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Old 03-30-2013, 10:18 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by peacepipe View Post
when did Iraq attack America? Or am I misreading this.
Didn't you listen to Dick Cheney? Saddam was behind 911.
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Old 03-30-2013, 10:20 AM   #27
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There are no birds left in America, I have no idea how we would win against the great Un.
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Old 03-30-2013, 10:20 AM   #28
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You invade Iraq to protect the petro dollar, improve relations and stability in the region for our interests, and you get access to their oil reserves that you have someone manage with the interests of US companies in mind.

Iraq invasion seems to have some pretty decent reasoning behind it to me.

Whats in North Korea? Poor people. The only thing you do by invading North Korea is make China think you're trying to get American spy planes closer inland.
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Old 03-30-2013, 10:22 AM   #29
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All these years of tolerating this Regime of horror....

Tell me why we had to attack Iraq again??
I didn't realize Mexico attack Iraq.
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Old 03-30-2013, 10:22 AM   #30
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This is worth posting again

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Old 03-30-2013, 10:26 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Full war declaration statement from DPRK (via KCNA):


http://live.reuters.com/Event/North_Korea/70001409
I don't think this is the first time that N. Korea has rattled its sabers rather loudly, the question is how serious are they? There's a new leader in N.Korea and this may be his first big test since taking over, that is, his dad did this type of stuff pretty regularly so is this another bark with no bite or is this really war?
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Old 03-30-2013, 10:29 AM   #32
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Well, the guys who actually attacked america and other countries, instead of just using words like the best ever commander ever were from that region. Oh yeah, and they have oil the last time I checked. They were an immediate threat to world peace and commerce.

The NK's are a proud and rascist people who believe they should be at the center of the world, even though they never have been or will be. They are led by sociopaths with no balls but plenty of bluster. I bet the fat guy has never had to do a 5 mile march with a rucksack, but man is he ready to go to war!

They believe they would rather wipe out a whole people, than not be in control. True Sociopathy at a nation state level. However, they are not capable of doing a lot of what they say, and certainly don't want to actually die trying. Freaking nightmare, but at least they are weak minded....
Well that's very interesting maybe you could enlighten me as to when Iraq attacked the United States?

Last edited by baja; 03-30-2013 at 10:31 AM..
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Old 03-30-2013, 10:36 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Willynowei View Post
You invade Iraq to protect the petro dollar, improve relations and stability in the region for our interests, and you get access to their oil reserves that you have someone manage with the interests of US companies in mind.

Iraq invasion seems to have some pretty decent reasoning behind it to me.

Whats in North Korea? Poor people. The only thing you do by invading North Korea is make China think you're trying to get American spy planes closer inland.
Wow Dick Chaney is posting here.
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Old 03-30-2013, 10:55 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by B-Large View Post
The people of North Korea are likely praying for war and regime change...
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Originally Posted by SeedReaver View Post
They don't know any better.
What Seed said. They are taught an entirely difference and completely fabricated history in North Korea. One where WE invaded them in the Korean War and they defeated us. Tons of other BS too. Basically, they are taught to hate us and to worship the leader of their nation on the level of a deity. A nation of clueless people living in an alternate reality. It's like a ****ed up version of The Truman Show.
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:00 AM   #35
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**** it... send in the SEALs to extract Un. Let democracy take its course.

We can dream.
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:21 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
I spent some months on that DMZ living in the caves and tunnels. I remember we had a pep talk from some general who told us that if the NK attacked we would have 90% casualties. The other 10% would be on leave.

I think he was trying to inspire us.

Anyway, our guys probably wouldn't make it back over the Imjin River. There are massive artillery batteries lined up behind both sides of that border. I don't know how quickly we could gain air superiority. I imagine, for the majority of the troops up there, it would be their first combat. Then, you have to wonder what China would do. They have the largest army on Earth. You always have to wonder if this isn't their puppet following their orders. Let's hope this is just the same old talk from the same old crazies.

I would hate to die in a ****ing tunnel.
N Korea is China's burden not puppet. If something goes down China is going to wake up to 25 million refugees flooding their border.
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:27 AM   #37
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YAWN... nothing to see here, just North Korea looking for a little attention. I'm sure the Neocons will be screaming for war.
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:30 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by goldengopher1976 View Post
Best line of the announcement:

They should clearly know that in the era of Marshal Kim Jong Un, the greatest-ever commander, all things are different from what they used to be in the past.
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:32 AM   #39
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Before launching their war at the US, North Korea first plans to conquer Middle Earth. They have also decided to back the Emperor Palpatine against the Alliance.
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:48 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
I spent some months on that DMZ living in the caves and tunnels. I remember we had a pep talk from some general who told us that if the NK attacked we would have 90% casualties. The other 10% would be on leave.

I think he was trying to inspire us.

Anyway, our guys probably wouldn't make it back over the Imjin River. There are massive artillery batteries lined up behind both sides of that border. I don't know how quickly we could gain air superiority. I imagine, for the majority of the troops up there, it would be their first combat. Then, you have to wonder what China would do. They have the largest army on Earth. You always have to wonder if this isn't their puppet following their orders. Let's hope this is just the same old talk from the same old crazies.

I would hate to die in a ****ing tunnel.
I think China is playing two different hands with NK. One, they want them to be a thorn in the side of the US and Japan. Also, with Russia.

But second, they don't REALLY want a nuclear-armed NK, after all Beijing is pretty close. The original Kim, Kim Il-sung never visited China, but he had a close relationship with the old USSR. Kim Jong-Il played the Russia card many times against Beijing. If he didn't like what Beijing was telling him, he'd jump on his train to Russia (they do have a common border, which no doubt has pissed Beijing off since the Treaty of Tientsin after the Second Opium War I believe it was that established that border).

There's been some interesting dynamics between Russia/China/NKorea over the years. People talk about the land grabs by Britain mostly, but Russia under the Czars also made some HUGE land grabs from China in the 19th century.

Russia also grabbed much of Manchuria after the Boxer Wars in 1901. And the USSR and China also had some major conflicts prior to WWII. So China has been trying to reduce Moscow's influence in NKorea since WWII. No doubt there are many in the Chinese leadership that would like to have their old sphere of influence in East Asia back that the Czars and the USSR took.

They currently rattle their swords at the US and Japan mostly right now, because the Russians are their temporary allies against the West.

Well, anyway, the dynamics between Russia/China/NKorea are pretty interesting reading.
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:48 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunk Monkey View Post
N Korea is China's burden not puppet. If something goes down China is going to wake up to 25 million refugees flooding their border.
China backed them up in the first war. Why not now? You think they don't want to destabilize the Sea of Japan and their economic competitors? They haven't become much more aggressive, ever adding to their huge army, building a larger navy, claiming islands? You don't think they'd love to see South Korea destroyed, a democratic country that proves the success of freedom over their brand of rigidly controlled communism? You don't think they want Taiwan back?

Don't ever assume China's motives. This outburst of Un's could alway be the move of a pawn in an opening gambit by China. They absolutely love to send out their little test balloons. Fortunately, I assume our military leaders, and South Korea's, see it the same way.
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:02 PM   #42
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:06 PM   #43
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:13 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
China backed them up in the first war. Why not now? You think they don't want to destabilize the Sea of Japan and their economic competitors? They haven't become much more aggressive, ever adding to their huge army, building a larger navy, claiming islands? You don't think they'd love to see South Korea destroyed, a democratic country that proves the success of freedom over their brand of rigidly controlled communism? You don't think they want Taiwan back?

Don't ever assume China's motives. This outburst of Un's could alway be the move of a pawn in an opening gambit by China. They absolutely love to send out their little test balloons. Fortunately, I assume our military leaders, and South Korea's, see it the same way.
Actually, China didn't get involved in the Korean Conflict until the Allied forces got close to the NK/Chinese border. At the time, Mao and the Soviets were closely aligned, but Stalin was calling most of the shots I believe.

After 1953, I believe Mao began to resent the amount of Soviet influence in the region, although their longterm strategic interests coincided. And that continued through Kruschev.

But I do agree with "This outburst of Un's could alway be the move of a pawn in an opening gambit by China". I find this whole continuing East Asia Six-Party talks deal very interesting for future geopolitical dynamics.
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:04 PM   #45
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Always have to wonder how much of this has to do with internal politics. Initially there was some thought that the new Kim having been in the West for a period might be open to actual reform - there was almost some hope when he initially took over. I wonder if this was a concern among the generals too and now Kim is being forced back into the old pattern to keep the generals happy and himself in power.

I think this shows that we have another long long wait on our hands for any real reforms in NK. It would take a charismatic leader to actually get the generals out of their old ways of thinking and this young Kim does not inspire much confidence does he?
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:07 PM   #46
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The oppression of NK needs to come to a close..eff it lets do this
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:19 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
China backed them up in the first war. Why not now? You think they don't want to destabilize the Sea of Japan and their economic competitors? They haven't become much more aggressive, ever adding to their huge army, building a larger navy, claiming islands? You don't think they'd love to see South Korea destroyed, a democratic country that proves the success of freedom over their brand of rigidly controlled communism? You don't think they want Taiwan back?

Don't ever assume China's motives. This outburst of Un's could alway be the move of a pawn in an opening gambit by China. They absolutely love to send out their little test balloons. Fortunately, I assume our military leaders, and South Korea's, see it the same way.
Dude, pick up a ****ing book, or go visit China, you're wayyyyyy off.

Last edited by Willynowei; 03-30-2013 at 01:23 PM..
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:19 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Cito Pelon View Post
I think China is playing two different hands with NK. One, they want them to be a thorn in the side of the US and Japan. Also, with Russia.

But second, they don't REALLY want a nuclear-armed NK, after all Beijing is pretty close. The original Kim, Kim Il-sung never visited China, but he had a close relationship with the old USSR. Kim Jong-Il played the Russia card many times against Beijing. If he didn't like what Beijing was telling him, he'd jump on his train to Russia (they do have a common border, which no doubt has pissed Beijing off since the Treaty of Tientsin after the Second Opium War I believe it was that established that border).

There's been some interesting dynamics between Russia/China/NKorea over the years. People talk about the land grabs by Britain mostly, but Russia under the Czars also made some HUGE land grabs from China in the 19th century.

Russia also grabbed much of Manchuria after the Boxer Wars in 1901. And the USSR and China also had some major conflicts prior to WWII. So China has been trying to reduce Moscow's influence in NKorea since WWII. No doubt there are many in the Chinese leadership that would like to have their old sphere of influence in East Asia back that the Czars and the USSR took.

They currently rattle their swords at the US and Japan mostly right now, because the Russians are their temporary allies against the West.

Well, anyway, the dynamics between Russia/China/NKorea are pretty interesting reading.
Russia lost control of most of Manchuria to Japan around the time of world war I, they gained back control of parts of it in 1925 but lost it to Japan in world war 2. The Russians took it back in 1945 and the Chinese communists took it over in 1949 and used it as the power base to launch the Chinese revolution.

Kim Il Sung spend a lot of time in China, he grew up in Manchuria, he was a member of the chinese communist party in the 1930s and fought in chinese guerrilla groups against the Japanese in Manchuria, he later became a political officer of the chinese communist party.

Kim Il Sung had pretty tight relations with Mao, but after his death and the reforms of Deng Xiaopeng relations with China deteriorated as China no longer had any need to trade with North Korea when they opened up trades with Europe and especially North America.

Neither China nor Russia have strong political influence in North Korea these days, China has closed their borders completely to North Korea. China has an interest in North Korea keeping South Korea from becoming a dominant asian economy, but China has no interest in an all out war, firstly North Korea is very close to China and should it come to nuclear war the fallout will be felt in China, it will also shut down a lot of shipping which China relies heavily on for imports and exports.
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:27 PM   #49
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I thought Rodman had this taken care of.
That is why North Korea is so pissed off... They thought Rodman was Obama.
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:31 PM   #50
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What China wants is status quo in NK, its the only thing that makes sense, China wants the oil off of Senkaku, they want Taiwan. What they don't want is ownership of a chunk of dirt that currently buffers them against American allies. And as Cito says, they all hate each other (Russia, China, NK), in fact they all hate each other infinitely more than they dislike America (whom they really love, except when the U.S. is busy pitting everyone against each other to avoid the establishment of true hegemony by any of them).

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