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Old 03-28-2013, 02:11 PM   #51
houghtam
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Here in lays my feelings of helpfulness.

Why don't you say to Janet Napolitano what you say to me?

Answer the question Janet

No DHS buys 2 B bullets and you give them a pass.

That's the Department of Homeland Security doing this. Are you expecting invasion? If not what is this mega purchase for? Why won't DHS answer the question from 8 separate congressman?
Why don't I ask Napolitano? I thought I made it clear. I don't see any problems with it. I simply said its reasonable to ask. You apparently never thought it may also be reasonable not to answer, considering some of the theories out there. I would imagine the people in the government have better things to do than entertain every crackpot theory whose author deems it reasonable.

Remember, you thought it was "reasonable" for the state of Arizona to explore leaving Obama off the ballot because they had questions about his birth certificate, and then quickly disappeared when I introduced you to the full faith and credit clause of the US constitution.

Reasonable for one does not necessarily equal reasonable for another, baja.
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Old 03-28-2013, 02:15 PM   #52
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Aparently
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Old 03-28-2013, 02:30 PM   #53
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Aparently
What's the cutoff for crazy, baja?

Obviously you can't believe every conspiracy theory. So what makes you think the US Government should address this theory and not, say, the face-eating zombie in Florida which was caused by a biological accident at an Illinois University?

Should the president create a new cabinet member, the Secretary of Explaining Unnatural Phenomena, with a whole task force dedicated to rooting out every crackpot theory out there and dismantling it?

What is the cutoff for crazy?

Is there anything that anyone does that doesn't have some trumped up ulterior motive behind it?
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Old 03-28-2013, 02:44 PM   #54
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YOU DECIDE FOR YOURSELF


I'll say this, getting justification from DHS for the purchase of 2 B bullets with a high number of them being hollow point certainly is not anywhere close to the cutoff.

What I find over the top is you trusting DHS has a good reason for this head scratching purchase even in the light of their arrogant dismissal of the congress of the USA that is seeking answers. Arn't you even curious?
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Old 03-28-2013, 02:55 PM   #55
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Probably equipment returning from Iraq and headed toward mothballing in the desert somewhere.
You are exactly right. They will be overhauled or demil in either Army depot or contractor plant and then stored in the high desert if they are needed again.
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Old 03-28-2013, 02:55 PM   #56
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YOU DECIDE FOR YOURSELF


I'll say this, getting justification from DHS for the purchase of 2 B bullets with a high number of them being hollow point certainly is not anywhere close to the cutoff.

What I find over the top is you trusting DHS has a good reason for this head scratching purchase even in the light of their arrogant dismissal of the congress of the USA that is seeking answers. Arn't you even curious?
Not really, considering the research I've done on the subject that hasn't involved going to conspiracy theory websites.

Oh!

Now I'm part of the conspiracy.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:02 PM   #57
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Not really, considering the research I've done on the subject that hasn't involved going to conspiracy theory websites.

Oh!

Now I'm part of the conspiracy.
Yes you are bound to uncover a conspiracy by going to non conspiracy web sites.


So you must have the answer to why DHS purchased 2B bullets. Please share it.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:26 PM   #58
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Yes you are bound to uncover a conspiracy by going to non conspiracy web sites.


So you must have the answer to why DHS purchased 2B bullets. Please share it.
Fed's already answered it. It's a quote, it's 1.6B, and it's UP TO, over the next 5 years.

Now you answer this question.

IF the government were trying to take us over, which is easier to believe? Explain your answer.

A) The government is PUBLICLY buying up billions of rounds of ammunition, carting around military vehicles, and has been at work for years in order to wage an open war on its citizenry

OR

B) The government is secretly creating a bio-toxin in a secret laboratory at an Illinois university which will cause people to turn on and cannibalize each other, thus reducing the population and the resistance, and this bio-toxin was accidentally released, causing people to eat each others' faces off

B is the obvious choice. Why aren't you outraged and demanding answers about this?

Why do you think the Nazis built the death camps? It's because after hundreds of thousands of bullets, they realized that shooting people is a terribly ineffective way to kill someone. It's a lot easier to pass laws marginalizing certain people, get the majority to turn on them, and they do the dirty work for you.

Now, let's look at the big picture. I'll reiterate what I said in another post. IF there is an armed uprising in this country, it won't be the liberals coming to take away your guns. Nor will it be the government waging war against the people who pay its bills. It will be a small segment of the population who uses fear to manipulate public opinion, and who then use that public opinion to affect policy. You can already see it in the attempts to take voting rights away from people who deserve every right to vote in the name of defeating a voter fraud boogeyman that doesn't exist. You can already hear it in the rhetoric of posters on this very board, blaming brown people, women and gays for the troubles the nation faces.

If you're truly concerned about who is taking over this country, stay away from the conspiracy websites. Do some real research. Look into what actually caused events like the Holocaust (assuming you believe it happened). I guarantee you if you take the same classes I have...if you study, say, the way anti-Semites in Germany described "the Jewish problem", maybe you would be a little less outspoken on how evil the government is, and more outspoken on how evil people like errand, txtebow, Dramanyuk, cutthemdown, Dr. Broncenstein, Meck77 and Pony Boy are.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:36 PM   #59
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Just because people have a different political view than you doesn't make them evil.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:38 PM   #60
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Look Houghtam either you see what is going on or you don't. No amount a bander between us will change that. I have linked several excellent films in my thread Fantasy? please see them for your answers. That is you best opportunity to understand the scope of this.

I think you are using this forum to display what you believe to be your cleverness and high intellect. That's fine if that is what you are into I just don't have the time to play along with you. This is the third of fourth time I have referenced you to the Fantasy thread. The films there are so much more comprehensive than I could ever be with my posts here.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:43 PM   #61
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I think you are using this forum to display what you believe to be your cleverness and high intellect.
He's in the movie theater industry. Don't question him.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:44 PM   #62
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Just because people have a different political view than you doesn't make them evil.
Yes - it DOES. It's part of liberal tolerance.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:45 PM   #63
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YOU DECIDE FOR YOURSELF


I'll say this, getting justification from DHS for the purchase of 2 B bullets with a high number of them being hollow point certainly is not anywhere close to the cutoff.

What I find over the top is you trusting DHS has a good reason for this head scratching purchase even in the light of their arrogant dismissal of the congress of the USA that is seeking answers. Arn't you even curious?
DHS is a garbage agency and should have never been founded to begin with. It's like with mass shootings - a horrible overreaction.

As far as bullet purchases go, I see conflicting stories. Some say the feds have their own plant that makes it, some say they buy it from mainstream manufacturers. I haven't looked into it enough to make a real decision. Clearly the horse crap talk about gun bans is at least in part driving the run on weapons and bullets.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:52 PM   #64
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Just because people have a different political view than you doesn't make them evil.
No, but using coded language in order to sew fear and hatred, knowing or hoping it will affect policy, is. Saying black people are genetically inferior to white people is not a political view, nor is it a valid scientific theory.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:00 PM   #65
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DHS is a garbage agency and should have never been founded to begin with. It's like with mass shootings - a horrible overreaction.

As far as bullet purchases go, I see conflicting stories. Some say the feds have their own plant that makes it, some say they buy it from mainstream manufacturers. I haven't looked into it enough to make a real decision. Clearly the horse crap talk about gun bans is at least in part driving the run on weapons and bullets.
The plant is owned by the Government (Army) and leased out to the manufacturer (ATK). It is part of the national industrial reserve system set up just after WWII.
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Old 03-28-2013, 05:45 PM   #66
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Giving you another chance Baja: How much ammunition does the DHS need for a year?

Think for yourself. Engage your brain. It's a matter of grade school level reasoning and math -- nothing fancy.

Linking to videos is not thinking for yourself. It's entirely the opposite of thinking for yourself. So: will you think for yourself?
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:00 PM   #67
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Yes - it DOES. It's part of liberal tolerance.
I can think of no excuse for tolerating ignorance. Especially the brand of willful ignorance practiced by the Right.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:10 PM   #68
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Giving you another chance Baja: How much ammunition does the DHS need for a year?

Think for yourself. Engage your brain. It's a matter of grade school level reasoning and math -- nothing fancy.

Linking to videos is not thinking for yourself. It's entirely the opposite of thinking for yourself. So: will you think for yourself?
How can I ever thank you for this gracious EXTRA chance. YOU ARE TRULY A KIND AND HUMBLE MAN.

let's see, the entire US force during the height of the Iraq war used 6,000,000 rounds a month so if the DHS finds itself in a war they will have enough bullets to fight on for 28 years

and if you think this is for target practice why hollow point rounds which was a large part of the purchase. They cost twice as much as steel jacket rounds so there goes the money saving argument.

BTW hollow point rounds are outlawed for use in war by global agreement. so what ever will the DHS use them for?
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:15 PM   #69
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How can I ever thank you for this gracious EXTRA chance. YOU ARE TRULY A KIND AND HUMBLE MAN.


Quote:
let's see, the entire US force during the height of the Iraq war used 6,000,000 rounds a month so if the DHS finds itself in a war they will have enough bullets to fight on for 28 years
Comparing apples to oranges there bub. The DHS is not using ammo in a warzone, they are using it primarily for training and supplying law enforcement.

Try again. So far you get a big fat F in grade school reasoning.

Quote:
and if you think this is for target practice why hollow point rounds which was a large part of the purchase. They cost twice as much as steel jacket rounds so there goes the money saving argument.
What's the total amount of HP bullets ordered Baja? Love your vague, useless "large part of the purchase".
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:16 PM   #70
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Baja, have you ever given any thought to the fact that if the government had as evil intentions as you say it does, and if even a fraction of all of these conspiracy theories were true, you and all the other people who discovered them would have been whacked along time ago?

Do you seriously think a government which plans on turning its weapons on its own citizens would allow you and others like you to shed light on what's really going on?

I can guarantee you one thing. If this government bore any resemblance to the Nazi Germany you so love to reference, you would be in jail right now.

Or dead.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:26 PM   #71
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Comparing apples to oranges there bub. The DHS is not using ammo in a warzone, they are using it primarily for training and supplying law enforcement.

Try again. So far you get a big fat F in grade school reasoning.



What's the total amount of HP bullets ordered Baja? Love your vague, useless "large part of the purchase".
More than 1 is cause for question given their stated use but here you go;

DHS To Buy 360,000 More Rounds of Hollow Point Ammunition

Arms build-up continues as Congress demands answers
Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
March 25, 2013
While the Department of Homeland Security continues to ignore members of Congress demanding to know why the federal agency is engaged in an apparent arms build-up, the DHS has just announced it plans to purchase another 360,000 rounds of hollow point ammunition to add to the roughly 2 billion bullets already bought over the past year.

The DHS has now purchased over 2 billion rounds of ammo.
A solicitation on the Federal Business Opportunities website details the DHS’ plan to purchase 360,000 rounds of “Commercial leaded training ammo (CLTA) Pistol .40 caliber 165 grain, jacketed hollow point.” The bullets are to be delivered to the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center in Artesia, New Mexico, the same destination for 240,000 hollow point rounds which were purchased only last month.
Although the DHS has attempted to explain its mammoth purchase of ammunition by claiming the bullets are being acquired in bulk to save money and that they are for training purposes only, this has been disputed by reputable voices such as former Marine Richard Mason, who told reporters with WHPTV News in Pennsylvania earlier this month, “We never trained with hollow points, we didn’t even see hollow points my entire four and a half years in the Marine Corps.”
Hollow point bullets are almost twice as expensive as full metal jackets, therefore the DHS’ explanation that it is buying huge quantities in bulk to “save money” doesn’t make sense.
As we reported yesterday, concerns about the apparent arms build-up are growing, with retired United States Army Captain Terry M. Hestilow sending a letter to Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX) warning that the ammo purchases represent “a bold threat of war by that agency (DHS), and the Obama administration, against the citizens of the United States of America.”
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:56 PM   #72
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More than 1 is cause for question given their stated use but here you go;

DHS To Buy 360,000 More Rounds of Hollow Point Ammunition

...
And your source is fudging things. The solicitation for the HP bullets does not indicate they are to be used for training only. It doesn't specify any particular use (why would a RFQ specify a use? that would be silly).

Here's the actual solicitation:

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportun...a7943&_cview=0

It's an RFQ, and hasn't even been filled. It's the only evidence you've brought they they've tried or have actually bought HP rounds.

So, so far they've bought 0 HP rounds based on what you've shown me. And even if they did, they have legit uses for it (no doubt the secrecy service and other organizations under the DHS don't mess around with FMJ for duty ammo) so it's no surprise they they buy it.


In any event, you didn't answer the question: how much ammo does the DHS need per year?
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:31 PM   #73
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Dude if you don't have a shock & awe experience over the 2B bullet purchase by the DHS than I don't know what to tell you/ I don't think you have any idea how much 2 BILLION ROUNDS actually is.

Lets say there are 50,000 DHS employees that fire 10 rounds a day it would take 5 1/2 years to go through that many rounds.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:35 PM   #74
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I'm still trying to figure out when those that wanted cuts in defense and the military started defending the build up of weaponry and ammunition? 2009? So the average Joe should have to go through tougher requirements to buy and keep a gun, but Homeland Security should add tons of such things without having to answer for it? "Interesting" country we have to say the least.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:48 PM   #75
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Dude if you don't have a shock & awe experience over the 2B bullet purchase by the DHS than I don't know what to tell you/ I don't think you have any idea how much 2 BILLION ROUNDS actually is.
The only people in "shock and awe" are the ignorant like you. How many time do I have to say it:

1.) They haven't bought 2 billion rounds. They have several contracts that add up to a MAXIMUM LIMIT AT A CERTAIN PRICE of that many. Do you not understand the difference?

2.) What they have contracted if over a FIVE YEAR PERIOD.

3.) Given what the DHS does (lots and lots of training), the amount of ammo in the RFQ is quite reasonable.

In other words, the DHS has negotiated a bulk rate on ammo for 5 years, with a maximum limit to the number of rounds that they can buy at that rate. They have not actually bought that much ammo.

You have to be pretty GD daft to not understand that.

Quote:
Lets say there are 50,000 DHS employees that fire 10 rounds a day it would take 5 1/2 years to go through that many rounds.
Again: Based on your reasoning, how many rounds do they actually need? Why won't you answer such a simple question?
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