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Old 03-30-2013, 01:38 PM   #51
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Always have to wonder how much of this has to do with internal politics. Initially there was some thought that the new Kim having been in the West for a period might be open to actual reform - there was almost some hope when he initially took over. I wonder if this was a concern among the generals too and now Kim is being forced back into the old pattern to keep the generals happy and himself in power.

I think this shows that we have another long long wait on our hands for any real reforms in NK. It would take a charismatic leader to actually get the generals out of their old ways of thinking and this young Kim does not inspire much confidence does he?
I believe the current Kim was the only one of Jong-Il's sons that DID NOT embrace the West. He was the youngest of them all, right? I read something about Jong-Il's sons going playboy in Switzerland, Macau, on Facebook, etc., but Jong-Un came back from school in Switzerland and stayed in NKorea, and that's why he was chosen as the new Super-Commander.

Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see how this all plays out. East Asia is kind of a hotspot. Lot's of big players in geopolitics in that region, strong economies with Japan, China, SKorea, lots of oil, and of course Russia wants to stay a big player in that region as well as the US.

Japan keeps trying to amend their constitution to be more of an offensive military, and China/NKorea is scared sh*tless of that happening. Throw in the Phillipines also, they have a Muslim insurgency and have had conflicts with China. China has their fingers on the Phillipines for sure.
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:40 PM   #52
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The North Korean people are in a land lost in time. No other country on the planet is as shut off or isolated. A few idiots in charge spewing proaganda and telling the populace what reality is. I'd love to take a common North Korean person around America for a week, I bet they'd be in awe. I still remember the space shuttle pictures of lights over land masses, yet North Korea was always dark, such a shame people live like that and are unaware how the rest of the world really lives. We are totally blessed to live in this nation.
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:47 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Cito Pelon View Post
I believe the current Kim was the only one of Jong-Il's sons that DID NOT embrace the West. He was the youngest of them all, right? I read something about Jong-Il's sons going playboy in Switzerland, Macau, on Facebook, etc., but Jong-Un came back from school in Switzerland and stayed in NKorea, and that's why he was chosen as the new Super-Commander.

Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see how this all plays out. East Asia is kind of a hotspot. Lot's of big players in geopolitics in that region, strong economies with Japan, China, SKorea, lots of oil, and of course Russia wants to stay a big player in that region as well as the US.

Japan keeps trying to amend their constitution to be more of an offensive military, and China/NKorea is scared sh*tless of that happening. Throw in the Phillipines also, they have a Muslim insurgency and have had conflicts with China. China has their fingers on the Phillipines for sure.
I don't know that scared ****less is the right terminology as Chinese military spending per year is roughly equivalent to Japan, the UK, France, and Russia combined. If they keep spending at such a high rate, only the U.S. will really be able to push them around out there. Example of what that military spending is leading to: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...red-faced.html

I think China welcomes Japan getting aggressive, because then Japan can't play the victim card, and the U.S. can't as easily get involved.

I just don't see NK as a player in this area, they are the little kid no one pays attention to.

Last edited by Willynowei; 03-30-2013 at 01:56 PM..
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:55 PM   #54
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This photo sums up North Korea.

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Old 03-30-2013, 01:56 PM   #55
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Well our government said they needed an extra 1,600,000,000 bullets.

Who would have thought we would have gotten ourselves in 20+ years of war because Saddam launched a few scuds at Israel. It's been a mess since. Saddam had no chance of defeating Israel yet was crazy enough to lob some rockets at them.

Israel could have just smashed Iraq themselves and we would have sparred ourselves a lot of blood, trillions of dollars, 9-11, and possibly a recession. Hell our government faces shutting down monthly now while taxes are going up across the board. Something will have to give.

North Korea? Who knows what the Military Industrial Complex will come up with next.

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Old 03-30-2013, 02:03 PM   #56
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Russia lost control of most of Manchuria to Japan around the time of world war I, they gained back control of parts of it in 1925 but lost it to Japan in world war 2. The Russians took it back in 1945 and the Chinese communists took it over in 1949 and used it as the power base to launch the Chinese revolution.

Kim Il Sung spend a lot of time in China, he grew up in Manchuria, he was a member of the chinese communist party in the 1930s and fought in chinese guerrilla groups against the Japanese in Manchuria, he later became a political officer of the chinese communist party.

Kim Il Sung had pretty tight relations with Mao, but after his death and the reforms of Deng Xiaopeng relations with China deteriorated as China no longer had any need to trade with North Korea when they opened up trades with Europe and especially North America.

Neither China nor Russia have strong political influence in North Korea these days, China has closed their borders completely to North Korea. China has an interest in North Korea keeping South Korea from becoming a dominant asian economy, but China has no interest in an all out war, firstly North Korea is very close to China and should it come to nuclear war the fallout will be felt in China, it will also shut down a lot of shipping which China relies heavily on for imports and exports.
Well, that's somewhat true. The Russians still control the parts of Manchuria they took way back under the Czars in the 19th century. Particularly the coastal area on the Sea of Japan and the border to North Korea. Then there was some land grabs by the Czars after the Boxer Wars in 1901 that included Mongolia I believe.

Yeah, there was some change of hands after the 1905 Russia-Japanese war, and more change of hands after 1944 when I believe Russia took Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands.

As I said, there has been some interesting dynamics in East Asia, and memories are long. China lost to Russia a good chunk of their sphere of influence as well as outright territory lost from about 1859 to WWII. And China hasn't regained it.
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Old 03-30-2013, 02:09 PM   #57
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If they do attack, does Obama drop the hammer?
Make no mistake, Obama will swiftly respond.

NK has to know they will commit suicide if they do decide to attack and I don't know if China would come to the rescue again as they did in the Korean war. Such events could cripple the Chinese military and economy.

Some interesting dynamics here, lots of bitter history between countries in that region and economic interests at play here.
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Old 03-30-2013, 02:17 PM   #58
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Well that's very interesting maybe you could enlighten me as to when Iraq attacked the United States?
Did you forget Kuwait and the first Iraqi war. Did you forget the whole middle eastern connection to Oil and Insanity. Sheesh, read and think people.
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Old 03-30-2013, 02:24 PM   #59
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Dude, pick up a ****ing book, or go visit China, you're wayyyyyy off.
I don't believe the bull****. China has a long history of bull****ting. With China, I know one thing: What the man on the street wants doesn't mean ****.
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Old 03-30-2013, 02:29 PM   #60
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I don't know that scared ****less is the right terminology as Chinese military spending per year is roughly equivalent to Japan, the UK, France, and Russia combined. If they keep spending at such a high rate, only the U.S. will really be able to push them around out there. Example of what that military spending is leading to: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...red-faced.html

I think China welcomes Japan getting aggressive, because then Japan can't play the victim card, and the U.S. can't as easily get involved.

I just don't see NK as a player in this area, they are the little kid no one pays attention to.
Yeah, China is certainly trying to regain their sphere of influence and expand it in East Asia, South Asia, and the Western Pacific. NK is a pawn as Roh said above.

IMO, NK is kind of a dangerous pawn for them to play. China supported the UN resolutions for sanctions after NK went nuclear, but they continue to support NK economically. They're playing a dangerous game because Beijing is within range of nuclear missiles from NK. China is playing a dangerous game with NK.
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Old 03-30-2013, 02:37 PM   #61
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It's naive to look on this move of NKs as totally separate from the campaign of aggression the Chinese have been pushing the last few years:

China's creeping assertiveness towards its neighbours, evident since 2008-09, has become even bolder. Within weeks of his (Xi's) ascendancy, for the first time, four Chinese warships entered waters near the Japanese-controlled Senkaku islands that China calls Diaoyu. This was followed by a Chinese maritime surveillance aircraft flying over the contested islands, prompting Japan to scramble its own fighter jets. A confrontation was avoided as the Chinese plane had left the area before Japanese interceptors arrived. But the message was clear: China was ready to use force to change the status quo. Although the island has been under Japanese control for five decades, China's attempt to change the reality on the ground is perhaps based on calculation that a weakened and dispirited Japan would seek to avoid direct confrontation. China's aggressive moves also coincided with its submission of documents to the UN, detailing its claims to the continental shelf in the East China Sea.

This escalation comes in the wake of other incidents in the South China Sea, in which Chinese patrol boats had repeatedly intercepted Vietnamese and Malaysian survey vessels and cut seismic cables used for exploration. China's Hainan province has passed a law allowing its officials to search and repel foreign ships believed to be engaged in "illegal activities" in the territorial waters surrounding islands that China claims. Like the surveillance flight over Senkakus, this operation too, is designed to make good China's claim to the islets, rocks and surrounding waters claimed by Beijing.

By launching its first aircraft carrier and expanding its maritime patrol Beijing has put some teeth behind its territorial claims. These military moves have also been accompanied by stepped up economic pressure on the neighbours. After banning exports of rare earth minerals (on which China holds a monopoly) to Japan, China has sharply cut back imports from Japan and scaled down Chinese tourist visits to the country, causing Japan to run a trade deficit for the fifth month in a row. Earlier, China cancelled banana imports from the Philippines in retaliation for its challenge to China's territorial claims. Alarmed Vietnamese officials have called on China to desist from using trade tools in settling a territorial dispute. As Vietnam's largest trade partner, China holds considerable sway.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...inese-plane-xi

Last edited by Rohirrim; 03-30-2013 at 02:40 PM..
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Old 03-30-2013, 02:44 PM   #62
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I don't believe the bull****. China has a long history of bull****ting. With China, I know one thing: What the man on the street wants doesn't mean ****.
Lmao, do you know what its like to live one day in the shoes of a Chinese government official? You go to the fanciest restaurants, nicest bars, you have some hot european model wife and your kids go to Harvard. Do you know where all this money comes from? International private interests, from U.S. companies, European companies, Japanese companies.

Sounds terrible doesn't it? Really makes you want to build a big military and push others around.

Do you know who actually wants Chinese hegemony and military development? Chinese citizens! That's right.

You're talking about a people who have constantly experienced invasions for thousands of years from "babarians" (including mongols, manchurians, the united western forces in the opium wars and Japan).

This group of impoverished people used to starve under a corrupt ruling class that eventually got kicked off the mainland onto a little island called Taiwan, along with the ruling elite that they consider greedy and corrupt.

This group is particularly pissed off at the fact that their own navy can't keep America's 7th fleet outside of their own backyard, as pissed as you or I would be if we lived on the coasts in the early 1800's and saw the British Royal Navy parading around American docks for "peace keeping" missions.

The Chinese people, the poor, are the ones that care about pride and nationalism, their government officials, are concerned about only 1 thing - money, because they are hard core capitalists.

Ask any expert on the area and they'll tell you that growing nationalism among the "common people" that you say are not heard over there is the primary pressure internally for central government to build up their military.

Go to China, watch how the common people make fun of their own government as incapable of being strong and projecting Chinese influence the way that America does.

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Old 03-30-2013, 02:46 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
It's naive to look on this move of NKs as totally separate from the campaign of aggression the Chinese have been pushing the last few years:

China's creeping assertiveness towards its neighbours, evident since 2008-09, has become even bolder. Within weeks of his (Xi's) ascendancy, for the first time, four Chinese warships entered waters near the Japanese-controlled Senkaku islands that China calls Diaoyu. This was followed by a Chinese maritime surveillance aircraft flying over the contested islands, prompting Japan to scramble its own fighter jets. A confrontation was avoided as the Chinese plane had left the area before Japanese interceptors arrived. But the message was clear: China was ready to use force to change the status quo. Although the island has been under Japanese control for five decades, China's attempt to change the reality on the ground is perhaps based on calculation that a weakened and dispirited Japan would seek to avoid direct confrontation. China's aggressive moves also coincided with its submission of documents to the UN, detailing its claims to the continental shelf in the East China Sea.

This escalation comes in the wake of other incidents in the South China Sea, in which Chinese patrol boats had repeatedly intercepted Vietnamese and Malaysian survey vessels and cut seismic cables used for exploration. China's Hainan province has passed a law allowing its officials to search and repel foreign ships believed to be engaged in "illegal activities" in the territorial waters surrounding islands that China claims. Like the surveillance flight over Senkakus, this operation too, is designed to make good China's claim to the islets, rocks and surrounding waters claimed by Beijing.

By launching its first aircraft carrier and expanding its maritime patrol Beijing has put some teeth behind its territorial claims. These military moves have also been accompanied by stepped up economic pressure on the neighbours. After banning exports of rare earth minerals (on which China holds a monopoly) to Japan, China has sharply cut back imports from Japan and scaled down Chinese tourist visits to the country, causing Japan to run a trade deficit for the fifth month in a row. Earlier, China cancelled banana imports from the Philippines in retaliation for its challenge to China's territorial claims. Alarmed Vietnamese officials have called on China to desist from using trade tools in settling a territorial dispute. As Vietnam's largest trade partner, China holds considerable sway.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiati...inese-plane-xi
excellent sources you educate yourself with there. !

Its funny because your article mentions the senkaku islands which i already referred to earlier in the thread, except the difference is, i actually said why they want Senkaku where as ur article brilliantly skips over it.

Chinese disputes over islands mainly focus on economic trade routes and oil, they don't give a **** about North Korea, and neither does the U.S.

Last edited by Willynowei; 03-30-2013 at 02:51 PM..
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Old 03-30-2013, 02:49 PM   #64
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That is why North Korea is so pissed off... They thought Rodman was Obama.

Now that's damn funny....
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Old 03-30-2013, 02:54 PM   #65
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Did you forget Kuwait and the first Iraqi war. Did you forget the whole middle eastern connection to Oil and Insanity. Sheesh, read and think people.
So Kuwait is the 51st state than. Geez nobody tells me anything.
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Old 03-30-2013, 03:14 PM   #66
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This is worth posting again

You'd think these radicals would put 1 and 1 together in their mind and conclude that if their cause is so great, they wouldn't have to cover up facts and lie like that, yet they never seem to get it. And they never question what they're doing, either.
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Old 03-30-2013, 04:19 PM   #67
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excellent sources you educate yourself with there. !

Its funny because your article mentions the senkaku islands which i already referred to earlier in the thread, except the difference is, i actually said why they want Senkaku where as ur article brilliantly skips over it.

Chinese disputes over islands mainly focus on economic trade routes and oil, they don't give a **** about North Korea, and neither does the U.S.
The Times of India? They have the largest circulation in the world.
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Old 03-30-2013, 04:27 PM   #68
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This is worth posting again

Dang their news is more accurate than our own main stream media.
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Old 03-30-2013, 04:34 PM   #69
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Don't worry Obama will handle it.......Oh wait no he won't.
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Old 03-30-2013, 04:53 PM   #70
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Dang their news is more accurate than our own main stream media.
I didn't realize Kim Jong-un posted on the OM. Who knew?
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Old 03-30-2013, 05:02 PM   #71
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Dang their news is more accurate than our own main stream media.
Not clearing a huge hurdle there are they.
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Old 03-30-2013, 05:03 PM   #72
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Don't worry Obama will handle it.......Oh wait no he won't.
Bush didn't "handle it".
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Old 03-30-2013, 05:12 PM   #73
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I didn't realize Kim Jong-un posted on the OM. Who knew?
Got kinche?
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Old 03-30-2013, 05:20 PM   #74
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Not clearing a huge hurdle there are they.


Where have all the Walter Cronkites gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the Walter Cronkites gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the Walter Cronkites gone?
Time have picked them every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?

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Old 03-30-2013, 05:56 PM   #75
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Where have all the Walter Cronkites gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the Walter Cronkites gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the Walter Cronkites gone?
Time have picked them every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?
He was the last guy I remember my family tuning in to hear every night. I was a child when we landed on the moon and remember hanging on his every word and looking up at night to see if I could see the guys up there.
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