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Old 03-29-2013, 05:30 AM   #26
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Hey, if he'd said... from the moment contract negotiations started... that he didn't want to take a pay cut and wanted to go elsewhere when (not "if"; everyone knew that $12 mil contract was gonna be re-evaluated) he was asked to "take one for the team", I'd have zero problem with that. He's not irreplaceable... there was no danger that the team would consider applying the franchise tag to him rather than Clady. I have absolutely no issue with a player wanting to maximize his income whenever he can (player careers can be jeopardized or even ended on any given "down"); however, I believe he owed a bit of candor and honesty in his dealings with the team.
You can't cut a guy to void his contract and then franchise him.
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Old 03-29-2013, 05:35 AM   #27
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Hey, if he'd said... from the moment contract negotiations started... that he didn't want to take a pay cut and wanted to go elsewhere when (not "if"; everyone knew that $12 mil contract was gonna be re-evaluated) he was asked to "take one for the team", I'd have zero problem with that. He's not irreplaceable... there was no danger that the team would consider applying the franchise tag to him rather than Clady. I have absolutely no issue with a player wanting to maximize his income whenever he can (player careers can be jeopardized or even ended on any given "down"); however, I believe he owed a bit of candor and honesty in his dealings with the team.

No, a replacement won't be as good as Dumervil was. But whoever he is, he won't be expecting a $12 million payday as "his due" either.
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It's contract negotiation, no one ever speaks the truth to the public in those cases. Everyone (player, agent, team) want to look good to the public.
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Old 03-29-2013, 05:37 AM   #28
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You can't cut a guy to void his contract and then franchise him.
No sh*t, Sherlock... not to mention, teams don't get 2 franchise tags and we'd already used ours on Clady. Which means, Dumervil could have just said "I want out rather than take a pay cut". Honesty would have been the honorable route for him to take.
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Old 03-29-2013, 05:41 AM   #29
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Blue

It's contract negotiation, no one ever speaks the truth to the public in those cases. Everyone (player, agent, team) want to look good to the public.
The Broncos/Dumervil negotiation is a classic example then... for "what not to do". Nobody came out better than before. The Broncos have to take a cap hit and try to replace a key defensive player; Dumervil looks like a lying butthurt conniver and got an even bigger pay cut anyway; and the agent got fired.
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Old 03-29-2013, 06:00 AM   #30
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The choice he made (taking less money to go to another team) is all the evidence one really needs to reach a logical conclusion that Dumervil and his agent actively attempted to snooker the Broncos into honoring the $12 million contract.
That makes zero sense. If he was part of a plot to sucker Denver into paying him the $12 million, then his obvious goal was to get the maximum amount of dollars possible. That means he would have accepted the Broncos better offer later on. The fact that he took the Ravens lesser offer suggests that he was basing his decision off hurt feelings and ego rather than duplicitous greed.
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Old 03-29-2013, 06:17 AM   #31
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I agree that there were a lot of other things that factored into his decision. He mentioned Manning's health, for example. No doubt proximity to his home in Miami is a factor. The Ravens just won the SB so he probably thinks they're going to be competitive for some time. I personally think he was butthurt at the Broncos and that was one of many reasons that factored into his decision. He probably didn't want to have to see the men who "didn't appreciate him" every week coming into work.

Thanks for the fond memories, Dumervil. I will miss your insane fumble-to-sack ratio and your pressure off the edge. I will not miss your offsides penalties, poor run defense and lack of production in big games or against good teams. I will, for the most part, look fondly on you, though.
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Old 03-29-2013, 06:29 AM   #32
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Doom is a better fit as a 3-4 LB were he had his monster year of sacks. I think that must of had something to do with his decision.
Yup. As already discussed in the pre-existing Dumervil threads (in which the article linked by the OP has already been linked and discussed) this is probably the #2 factor behind pride/ego. I think Doom will do just fine opposite Suggs and with that excellent D-line they have.
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Old 03-29-2013, 06:43 AM   #33
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Is Elvis a ring of honor player after all the dust settles? He was on pace but I'd lean to say no at this point.
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Old 03-29-2013, 07:04 AM   #34
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Here's a different take on it:

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...Baltimore’s offer provided significantly more protection via prorated bonus money consequences if cut. The Ravens situation provides much more opportunity to Dumervil to play out at least three years and earn the full $17 million plus an incentive possibility to earn more. Denver is not going to present that opportunity. It’s the better opportunity for Dumervil in Baltimore and he was smart to take the offer even if the basic numbers state that he could earn less money.
http://overthecap.com/did-elvis-dume...-in-baltimore/
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Old 03-29-2013, 07:04 AM   #35
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The butthurt is still strong.

So what stage of grief are you weasels at? Is "butthurt" a stage?
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:09 AM   #36
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No sh*t, Sherlock... not to mention, teams don't get 2 franchise tags and we'd already used ours on Clady. Which means, Dumervil could have just said "I want out rather than take a pay cut". Honesty would have been the honorable route for him to take.
Well you made it sound like we never would've decided to use the tag on Dumervil. In reality we had no ability to franchise him for 3 more seasons.

And Doom did say he wanted cut earlier in the week. During a very narrow free agency window, we held him for as long as humanly possible under a contract we had no intention of paying. I think you need a new definition of Honorable.
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:35 AM   #37
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:45 AM   #38
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Don't forget that out of his 11 sacks several came when we were up big in the second half with the game out of reach and all he had to do was tee off and not even think about the run. I don't have the time to go through each game and see when each sack came but I'm willing to bet he only had 5-6 sacks last year at points where the game was close. That is nothing special at all, especially when you consider he is a liability against the run. For the 100th time, we won't miss his play or the attitude he would have brought to the locker room this year.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelo...elvis-dumervil
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:51 AM   #39
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Don't forget that out of his 11 sacks several came when we were up big in the second half with the game out of reach and all he had to do was tee off and not even think about the run. I don't have the time to go through each game and see when each sack came but I'm willing to bet he only had 5-6 sacks last year at points where the game was close. That is nothing special at all, especially when you consider he is a liability against the run. For the 100th time, we won't miss his play or the attitude he would have brought to the locker room this year.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelo...elvis-dumervil
I lied. I just went through all the games he had a sack in and I came up with 3.5 sacks for the whole season at points where the score was close. The other 7.5 came when we were up by 2 scores or more late in the game, or up by more than 2 scores earlier in the game.
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:55 AM   #40
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Don't forget that out of his 11 sacks several came when we were up big in the second half with the game out of reach and all he had to do was tee off and not even think about the run. I don't have the time to go through each game and see when each sack came but I'm willing to bet he only had 5-6 sacks last year at points where the game was close. That is nothing special at all, especially when you consider he is a liability against the run. For the 100th time, we won't miss his play or the attitude he would have brought to the locker room this year.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelo...elvis-dumervil
You could say the same thing about Von in terms of sacks when we had a game put away. Maybe not to the EXACT degree, but still. Be fair here.
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:03 AM   #41
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I lied. I just went through all the games he had a sack in and I came up with 3.5 sacks for the whole season at points where the score was close. The other 7.5 came when we were up by 2 scores or more late in the game, or up by more than 2 scores earlier in the game.
Doesn't that magnify how the team should be built though? You want those kinds of rushers when your offense is primed to score 30+ points a game. Get up 2 scores and of course it takes the opposing running game off the field. That's why this teams needs exactly that. Pin the ears back and bull rush the QB who's forced to pass being down in the game. Now teams will have QBs with all day to throw. Go back through all those games and see where the QB was rushed into a mistake because of dumervil, ie throwing it away, bad incompletes.
A 3rd down incomplete is just as good as a sack

Last edited by Drunken.Broncoholic; 03-29-2013 at 09:07 AM..
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:14 AM   #42
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You could say the same thing about Von in terms of sacks when we had a game put away. Maybe not to the EXACT degree, but still. Be fair here.
Von Miller didn't leave us to go to another team for less money. I'm trying to say we were smart not to give into his demands and give him more money than he is worth. I'm also saying other people (Wolfe, Ayers, draft pick) can combine for 9-12 sacks if we are playing ahead like we were last year and we won't miss him.

Also, Von Miller does everything well including playing the run. Dumervil is a one trick pony. Rush the passer, that's it. Doesn't drop into coverage, can't play the run well.
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:16 AM   #43
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Doesn't that magnify how the team should be built though? You want those kinds of rushers when your offense is primed to score 30+ points a game. Get up 2 scores and of course it takes the opposing running game off the field. That's why this teams needs exactly that. Pin the ears back and bull rush the QB who's forced to pass being down in the game. Now teams will have QBs with all day to throw. Go back through all those games and see where the QB was rushed into a mistake because of dumervil, ie throwing it away, bad incompletes.
A 3rd down incomplete is just as good as a sack
I agree. And it is my opinion that the players on the field in his place will combine for the same number of sacks Dumervil had because we will be playing ahead.
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:20 AM   #44
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I agree. And it is my opinion that the players on the field in his place will combine for the same number of sacks Dumervil had because we will be playing ahead.
I sure hope so. Cause right now I don't think any of them equal as many dumervil had in a season as they have for their careers. Ayers has shown me nothing. Haven't seen enough of beal or Jackson. But neither has the capability IMO to get 12-15 sacks. The answer IMO has yet to join the roster. Without a threat from that side teams will now just gameplan against Von instead of having to deal with both sides. Double teams. Forcing him into pass coverage etc
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:27 AM   #45
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I lied. I just went through all the games he had a sack in and I came up with 3.5 sacks for the whole season at points where the score was close. The other 7.5 came when we were up by 2 scores or more late in the game, or up by more than 2 scores earlier in the game.
You do remember we were a 13-3 team. Pretty tough to be a top-5 team and and not be up 2 scores or more a good percentage of the time.
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:28 AM   #46
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Von Miller didn't leave us to go to another team for less money. I'm trying to say we were smart not to give into his demands and give him more money than he is worth. I'm also saying other people (Wolfe, Ayers, draft pick) can combine for 9-12 sacks if we are playing ahead like we were last year and we won't miss him.

Also, Von Miller does everything well including playing the run. Dumervil is a one trick pony. Rush the passer, that's it. Doesn't drop into coverage, can't play the run well.
Hey, I was just responding to your claim that Doom got sacks in garbage time or with a lead. The fact is, every pass rusher tees off at that time also. I never claimed the rest of what you said.

Your post was disingenuous.

Last edited by Rabb; 03-29-2013 at 09:31 AM..
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:39 AM   #47
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:40 AM   #48
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Hey, I was just responding to your claim that Doom got sacks in garbage time or with a lead. The fact is, every pass rusher tees off at that time also. I never claimed the rest of what you said.

Your post was disingenuous.
I don't think so. My point was simply he's not worth $8+ million a year when the only thing he can do is rush the passer and even then he only got 11 sacks, 7 of which came when the game was over and he could pin his ears back and go.

Other players (Von Miller) are worth that much because they can play run defense, drop into coverage, etc.

Just my opinion, take it for what it's worth.

If you are only good at one thing which is the case with Doom you better be the best in the league at it if you want a team to spend that kind of money on you. Doom isn't
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:58 AM   #49
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I don't think so. My point was simply he's not worth $8+ million a year when the only thing he can do is rush the passer and even then he only got 11 sacks, 7 of which came when the game was over and he could pin his ears back and go.
How the eff can you argue that the guy who led the DL in tackles is only good for nabbing sacks.

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Old 03-29-2013, 10:18 AM   #50
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How the eff can you argue that the guy who led the DL in tackles is only good for nabbing sacks.
The best part about this is one of us will be right and one of us will be wrong. I'm saying we won't miss him, time will tell.
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