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Old 03-29-2013, 11:32 AM   #201
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Jeremy Beal is a goonie. The only people pumping him up are OU fans. I had the pleasure of having his uncle go off on me at BT last year before the draft because I said the Broncos would be wise to get a guy at DE who was actually worthy of making the roster.
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Old 03-29-2013, 12:44 PM   #202
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Good discussion on the Doom replacement topic over at IAOFM today.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...tank-carradine
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Old 03-29-2013, 12:52 PM   #203
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Comparing Carradine to Ayers is absurd.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:09 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
No.

The Broncos can't afford to spend more than $3M on a situational player. Look for the Broncos to draft one of these four players at #28:

1. Damontre Moore
2. Cornelius Carradine
3. Margus Hunt
4. Alex Okafor

As I've stated previously, I would use a 4th round pick to trade up for the 20-year old Moore. The Broncos worked out the Eastern Bloc this week, so don't count him out.
I don't know if that's a good idea. I would rather pick up a cheap veteran and be able to pick the best player on the board during the draft. I'm not a fan of picking for need and hoping the one we're targeting drops to us or trade the farm to jump up to pick one guy.
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:29 AM   #205
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I don't know if that's a good idea. I would rather pick up a cheap veteran and be able to pick the best player on the board during the draft. I'm not a fan of picking for need and hoping the one we're targeting drops to us or trade the farm to jump up to pick one guy.
Can't think of any guys with more value at #28, than any of those 4.
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:33 AM   #206
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Good discussion on the Doom replacement topic over at IAOFM today.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...tank-carradine
i love the Jenkins idea. i've been tempted to mock him to the Broncos in the 3rd but i'm not sure he'll last that long. coming into the season he was supposed to be "the" DL from FSU.
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Old 03-30-2013, 12:45 AM   #207
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1. Damontre Moore is only 20, and had 85 tackles, and 12.5 sacks.
2. Cornelius Carradine had 80 tackles, and 11 sacks in a shortened season (due to injury), he's got prototypical size and athleticism at DE (though he's now 24).

Those are two guys right there that Denver would not hesitate to pull the trigger on at #28. Neither would present a drop-off from Dumervil. Both have the talent for 60+ tackles, and 8+ sacks perennially in the NFL.

Last edited by pricejj; 03-30-2013 at 12:47 AM..
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:41 AM   #208
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Good discussion on the Doom replacement topic over at IAOFM today.

http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/bron...tank-carradine
Those guys are copying exactly what I have been trying to hammer home on the Mane (to no avail).

Let me reiterate:
1. Terrance Knighton was a waste of money. Neither Knighton, nor Vickerson can collapse the pocket.
2. Wolfe is playing out of position (and is better used inside for his ability to collapse the pocket).

This draft is chock full of strongside DE's (almost too many to count). Datone Jones, Alex Okafor, Tank Carradine, Margus Hunt, etc. The Broncos would have been better served to keep Dumervil, draft a strongside DE, and move Wolfe inside.

1. Not only would you keep your Pro Bowl DE (Dumervil)
2. You would also add pass-rush presence to the inside permanently (with Wolfe at UT)
3. And you would add a quicker player (than Wolfe) at DE, who could pass-rush from the outside (Wolfe can't)

The Broncos DL would be near-unstoppable with Dumervil, Wolfe, Vickerson, Margus Hunt (or other), and Von Miller. It seems both Peyton Manning and JDR have WAY too much input on personnel decisions...and it is to the detriment of the team. I don't think Dumervil would have been cut, if Manning wasn't trying to openly court Freeney a month ago.
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Old 03-30-2013, 02:05 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
Those guys are copying exactly what I have been trying to hammer home on the Mane (to no avail).

Let me reiterate:
1. Terrance Knighton was a waste of money. Neither Knighton, nor Vickerson can collapse the pocket.
2. Wolfe is playing out of position (and is better used inside for his ability to collapse the pocket).

This draft is chock full of strongside DE's (almost too many to count). Datone Jones, Alex Okafor, Tank Carradine, Margus Hunt, etc. The Broncos would have been better served to keep Dumervil, draft a strongside DE, and move Wolfe inside.

1. Not only would you keep your Pro Bowl DE (Dumervil)
2. You would also add pass-rush presence to the inside permanently (with Wolfe at UT)
3. And you would add a quicker player (than Wolfe) at DE, who could pass-rush from the outside (Wolfe can't)

The Broncos DL would be near-unstoppable with Dumervil, Wolfe, Vickerson, Margus Hunt (or other), and Von Miller. It seems both Peyton Manning and JDR have WAY too much input on personnel decisions...and it is to the detriment of the team. I don't think Dumervil would have been cut, if Manning wasn't trying to openly court Freeney a month ago.
Good points. Also, your probably right about Manning courting Freeney, that is about when the talk of getting Doom to restructure started. Until then, nobody was talking about a need to restructure or cut Doom, that kind of came out of left field.

I think that people trying to talk themselves into a rookie or..choke...Beal as adeqaute replacements are fooling themselves. Much tougher to get a good pass rush against the LT. Hopefully we can be creative with blitz packages to make up for some of that, but I don't recall doing much blitzing last year.
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Old 03-30-2013, 04:19 AM   #210
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Can't think of any guys with more value at #28, than any of those 4.
Not saying they don't have value at #28. But not not signing a Vet FA at that spot will be human nature force you to pick 1 of those guys and most of the time it makes for a bad choice.
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Old 03-30-2013, 10:25 AM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
Those guys are copying exactly what I have been trying to hammer home on the Mane (to no avail).

Let me reiterate:
1. Terrance Knighton was a waste of money. Neither Knighton, nor Vickerson can collapse the pocket.
2. Wolfe is playing out of position (and is better used inside for his ability to collapse the pocket).

This draft is chock full of strongside DE's (almost too many to count). Datone Jones, Alex Okafor, Tank Carradine, Margus Hunt, etc. The Broncos would have been better served to keep Dumervil, draft a strongside DE, and move Wolfe inside.

1. Not only would you keep your Pro Bowl DE (Dumervil)
2. You would also add pass-rush presence to the inside permanently (with Wolfe at UT)
3. And you would add a quicker player (than Wolfe) at DE, who could pass-rush from the outside (Wolfe can't)

The Broncos DL would be near-unstoppable with Dumervil, Wolfe, Vickerson, Margus Hunt (or other), and Von Miller. It seems both Peyton Manning and JDR have WAY too much input on personnel decisions...and it is to the detriment of the team. I don't think Dumervil would have been cut, if Manning wasn't trying to openly court Freeney a month ago.
You can't just throw money everywhere. Broncos needed Dumervil to restructure, or he is gone. Beginning of March Broncos wanted Dumervil to restructure. In today's NFL, it is hard to keep so many players that cost a lot of money. Dumervil is a casualty of the salary cap, and also someone I believe can be replaceable.
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Old 03-30-2013, 10:36 AM   #212
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1. Damontre Moore is only 20, and had 85 tackles, and 12.5 sacks.
2. Cornelius Carradine had 80 tackles, and 11 sacks in a shortened season (due to injury), he's got prototypical size and athleticism at DE (though he's now 24).

Those are two guys right there that Denver would not hesitate to pull the trigger on at #28. Neither would present a drop-off from Dumervil. Both have the talent for 60+ tackles, and 8+ sacks perennially in the NFL.
I guarantee neither of those players get 60+ 8+ their rookie year. No way. Ain't gonna happen. Sorry. maybe down the road they could but not in the present. Manning isnt going to be here down the road though. Doesnt have time to wait for players to develop. It's time to face the fact we are going to be weaker at dumervils position the next year or 2. Just the way it is with the FA market being weak at that position.
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Old 03-30-2013, 10:44 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
Those guys are copying exactly what I have been trying to hammer home on the Mane (to no avail).
Let me reiterate:
1. Terrance Knighton was a waste of money. Neither Knighton, nor Vickerson can collapse the pocket.
2. Wolfe is playing out of position (and is better used inside for his ability to collapse the pocket).

This draft is chock full of strongside DE's (almost too many to count). Datone Jones, Alex Okafor, Tank Carradine, Margus Hunt, etc. The Broncos would have been better served to keep Dumervil, draft a strongside DE, and move Wolfe inside.

1. Not only would you keep your Pro Bowl DE (Dumervil)
2. You would also add pass-rush presence to the inside permanently (with Wolfe at UT)
3. And you would add a quicker player (than Wolfe) at DE, who could pass-rush from the outside (Wolfe can't)

The Broncos DL would be near-unstoppable with Dumervil, Wolfe, Vickerson, Margus Hunt (or other), and Von Miller. It seems both Peyton Manning and JDR have WAY too much input on personnel decisions...and it is to the detriment of the team. I don't think Dumervil would have been cut, if Manning wasn't trying to openly court Freeney a month ago.
That's not what I get out of the article but whatever. You keep saying the same thing while not listening to anyone else. Then you read an article that does not support your opinion yet you claim it does.
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:02 AM   #214
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Doom knew the Broncos would want to restructure his contract as far back as the Pro Bowl. This was not some spur of the moment decision brought on by Peyton Mannning but a decision made with years of future planning involved.

The FO does not work in the moment. Sullivan is building the cap for the next couple years since it will be stable and not assumed to go up til 2015

Doom was the 2nd highest paid defender in 2012. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out Miller needs to be the highest paid Bronco defender not Dumbberville
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:28 AM   #215
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I guarantee neither of those players get 60+ 8+ their rookie year. No way. Ain't gonna happen. Sorry. maybe down the road they could but not in the present. Manning isnt going to be here down the road though. Doesnt have time to wait for players to develop. It's time to face the fact we are going to be weaker at dumervils position the next year or 2. Just the way it is with the FA market being weak at that position.
Moore and Jones are going to do very well in the pros and pretty well in their rookie years. too much is put in their workouts, they were never "freak" athletes, they play fairly fast on tape but IMO Moore will be the best pure DE pass rusher from this draft. a few of the tweener LB/DE types will get a ton of sacks as well but Moore will be the most productive pure DE.
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:35 AM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
Those guys are copying exactly what I have been trying to hammer home on the Mane (to no avail).

Let me reiterate:
1. Terrance Knighton was a waste of money. Neither Knighton, nor Vickerson can collapse the pocket.
2. Wolfe is playing out of position (and is better used inside for his ability to collapse the pocket).

This draft is chock full of strongside DE's (almost too many to count). Datone Jones, Alex Okafor, Tank Carradine, Margus Hunt, etc. The Broncos would have been better served to keep Dumervil, draft a strongside DE, and move Wolfe inside.

1. Not only would you keep your Pro Bowl DE (Dumervil)
2. You would also add pass-rush presence to the inside permanently (with Wolfe at UT)
3. And you would add a quicker player (than Wolfe) at DE, who could pass-rush from the outside (Wolfe can't)

The Broncos DL would be near-unstoppable with Dumervil, Wolfe, Vickerson, Margus Hunt (or other), and Von Miller. It seems both Peyton Manning and JDR have WAY too much input on personnel decisions...and it is to the detriment of the team. I don't think Dumervil would have been cut, if Manning wasn't trying to openly court Freeney a month ago.
so, we needed a DT and have for years, they finally spend on one who was one of the better in FA and he's a waste of money?
he's a big 330 NT type of clogger who can help the outside rushers not face double teams all the time and stop the run.
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:42 AM   #217
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Moore and Jones are going to do very well in the pros and pretty well in their rookie years. too much is put in their workouts, they were never "freak" athletes, they play fairly fast on tape but IMO Moore will be the best pure DE pass rusher from this draft. a few of the tweener LB/DE types will get a ton of sacks as well but Moore will be the most productive pure DE.
They could be great in the future. But what kind of instant impact can a low round rookie make on a team that has basically a 1 year(2 at best) window to win a superbowl? I really think it was win now last year. And now that they didnt make it the picture is being drawn up a bit different. Preparing for life after manning. When manning was acquired I estimated he had 2 good years of football left before you see a considerable drop in production/retirement. If they were truly in win now they wouldve kept dumervil.
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:49 AM   #218
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They could be great in the future. But what kind of instant impact can a low round rookie make on a team that has basically a 1 year(2 at best) window to win a superbowl? I really think it was win now last year. And now that they didnt make it the picture is being drawn up a bit different. Preparing for life after manning. When manning was acquired I estimated he had 2 good years of football left before you see a considerable drop in production/retirement. If they were truly in win now they wouldve kept dumervil.
How can you say that when they signed a bunch of fa's this year to two year contracts? The window to them is 2+ years with manning.
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:53 AM   #219
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pricejj has lost it.
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:00 PM   #220
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pricejj has lost it.
Sadly, it does appear to be so.
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:07 PM   #221
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pricejj has lost it.
He lost me the day he claimed Rahim Moore had run responsibility on the big gaffe play and it was all tony Carter's fault
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:09 PM   #222
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Good points. Also, your probably right about Manning courting Freeney, that is about when the talk of getting Doom to restructure started. Until then, nobody was talking about a need to restructure or cut Doom, that kind of came out of left field.

I think that people trying to talk themselves into a rookie or..choke...Beal as adeqaute replacements are fooling themselves. Much tougher to get a good pass rush against the LT. Hopefully we can be creative with blitz packages to make up for some of that, but I don't recall doing much blitzing last year.
If you think the doom restructure came as a result of manning wanting freeney, you've lost it too
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:20 PM   #223
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How can you say that when they signed a bunch of fa's this year to two year contracts? The window to them is 2+ years with manning.
The window when he got here was 3. Anything more is wishful thinking that he will find the fountain of youth. This is year 2. Which makes it 2 years at best to win. Elway last year said it was win now. This year he's saying its not. They were really banking on the SB appearance being last year. Those short term deals have less to do with winning now and more to do with long term positioning. The dumervil situation to me imposes the win now mode was last year. Past. Not present.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...ness-nfl-deals

Last edited by Drunken.Broncoholic; 03-30-2013 at 01:24 PM..
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:49 PM   #224
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The window when he got here was 3. Anything more is wishful thinking that he will find the fountain of youth. This is year 2. Which makes it 2 years at best to win. Elway last year said it was win now. This year he's saying its not. They were really banking on the SB appearance being last year. Those short term deals have less to do with winning now and more to do with long term positioning. The dumervil situation to me imposes the win now mode was last year. Past. Not present.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...ness-nfl-deals
They are in a win-now-without-mortgaging-the-future mode. The deals have to do with winning now AND future positioning. Otherwise why make the signings?

I don't see why Manning wouldn't be able to play into his 40's. He's a cerebral qb so the physical degradation is less important, and his skills will get better as he regenerates the nerves. I hope brock waits awhile because a manning team is a Super Bowl contender every year...regardless of what some bums here say
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:55 PM   #225
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They are in a win-now-without-mortgaging-the-future mode. The deals have to do with winning now AND future positioning. Otherwise why make the signings?

I don't see why Manning wouldn't be able to play into his 40's. He's a cerebral qb so the physical degradation is less important, and his skills will get better as he regenerates the nerves. I hope brock waits awhile because a manning team is a Super Bowl contender every year...regardless of what some bums here say
13 and 14 for sure

15 and 16 depends on health but, could easily see him retire either year

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