by one guy like a center or guard. Is he gonna do a swim move, or a quick spin move and simply get to the opposing QB with quickness, No. Is he gonna collapse the pocket and push the opposing offensive lineman back into the QB, yes. Regardless if Knighten gets a sack or not, his ability to create pressure by collapsing the pocket is what the Broncos are looking for, that is, if Knighten does not demand a double team.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:22 AM   #243
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Are you claiming that the arguable MVP of the league last year isn't playing at a high level?
No. I'm saying he isn't playing like he's 27.

A persons age in the sports world has considerable effects on a players ability. Turning from 26 to 27 has no effect. Turning 36 to 37, or 37 to 38 does. Unless you are Barry bonds your ability is going to drop.

Last edited by Drunken.Broncoholic; 03-31-2013 at 11:27 AM..
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:24 AM   #244
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Great points. I was thinking the same thing. I was posting this on another thread and a member said I was crazy. I just don't see how we can sign everyone. Were going to have to pick and choose. Thoughts on drafting a WR this year and let Decker walk in 2014 OR a CB this year and release Bailey in 2014?
i doubt we re-sign Adams, Ayers depends on his play the next couple of seasons and if he starts, Walton is replaceable, Beadles depends on Kuper and the market. Carter will likely be replaced by draft picks, we have enough depth, we just added DRC and Bolden should make a move this season and beyond to take over his spot on the DC.

Clady,Woodyard,Colquitt,Decker,Harris and Von are the priority contracts.
that's why it's crucial for the team to draft and develop well.
so far Elway has done great at this as has the coaching staff.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:27 AM   #245
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No. I'm saying he isn't playing like he's 27.
Your a pretty tough critic, as someone who has followed his entire career, I can assure you he was pretty much the Peyton of old. He was the best QB in football last year, I'm not sure what else you want..
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:27 AM   #246
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Ok, try to stay with me on this because I guess for you this is difficult to understand. The article clearly states that the reality of the Broncos defense is that it operates more like a 3-4 than a 4-3, regardless of if this is true or not, here's the deal with Knighten:

If Wolf lines up inside with Knighten, and Knighten gets double teamed, does this not leave Wolfe in a one-on-one situation? Wolfe, being the superior pass rusher, should be able to consistently beat whatever blocker is assigned to him, correct? Again, Knighten helps Wolfe by absorbing more attention from the opposing offensive line.

Your only valid argument about Knighten being a wasted FA pick up is IF opposing offensive lines double up Wolfe and leave Knighten in a one-on-one situation and Knighten can't take advantage of this. IF this is what you are saying, ok, but again, I like any of our defensive line guys, including Ayers, Jackson, Wolfe, Vickerson and yes Knighten in a one-on-one match up. Knighten is a huge DT/NT. He should be able to get inside pressure if he's blocked by one guy like a center or guard. Is he gonna do a swim move, or a quick spin move and simply get to the opposing QB with quickness, No. Is he gonna collapse the pocket and push the opposing offensive lineman back into the QB, yes. Regardless if Knighten gets a sack or not, his ability to create pressure by collapsing the pocket is what the Broncos are looking for, that is, if Knighten does not demand a double team.
wasn't Knighton brought in to be a run stuffing NT who can take on double teams? that's what i assume his role is in this defense.
therefor i don't give a **** if he can rush the passer so much as if i care that he forces double teams to his side and frees up Wolfe,Von or the other DE to have a one on one situation.

i'm agreeing with you, i was just to lazy to quote the other poster who's post was farther up
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:31 AM   #247
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Your a pretty tough critic, as someone who has followed his entire career, I can assure you he was pretty much the Peyton of old. He was the best QB in football last year, I'm not sure what else you want..
I'm not his critic. Actually I'm hated by some here because I disliked tebow so much. I was one of the most for manning coming here. But I can see reality of a persons age and what happens. Doesn't matter how great a shape you are in when you get into your late 30s your ability diminishes unless you're taking steroids. Pretty much why it's an age most retire at.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:35 AM   #248
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wasn't Knighton brought in to be a run stuffing NT who can take on double teams? that's what i assume his role is in this defense.
therefor i don't give a **** if he can rush the passer so much as if i care that he forces double teams to his side and frees up Wolfe,Von or the other DE to have a one on one situation.

i'm agreeing with you, i was just to lazy to quote the other poster who's post was farther up
I think this is the plan for Knighten, to soak up two blockers leaving the other guys in one-on-one situations. I don't think the Broncos view Knighten as a sack guy per say, but a guy who opposing offenses still have to game plan around in their blocking schemes.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:38 AM   #249
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Clady,Woodyard,Colquitt,Decker,Harris and Von are the priority contracts.
And for that matter, although you'd like to keep them, Woodyard, Colquitt, and Decker are all replacable. Good players but not necessarily "special".
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:42 AM   #250
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I'm not his critic. Actually I'm hated by some here because I disliked tebow so much. I was one of the most for manning coming here. But I can see reality of a persons age and what happens. Doesn't matter how great a shape you are in when you get into your late 30s your ability diminishes unless you're taking steroids. Pretty much why it's an age most retire at.
What part of his game has diminished? Deep throws because he didn't throw deep on Baltimore? It wasn't because Baltimore played two deep Cover 2 forcing Peyton to have to settle for what was available underneath.

I seem to remember someone throwing deep balls during the year, against Baltimore on December 16th, I was at the game, which cause Baltimore to play two deep in the playoffs. It's not his arm strength, it's his nerve, he can't quiet grip the ball the same, whether that will improve or not remains to be seen. After last seasons incredible play, I wouldn't bet against him.. In fact I know he will be better this year.
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