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Old 03-27-2013, 10:20 AM   #101
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The second part is what bothers me most about this whole thing. Ozzie let so many players walk but they leaped at the chance to sign Dumervil. And they were able to get him for good value relative to some of the players they let go (most notably Kruger). Many people are writing them off but I think they have a plan at every position. Plus they signed both Chris Canty and Marcus Spears to bolster their DL depth. Ozzie knows what he's doing.
It's not like their plan was to wait for the whole faxgate thing to explode, and then swoop in. They got rid of a bunch of starters on D, and their best WR. None of this was with signing Dumervil in mind. They have a charmed life, and got lucky things turned out the way they did.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:24 AM   #102
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Vinny Curry - LB - Eagles

Eagles OLB Vinny Curry reportedly "has a long way to go" before he's assured of a roster spot.
Trent Cole, Connor Barwin and Brandon Graham are all well ahead of Curry, a 2012 second-round pick that was active for just six games last year. The Eagles' interest in free agent OLB Victor Butler certainly doesn't bode well either. The new regime may see Curry as strictly the 4-3 end he was drafted as

How about him instead of old man Abe and Freeney?

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/...y-curry-1.html

Solid enough combine...

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/...rry?id=2532825

I wonder if he would be someone they would trade.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:28 AM   #103
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I think Balt drank the Elway kool-aid because they agreed that Doom wasn't worth what Denver was going to paying. Also you are 100% wrong on who was going to pay him more.



I have the details to the five-year contract Elvis Dumervil signed with the Baltimore Ravens.

And upon closer inspection, Dumervil wasnít fibbing when he said it wasnít about the money.

Letís compare the Ravensí contract to the Broncos offer. first the Ravens:

2013: $1 million salary; $7.5 million signing bonus = $8.5 million (fully guaranteed)
2014: $1 million salary; $3.5 million option bonus (injury-only guarantee) = $4.5 million
2015: $4 million salary
2016: $4 million salary
2017: 5 million salary

Totals
1 year: $8.5 million
2 years: $13 million
3 years: $17 million
5 years: $26 million ($5.2 million/yr average)
Full guarantee: $8.5 million
Escalators: $8 million; incentives: $2 million

Broncos
2013: $5 million salary; $3 million signing bonus = $8 million (fully guaranteed)
2014: $5 million ($2 million fully guaranteed)
2015: $5 million

Totals
1 year: $8 million
2 years: $13 million
3 years: $18 million ($6 million/yr average)
Full guarantee; $10 million.
Escalators: $2 million

Conclusion:
Most agents and executives within the industry would say the Broncos offered a slightly better deal because they had more guaranteed money and a better three-year average. The escalators for both the Ravens and Broncos were built around a 12-sack season.

Moreover, donít forget the Broncos paid Dumervil $31.2 million the previous three years. And throughout the free-agent process, the Broncos had a better deal than the Ravens in year one and two. If it was about the money, Dumervil would signed back with the Broncos before Sunday.

This was not about the money. This was about a broken relationship between the Broncos and Dumervil, and the Ravens showering Dumervil with love.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/...-ravens/19017/
Something doesn't smell right here. Why would the Broncos do the hokey pokey with the fully guaranteed money in 2014?

If that really was in their last offer, it means they offered it, then yanked it right before cutting Doom, and then threw it back afterwards. Not sure if that makes the clusterfax episode better or worse.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:43 AM   #104
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Sack totals listed above are not indicative of the kind of player Datone Jones is. He has played every position on that defensive line (much like Malik Jackson at Tennessee) and makes a tremendous impact in the games he is. If he was ever able to settle at a position consistently, I would gather he would have much better sack totals. You should check out the Oregon State game from this year. That will show you how he was used with the Bruins. You need to stop looking at just the #'s and watch the guys play.

Jack Del Rio would do a fabulous job adjusting front formations to play to Jones and the other DL on this teams strengths.
he reminds me of Robert Ayers. probably not going to rush the passer a ton but a solid DE.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:48 AM   #105
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Something doesn't smell right here. Why would the Broncos do the hokey pokey with the fully guaranteed money in 2014?

If that really was in their last offer, it means they offered it, then yanked it right before cutting Doom, and then threw it back afterwards. Not sure if that makes the clusterfax episode better or worse.
did you forget the part about Doom and his agent telling the broncos to **** off earlier in the day?

nothing like waiting to the last minute, Doom
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:48 AM   #106
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No they didnt. Broncos offered 10 mil guaranteed and ravens offered 12. Ravens also gave a 3.5 million year two guarantee against injury.

This board is terrible for trashing players. We had Doom under contract. We cut him.

For the 5 mil in cap space we are eating and the 6 mil we apparantly offered him, we could have just kept him for 1 mil more under his old deal, and cut Joe Mays to get the Welker deal done and under the cap in time.

All I see is spin and how the Broncos are fine, Doom is a traitor, blah, blah, blah. If Elway ever wants you to drink some kool-aid before taking a ride on a comet, you would be pushing each other out of the way to be first in line.
100 percent wrong Denver offered a better deal and his vag/ego were bruised despite the fact Denver took care of him the past 3 years. F him and time to move on.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:57 AM   #107
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Something doesn't smell right here. Why would the Broncos do the hokey pokey with the fully guaranteed money in 2014?
Because they probably never did to begin with. That was ol' Marty's version. He was probably lying. He certainly had incentive to since he'll be lucky to attract another NFL client anytime soon.
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:27 AM   #108
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Yeah...like Sharpe and Pryce. Two pretty good players the Donks also jettisoned after their ridiculous arm twisting didn't pan out. Both players had something left to offer Baltimore, and Sharpe simply was a big part of the Ravens' first title.

Besides...Ozzie Newsome has made his rep on completely misjudging talent and signing stiffs, so that has to make one feel a little better about the whole thing.
Hence the reason I said most.....care to discuss the RB's Bell (both Mike and Tatum), Anderson, Gary, Heyward, Deltha, Berry etc....

Sure they had a decent season or two, however I'd argue that the reason their departures seemed like huge losses to some was the whole "former SB winning Broncos" sentiment more than their actual contributions to their new teams.

And I'd argue that the Ravens D was the big reason they won the SB that year, but will concede Sharpe did improve their offense and led the Ravens in receiving. however that defense was going to win it all regardless.....how else would you explain them winning 3 out of 5 games where their offense didn't score a solitary TD? They were capable of tossing a shutout in virtually every game that year.

In 2000 Sharpe had 67 catches for 810 which placed him 35th in the NFL (4th among TE's) with 5 TD's....to put it into perspective for you Kyle Brady had 64-729 with 3 TD's. Meanwhile, Tony Gonzales had 93 catches for 1203 yards and 9 TD's.....which is the kind of production that one generally laments losing.

In 2001 Sharpe had 73 catches for 811 yards and 2 TD's.....placing him 25th overall in NFL (2nd among TE's).....sorry but that too is nothing to write home about.

He was a great player and had a great Hall of Fame career, but we didn't miss his production those two seasons, however I will concede that we may have missed his leadership.

Pryce hardly was the huge loss either in my opinion. again, most hated him leaving because he was a former SB winner with us....he had 13 sacks in his first season with Ravens, then amassed only 15 total sacks over the next 4 seasons.

Last edited by errand; 03-27-2013 at 11:33 AM..
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:09 PM   #109
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100 percent wrong Denver offered a better deal and his vag/ego were bruised despite the fact Denver took care of him the past 3 years. F him and time to move on.
Exactly!!

We are fine without him. Didn't need his pouting ass around in the locker room all season anyway.
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:14 PM   #110
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Exactly!!

We are fine without him. Didn't need his pouting ass around in the locker room all season anyway.
He has more class than you

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"It was an unfortunate situation," Dumervil acknowledged. "Obviously leaving a really good organization like the Denver Broncos, they're proven winners. I have nothing but good things to say about the organization. But when an opportunity came that I could come to another winner and a first-class organization, it was just leaving one great one to another great one. So I took it."
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:24 PM   #111
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Because they probably never did to begin with. That was ol' Marty's version. He was probably lying. He certainly had incentive to since he'll be lucky to attract another NFL client anytime soon.
I think it's pretty clear that the 'too late' contract had only an injury guarantee in it. And the Post reported that there was a full guarantee earlier in the week.

The only thing you can really say the agent could've lied about was whether that was dropped on him in that 11th hour contract, or earlier.

Regardless, I see nothing that the Broncos likely moved on that would offset yanking a $3m guarantee for the following year. At least not during an honest meet-in-the-middle type negotiation.

Put it all together and it looks most likely like they decided to play some hardball with a model team member. And in the end, he decided it was best to get out from underneath. This is a Lose Lose for the Broncos any way you slice it.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ervil-debacle/
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:26 PM   #112
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He has more class than you
Yep, he is a classy dude. He thanked the organization that drafted him, gave him a fat contract, and paid him a ton of money including for a season he didn't play one down by going to another team for less money. Class class class.

Even if he had stayed we all know he would have held a grudge throughout the season. We don't need that around the locker room while we are making a super bowl run.
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Old 03-27-2013, 12:29 PM   #113
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"It was an unfortunate situation," Dumervil acknowledged. "Obviously leaving a really good organization like the Denver Broncos, they're proven winners. I have nothing but good things to say about the organization. But when an opportunity came that I could come to another winner and a first-class organization, it was just leaving one great one to another great one. So I took it."

I've always been told that when someone qualifies their comments with a "but" you can just throw out everything they said before it.

He knew what his agent was trying to pull.....when it blew up in his face, he fired the agent in order to make himself look good, and then he signed with another team because his feelings were hurt....end of story.
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:34 PM   #114
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I've been thinking along the same lines, Hulamau, and that's one of the reasons I'm sort of ambivalent to losing Doom. I expect Wolfe to hit double digit sacks this season. To extend the Houston analogy, I doubt we will miss Doom any more than Houston's defense missed Mario Williams.
Good thinking BI, we're all on the same page I feel sure that the FO and coaching staff have also been focused on and counting on too well before we all were forced to consider this scenario..

In addition to a breakout year from Wolfe, I'm hopeful too for a big step up from Malik and maybe even Ayers too in year two of JDR, but Malik might become more disruptive than Ayers has it in him in any event..as long as one of those guys steps it up big time this year we should not lose much of a beat defensively and be better at stuffing the run in any event.

We take a decent jump in our run game too with a beefed up and much improved Hillman joined by hopefully a real stud in the making rookie RB combined with Louis Vasquesz and Orlando (and hopefully Blake able to start well at center in place of Walton) all doing the road grading work on the right side of the line, then our overall offense is going to be sick good and nearly unstoppable.

Would be nice to have a solid vet RDE as well, to help insure the situation and provide mentorship and early season consistency in sacks/pressure from the right, but its not at all a make or break deal for our SB chances that we should overpay out the nose and lose whatever $$ and cap space relief we got in the Doom divorce. I trust Elway and company have their heads screwed on straight here and we're in good hands.

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Old 03-27-2013, 02:08 PM   #115
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What about Alex Okafor or Damontre Moore?

Those guys seem to be the biggest value from where you're picking.
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Old 03-27-2013, 02:47 PM   #116
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100 percent wrong Denver offered a better deal and his vag/ego were bruised despite the fact Denver took care of him the past 3 years. F him and time to move on.

This pretty much sums it up..........I sincerely hope we blow the Ravens and Doom up in Mile High
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Old 03-27-2013, 02:52 PM   #117
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He has more class than you

Really ?

Class is fixing a problem you created and remaining loyal to a team that fed your ass while you rehabbed.

Don't want to hear it............the guy was butt hurt over something or else he wouldn't taken a similar offer from the Ravens and start over.

Everyone else here if given similar options would stay with what they know..........take a poll if you doubt me ?

We all now know the guaranteed money was similar.............
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Old 03-27-2013, 03:08 PM   #118
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Really ?

Class is fixing a problem you created and remaining loyal to a team that fed your ass while you rehabbed.

Don't want to hear it............the guy was butt hurt over something or else he wouldn't taken a similar offer from the Ravens and start over.

Everyone else here if given similar options would stay with what they know..........take a poll if you doubt me ?

We all now know the guaranteed money was similar.............
Yep, and like I said at this moment I am truly happy he is gone. If we had re-signed him we would be on the hook for a lot of money over the next few years and he would more than likely hold a grudge and have a bad attitude. Not needed. We will be fine.
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:08 PM   #119
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Yep, he is a classy dude. He thanked the organization that drafted him, gave him a fat contract, and paid him a ton of money including for a season he didn't play one down by going to another team for less money. Class class class.

Even if he had stayed we all know he would have held a grudge throughout the season. We don't need that around the locker room while we are making a super bowl run.
yeah the same team that cut him saying he wasn't worth the money.

I'm sorry maybe you like getting fired, but if a company fires me I would have a hard time going back to work for them at a reduced rate.

He'd still be a Bronco if Denver hadn't cut him in the first place.
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:12 PM   #120
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Will he ever be a 15+ sack guy in the NFL? Probably not. Few are. But I think the guy has the potential to be a complete end who offers quality support against the run and the pass. 8-10 sacks a year, but a lot of TFL and the ability to be more stout against the run than Dumervil was.

Just my 2 cents. As I said, pricejj needs to stop looking at just production and actually understand how scheme and player responsibility and assignments can impact that.
Let's get something clear. I look at a lot more than "just production". It's all about winning one-on-one matchups, and putting players in a position that gives them the best chance to succeed. The primary question for me is: Can a player win the matchup battle?

1. I have said numerous times that Datone Jones would be best in the Broncos base defense at Wolfe's spot (5-tech). I even suggested that the Broncos draft Jones so they could move Wolfe inside permanently. Jones has a little bit more edge speed than Wolfe, and could probably generate pressure lining up against the RT. Wolfe is better inside (I like him at UT).
2. I have watched plenty of Datone Jones' film. There is no indication that he is an edge-rusher. Jones' game is predicated on power (much like Wolfe's).
3. Jones compares himself to J.J. Watt or Geno Atkins.

In conclusion, playing Jones at RDE (to take Dumervil's spot) in the Broncos Defense is simply not a good idea. Jones is best suited to use his power and quickness to win one-on-one matchups vs. NFL Guards and Centers...not LT's.
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:14 PM   #121
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What about Alex Okafor or Damontre Moore?

Those guys seem to be the biggest value from where you're picking.
Exactly what I have been preaching. Although Okafor has a lot more value on the leftside (which the Broncos don't need). I doubt he can get to the QB consistently on the rightside.

If Damontre Moore is within striking distance, drop a 4th to go get him. Much of the success of any Defense is determined by the effectiveness of the RDE (blind-side rusher)...right now the Broncos don't have one. Moore has the ability to succeed in the NFL as a 4-3 RDE (much like Dumervil).

Last edited by pricejj; 03-27-2013 at 05:17 PM..
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:23 PM   #122
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We don't need to trade up in the draft to get a quality pass rusher.. I actually have a really good idea as to what we can do to fill that void as soon as the OMane mock is complete..
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:26 PM   #123
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We don't need to trade up in the draft to get a quality pass rusher.. I actually have a really good idea as to what we can do to fill that void as soon as the OMane mock is complete..
I doubt the answer to our DE problem ia still on the board
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:26 PM   #124
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We don't need to trade up in the draft to get a quality pass rusher.. I actually have a really good idea as to what we can do to fill that void as soon as the OMane mock is complete..
Good, now I can relax.
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Old 03-27-2013, 05:35 PM   #125
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I doubt the answer to our DE problem ia still on the board
I'm disappointed in you! There are some impactful players still around! Late rounds is where you distinguish yourself.
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