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Old 03-27-2013, 12:56 AM   #51
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deal is actually a 5 year 26 million.

Denver offered more guaranteed money.

Slice it how you like. He wanted out of here. And now I hate him. As any true fan would.
Yep $1Mill this year, $7.5Mill signing bonus...5 year $26 Mill
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Old 03-27-2013, 01:04 AM   #52
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If Ed Reed doesn't sign with Houston and free up money no way Balt even comes close ot Denver's offer so don't sit here and act like Baltimore is some great FO. They got lucky Elvis wasn't better prepared to handle his career. They had Elvis pegged lower than Denver and money freed up vs Denver where Doom already cost the team nearly $5 MM in dead money so $500K is not even in question as to why Denver didn't pony up more

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Old 03-27-2013, 01:50 AM   #53
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Really? Really!!?? Denver cut him because they thought he wasn't worth the money. Then they try to sign him to a 3 year $18 million deal and the Ravens offered him a 5 year $35 million deal. I am the biggest Broncos' fan in the world and I would have taken the Ravens' deal.
not really correct. Denver offered 3 for 18 and Ravens is 5 for 26 with potential for 35(which he won't be around long enough for). In reality both deals were 1 year deals and Denver offered more guaranteed money which is all that matters.
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Old 03-27-2013, 02:14 AM   #54
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not really correct. Denver offered 3 for 18 and Ravens is 5 for 26 with potential for 35(which he won't be around long enough for). In reality both deals were 1 year deals and Denver offered more guaranteed money which is all that matters.
No they didnt. Broncos offered 10 mil guaranteed and ravens offered 12. Ravens also gave a 3.5 million year two guarantee against injury.

This board is terrible for trashing players. We had Doom under contract. We cut him.

For the 5 mil in cap space we are eating and the 6 mil we apparantly offered him, we could have just kept him for 1 mil more under his old deal, and cut Joe Mays to get the Welker deal done and under the cap in time.

All I see is spin and how the Broncos are fine, Doom is a traitor, blah, blah, blah. If Elway ever wants you to drink some kool-aid before taking a ride on a comet, you would be pushing each other out of the way to be first in line.
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Old 03-27-2013, 06:34 AM   #55
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No they didnt. Broncos offered 10 mil guaranteed and ravens offered 12. Ravens also gave a 3.5 million year two guarantee against injury.

This board is terrible for trashing players. We had Doom under contract. We cut him.

For the 5 mil in cap space we are eating and the 6 mil we apparantly offered him, we could have just kept him for 1 mil more under his old deal, and cut Joe Mays to get the Welker deal done and under the cap in time.

All I see is spin and how the Broncos are fine, Doom is a traitor, blah, blah, blah. If Elway ever wants you to drink some kool-aid before taking a ride on a comet, you would be pushing each other out of the way to be first in line.
Link please pft had opposite guarantee numbers.

And yes I want to take another comet did with #7.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:00 AM   #56
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Link please pft had opposite guarantee numbers.

And yes I want to take another comet did with #7.
The confusion is caused because articles are including the $3.5 million injury guarantee into the $12 million figure they site for Baltimore. But that is only an injury guarantee...the Ravens will have the option to pay that $3.5 million next offseason as a roster bonus if Doom is healthy. The real no-strings-attached guarantee is just the $7.5 million signing bonus they are giving him up front. So, we actually did offer the most fully guaranteed money at $10 million.

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Old 03-27-2013, 07:20 AM   #57
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The confusion is caused because articles are including the $3.5 million injury guarantee into the $12 million figure they site for Baltimore. But that is only an injury guarantee...the Ravens will have the option to pay that $3.5 million next offseason as a roster bonus if Doom is healthy. The real no-strings-attached guarantee is just the $7.5 million signing bonus they are giving him up front. So, we actually did offer the most fully guaranteed money at $10 million.
Thanks. I wanted the actual terms clear. Lots of folks just speculating and throwing stuff out there.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:25 AM   #58
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Thanks. I wanted the actual terms clear. Lots of folks just speculating and throwing stuff out there.
Yeah, I think that injury guarantee part is confusing a lot of people. As to why Doom would turn down more no-strings-attached money, I think he is betting that he'll have a big season and Baltimore will opt to pick up the option bonus, in which case the Baltimore deal probably is better. But say he goes out and has 8 or 9 sacks. A decent, but not great, season. Will Baltimore want to make that pay-out to a then-30 year old player who may be on the decline? So, it is a bit of gamble on his part.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:32 AM   #59
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It should be noted that most Broncos players who are cut or leave via FA rarely amount to much of anything on their new teams....
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:36 AM   #60
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The real no-strings-attached guarantee is just the $7.5 million signing bonus they are giving him up front.
Agree, but it's really $8.5 when you include his $1.0 million salary for 2013. But the confusion is understandable the way it's being worded. This from Rotoworld:

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3/24/2013: Signed a five-year, $26 million contract. The deal contains $12 million guaranteed, including a $7.5 million signing bonus. Another $9 million is available through incentives. 2013: $1 million, 2014-2017: Under Contract, 2018: Free Agent
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3941/elvis-dumervil
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:50 AM   #61
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6 million per ROR. Good luck with getting that anywhere.

Come on down buddy!

Having a Tank along the Dline would be pretty cool
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:59 AM   #62
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It should be noted that most Broncos players who are cut or leave via FA rarely amount to much of anything on their new teams....
Yeah...like Sharpe and Pryce. Two pretty good players the Donks also jettisoned after their ridiculous arm twisting didn't pan out. Both players had something left to offer Baltimore, and Sharpe simply was a big part of the Ravens' first title.

Besides...Ozzie Newsome has made his rep on completely misjudging talent and signing stiffs, so that has to make one feel a little better about the whole thing.
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Old 03-27-2013, 07:59 AM   #63
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not really correct. Denver offered 3 for 18 and Ravens is 5 for 26 with potential for 35(which he won't be around long enough for). In reality both deals were 1 year deals and Denver offered more guaranteed money which is all that matters.
I doubt that, if he gets his 10-15 sacks every year he will fullfill his contract in Baltimore. Or at least get 4 years out of it.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:00 AM   #64
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"It was an unfortunate situation," Dumervil acknowledged. "Obviously leaving a really good organization like the Denver Broncos, they're proven winners. I have nothing but good things to say about the organization. But when an opportunity came that I could come to another winner and a first-class organization, it was just leaving one great one to another great one. So I took it."

The Ravens wasted almost no time pursuing the hard-charging pass rusher, especially after an offseason in which they lost free agents Ed Reed, Paul Kruger, Dannell Ellerbe and Cary Williams, cut safety Bernard Pollard and traded wide receiver Anquan Boldin.
So general manager Ozzie Newsome worked out a salary-cap friendly deal with around $35 million. After receiving a bit of encouragement via text message from Ravens linebacker Terrell Suggs, Dumervil accepted.

Dumervil played in all 16 games with the Broncos last season, serving as team captain and registering 11 sacks for the top-seeded team in the AFC. Over seven seasons he has 63 1/2 sacks, an interception and 17 forced fumbles.

Read more: Ex-Broncos DE Elvis Dumervil joins Ravens, says it was time for change - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...#ixzz2OkSj4C7e


Doom is a classy guy, bes tof luck to him except when he plays Denver.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:10 AM   #65
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The confusion is caused because articles are including the $3.5 million injury guarantee into the $12 million figure they site for Baltimore. But that is only an injury guarantee...the Ravens will have the option to pay that $3.5 million next offseason as a roster bonus if Doom is healthy. The real no-strings-attached guarantee is just the $7.5 million signing bonus they are giving him up front. So, we actually did offer the most fully guaranteed money at $10 million.
I thought our second year guarantee was also only for injury. I haven't seen the report that we offered an unconditional $10 guaranteed.

Plus it's not like the actual contract numbers for year two are meaningless. If Doom (and his agent) are of the opinion that this was just a bad year for the FA market, they'd want to consider how much it will cost a team to keep him locked up in future years. You guys bank on him getting cut next year again, but if he's under contract for $6 million bucks or something similar, that's very unlikely.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:12 AM   #66
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Yeah...like Sharpe and Pryce. Two pretty good players the Donks also jettisoned after their ridiculous arm twisting didn't pan out. Both players had something left to offer Baltimore, and Sharpe simply was a big part of the Ravens' first title.

Besides...Ozzie Newsome has made his rep on completely misjudging talent and signing stiffs, so that has to make one feel a little better about the whole thing.
On the first part, IIRC Sharpe and Pryce were let go because Shanahan had us in salary cap hell.

The second part is what bothers me most about this whole thing. Ozzie let so many players walk but they leaped at the chance to sign Dumervil. And they were able to get him for good value relative to some of the players they let go (most notably Kruger). Many people are writing them off but I think they have a plan at every position. Plus they signed both Chris Canty and Marcus Spears to bolster their DL depth. Ozzie knows what he's doing.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:14 AM   #67
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I actually agree with Pricejj here. I think Datone Jones is a solid player, but if the broncos intend to replace Doom with a Doom like pass rusher, then Moore is a better fit. I like him too. Regardless of the combine, he's got a good motor on the field.
UCLA was running a 3-4 defense last year and Jones lined up everywhere on that line. How many 3-4 ends and nose tackles do you see having insane pass rushing numbers? Not many. The sheer fact that the dude had nearly 20 tackles for loss proves he has the ability to get in the backfield and make plays. If he was in a 4-3 defense where he could go after the quarterback more, he would have much better pass rushing numbers. His 2011 season was after a foot fracture, so that explains to me that he was still getting back in the groove after missing the 2010 season.

I would not bet against Datone Jones. He is extremely athletic, gets up the field quickly and disrupts the run and pass game well. He also puts his hands up and deflects balls if he knows he isn't going to make it to the QB. He is a cerebral player with a great mental grasp of the game. If the Broncos were willing to take a guy like Malik Jackson who had similar experience moving inside and out on their defensive fronts, I would expect Jones (who is a better prospect and just as versatile) to catch the eyes of the coaches.

Why people are getting caught up with the whole LDE/RDE, etc. thing is beyond me. If you don't think that the coaches can tweek schematics in order to play to the strengths of those on the field. . . well. . . I just don't know what to say. Jones is going to have a much better career as a pro if he stays at end and gets to grow there.

Will he ever be a 15+ sack guy in the NFL? Probably not. Few are. But I think the guy has the potential to be a complete end who offers quality support against the run and the pass. 8-10 sacks a year, but a lot of TFL and the ability to be more stout against the run than Dumervil was.

Just my 2 cents. As I said, pricejj needs to stop looking at just production and actually understand how scheme and player responsibility and assignments can impact that.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:15 AM   #68
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On the first part, IIRC Sharpe and Pryce were let go because Shanahan had us in salary cap hell.

The second part is what bothers me most about this whole thing. Ozzie let so many players walk but they leaped at the chance to sign Dumervil. And they were able to get him for good value relative to some of the players they let go (most notably Kruger). Many people are writing them off but I think they have a plan at every position. Plus they signed both Chris Canty and Marcus Spears to bolster their DL depth. Ozzie knows what he's doing.
I still think losing Boldin was a bad move. He was really important to them during their playoff run
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:16 AM   #69
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On the first part, IIRC Sharpe and Pryce were let go because Shanahan had us in salary cap hell.

The second part is what bothers me most about this whole thing. Ozzie let so many players walk but they leaped at the chance to sign Dumervil. And they were able to get him for good value relative to some of the players they let go (most notably Kruger). Many people are writing them off but I think they have a plan at every position. Plus they signed both Chris Canty and Marcus Spears to bolster their DL depth. Ozzie knows what he's doing.
FWIW, Dumervil for the price they got him at is much better than what the Dolphins pushed out for Ellerbe @ LB or the Browns did for Kruger. (I believe it was the Browns) It is a very good move for them and although I'm pissed at Doom, I can't blame him for going to reunite with a coach who helped him have the best season of his career.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:18 AM   #70
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I still think losing Boldin was a bad move. He was really important to them during their playoff run
I think they are extremely high on Tandon Doss and I would be willing to wager that the Ravens will snag another WR in this deep class. Was Boldin worth what he was going to make? Maybe, maybe not. We will see. I wouldn't bet against Ozzie.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:22 AM   #71
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I thought our second year guarantee was also only for injury. I haven't seen the report that we offered an unconditional $10 guaranteed.
Klis was initially reporting that our guarantee was better, $10 million to $8.5 million ($7.5 million up front + $1 million base). Obviously, we probably aren't going to know our exact offer since it was never signed to make official, but I never heard anything about an injury guarantee on our end.

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Plus it's not like the actual contract numbers for year two are meaningless. If Doom (and his agent) are of the opinion that this was just a bad year for the FA market, they'd want to consider how much it will cost a team to keep him locked up in future years. You guys bank on him getting cut next year again, but if he's under contract for $6 million bucks or something similar, that's very unlikely.
Keep in mind that it's not just about the $3.5 million. I can't find his 2014 base salary, but let's go with your $6 million figure. If you pay the option bonus, you're basically committing to paying the base. So that's a total cash payout of $9.5 million. Now, if Doom goes out and has 12 sacks, I agree it's likely they will pick him up. But what if he has 8 or 9 (decent but not high level)? Do they want to pay $9.5 million dollars in 2014 for that level of production? I'd say the odds are decent that they will pick him up, but it's not a slam dunk.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:23 AM   #72
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I still think losing Boldin was a bad move. He was really important to them during their playoff run
Agree, probably the move I'm most puzzled about.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:26 AM   #73
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I think they are extremely high on Tandon Doss and I would be willing to wager that the Ravens will snag another WR in this deep class. Was Boldin worth what he was going to make? Maybe, maybe not. We will see. I wouldn't bet against Ozzie.
Must be something along these lines. Doss only had 7 receptions the whole year so approaching Boldin's production is quite a leap.
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Old 03-27-2013, 08:48 AM   #74
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UCLA was running a 3-4 defense last year and Jones lined up everywhere on that line. How many 3-4 ends and nose tackles do you see having insane pass rushing numbers? Not many. The sheer fact that the dude had nearly 20 tackles for loss proves he has the ability to get in the backfield and make plays. If he was in a 4-3 defense where he could go after the quarterback more, he would have much better pass rushing numbers. His 2011 season was after a foot fracture, so that explains to me that he was still getting back in the groove after missing the 2010 season.

I would not bet against Datone Jones. He is extremely athletic, gets up the field quickly and disrupts the run and pass game well. He also puts his hands up and deflects balls if he knows he isn't going to make it to the QB. He is a cerebral player with a great mental grasp of the game. If the Broncos were willing to take a guy like Malik Jackson who had similar experience moving inside and out on their defensive fronts, I would expect Jones (who is a better prospect and just as versatile) to catch the eyes of the coaches.

Why people are getting caught up with the whole LDE/RDE, etc. thing is beyond me. If you don't think that the coaches can tweek schematics in order to play to the strengths of those on the field. . . well. . . I just don't know what to say. Jones is going to have a much better career as a pro if he stays at end and gets to grow there.

Will he ever be a 15+ sack guy in the NFL? Probably not. Few are. But I think the guy has the potential to be a complete end who offers quality support against the run and the pass. 8-10 sacks a year, but a lot of TFL and the ability to be more stout against the run than Dumervil was.

Just my 2 cents. As I said, pricejj needs to stop looking at just production and actually understand how scheme and player responsibility and assignments can impact that.
There is a HUGE difference between LDE and RDE in the hybrid 2-gapping 40 front we play. Wolfe plays LDE at nearly 300 pounds and has to handle the RT and TE in run blocking, whereas Dumervil played the RDE at around 255 pounds and only has to deal setting the edge against the LT. The play of Wolfe at LDE is all about setting up Von Miller to set the edge on that side and is a key factor in Miller getting so many tackles for loss. On the right side of the defense the linebackers are supposed to cover the interior gaps and Dumervil is supposed to force the run wide to allow either the will linebacker or free safety to come up if they run off tackle.

I don't know of a lot of teams that change their defense fundamentally to account for a player they draft, that just doesn't make a ton of sense. It makes much more sense to draft a player who fits what you are trying to do with the players you already have rather than drafting a player who doesn't fit that mould and having to change the players you have on the roster.

If we need a left end or we are switching to a 30 front then Datone Jones makes some sense, but he is just not quick enough to be a right defensive end. The difference between a tackle for loss and a sack is that you only need to be a yard behind the line for a tackle for loss, for a sack you need to be a full 5 steps or more into the backfield and the quickness that requires is on a whole different level.
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Old 03-27-2013, 09:05 AM   #75
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