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Old 03-25-2013, 04:13 PM   #126
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. . .

Why would the Broncos draft a guy who is a RT only when they just signed Vasquez (RG) and Franklin's best fit (if he doesn't play RT) is RG? Franklin played LG at Miami too, but there is a reason he is on the right side of the line in the NFL. Drafting an OT in the first round would be an absolute retard move. The only reason Doc Bear wrote this article is because the dude has verbal diarrhea and likes to hear himself talk.

Christ.
Agreed. This team has bigger needs than tinkering with an already effective OL that they improved during FA.
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:25 PM   #127
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They have to find a passrushing RDE somewhere in the next couple of drafts, unless they're somehow smarter than everybody else in the League.

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Old 03-25-2013, 05:31 PM   #128
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They have to find a passrushing RDE somewhere in the next couple of drafts, unless they're somehow smarter than everybody else in the League, which I doubt.
They could be gambling on Suggs being released sooner rather than later. As it stands now the Ravens will have to let either Suggs or Ladarius Webb or possibly both go next year.
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Old 03-25-2013, 05:49 PM   #129
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They could be gambling on Suggs being released sooner rather than later. As it stands now the Ravens will have to let either Suggs or Ladarius Webb or possibly both go next year.
They're gambling, that's for sure. But in fairness I think teams all over the League were expecting a larger increase in the cap this year. Nevertheless, you try to win THIS year. THIS is the year, keep your RDE that's proven.

If they were disgusted with Elvis they could have cut him early, brought in Kruger or Avril. No, they liked him, but they wanted him to take the haircut for the team. They kind of picked on him to take the cut, now they have to make up some production at RDE and leadership. RDE is not a scrub position, you want a stud there, now they have to find one.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:07 PM   #130
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:10 PM   #131
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They're gambling, that's for sure. But in fairness I think teams all over the League were expecting a larger increase in the cap this year. Nevertheless, you try to win THIS year. THIS is the year, keep your RDE that's proven.

If they were disgusted with Elvis they could have cut him early, brought in Kruger or Avril. No, they liked him, but they wanted him to take the haircut for the team. They kind of picked on him to take the cut, now they have to make up some production at RDE and leadership. RDE is not a scrub position, you want a stud there, now they have to find one.
I actually think the Ravens are trying to follow the Steelers/Patriots model of signing free agents to below market contracts combined with squeezing veterans to takes less money or simply cutting them and then relying on the draft and a proven QB/HC duo to carry the load. I am guessing next season they are going to be looking at renegotiating with Ngata and they will cut either Suggs or Webb. As it stands they have about 106 million tied up next season for 32 players, that is not enough space to fill out the roster under the expected cap.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:20 PM   #132
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I actually think the Ravens are trying to follow the Steelers/Patriots model of signing free agents to below market contracts combined with squeezing veterans to takes less money or simply cutting them and then relying on the draft and a proven QB/HC duo to carry the load. I am guessing next season they are going to be looking at renegotiating with Ngata and they will cut either Suggs or Webb. As it stands they have about 106 million tied up next season for 32 players, that is not enough space to fill out the roster under the expected cap.
I dunno, the cap didn't go up like expected. I figure Elway expects to draft well and hope for the best. I figured the cap would be up to $130m. Maybe we'll trade up to get a passrusher. Can't depend on just Von.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:31 PM   #133
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Arrghh, I keep seeing in my head that 3-man rush JDR put on Flacco, Champ in the slot, Tony Carter at LCB, Von Miller was just standing around. Could there be a worse possible D alignment than that?
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:32 PM   #134
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^ I think the Ravens are making a big mistake by letting a versatile player go for a pure situational player like Doom. Which to me isn't Raven like. The way they got beat up last year they should know how important it is to have versatile players.

Kruger has played 3-4 DE as well as 3-4 OLB. Now they are stuck with a player that can rush the passer (very well mind you) and that is it. If injuries force Doom into playing running downs I think they are in big trouble.

I also think they fully expected to sign players back when they traded Bolden and got Flacco's contract under control. When that didn't happen and they lost Ed Reed they had to make the move that is why they UP'd the offer after he left. I think they are shell shocked how many of their players left via FA after winning the SB.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:45 PM   #135
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^ I think the Ravens are making a big mistake by letting a versatile player go for a pure situational player like Doom. Which to me isn't Raven like. The way they got beat up last year they should know how important it is to have versatile players.

Kruger has played 3-4 DE as well as 3-4 OLB. Now they are stuck with a player that can rush the passer (very well mind you) and that is it. If injuries force Doom into playing running downs I think they are in big trouble.

I also think they fully expected to sign players back when they traded Bolden and got Flacco's contract under control. When that didn't happen and they lost Ed Reed they had to make the move that is why they UP'd the offer after he left. I think they are shell shocked how many of their players left via FA after winning the SB.
C'mon man. If they thought Kruger was worth that they would have kept him. Dumervil can put more pressure on the QB than most guys in the NFL, he gets on QB's as fast as anybody in the League.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:24 PM   #136
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C'mon man. If they thought Kruger was worth that they would have kept him. Dumervil can put more pressure on the QB than most guys in the NFL, he gets on QB's as fast as anybody in the League.
If Denver thought Dumervil was worth it they would have kept him. See how that works? Sometimes teams offer more money.

Kruger is a far and away a more versatile player then Doom. Situational players can be replaced easier then complete players. Instead of just Kruger, now the Ravens are going to use at the very least two players to replace Kruger. Argue that fact away. Yes the pass rush is better but, the Ravens have already said they are going to rotate Doom with Upshaw because one is better at pass rushing the other is better as run stopping. The way teams run hurry up now days it won't take much to get them caught in the change over and taken advantage of. Also you now have a better idea package wise what to expect from the D. The Ravens won't be able to hide Doom in coverage or on run D.

Right now Denver could end up in the same boat with the rotation of players playing DE, though I hope hope we would go after a more complete player in the draft so moving forward to replace Doom. You guys can spin things how you want to about Doom in the run game but, he wasn't very good.

Maybe I'm wrong but, judging how JDR runs things he is willing to give up a few outside sacks to get a bigger more physical DL. Which is what we have needed for years now! Aldon Smith doesn't suffer in the pass rushing game because he has a complete player in Brooks on the other side of the field from him. Why is it all the sudden you think Miller is going to become blockable now? Just get us a 7 sack guy that can stop the run on the other side and watch Von and Wolfe get better as they get more reps.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:44 PM   #137
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If Denver thought Dumervil was worth it they would have kept him. See how that works? Sometimes teams offer more money.

Kruger is a far and away a more versatile player then Doom. Situational players can be replaced easier then complete players. Instead of just Kruger, now the Ravens are going to use at the very least two players to replace Kruger. Argue that fact away. Yes the pass rush is better but, the Ravens have already said they are going to rotate Doom with Upshaw because one is better at pass rushing the other is better as run stopping. The way teams run hurry up now days it won't take much to get them caught in the change over and taken advantage of. Also you now have a better idea package wise what to expect from the D. The Ravens won't be able to hide Doom in coverage or on run D.

Right now Denver could end up in the same boat with the rotation of players playing DE, though I hope hope we would go after a more complete player in the draft so moving forward to replace Doom. You guys can spin things how you want to about Doom in the run game but, he wasn't very good.

Maybe I'm wrong but, judging how JDR runs things he is willing to give up a few outside sacks to get a bigger more physical DL. Which is what we have needed for years now! Aldon Smith doesn't suffer in the pass rushing game because he has a complete player in Brooks on the other side of the field from him. Why is it all the sudden you think Miller is going to become blockable now? Just get us a 7 sack guy that can stop the run on the other side and watch Von and Wolfe get better as they get more reps.
You go ahead and keep on hoping we'll get an RDE. I hope so also. RDE is not a position you f around with if you have a solid guy there, but Elway did. For $3.5m. 2.8% of the cap. The bottom line is Elway tried to lowball Doom for team loyalty, gave him the lowest possible offer, upped it to Kruger level for one year, and maybe $3.5m next year.

Maybe it will work out, we'll see. $1m more and Elvis would still be a Bronco, a creative restructuring, Elvis would still be a Bronco. But Elway tried to get hardass with a team captain and an original Bronco. We'll see how it works out.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:58 PM   #138
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You go ahead and keep on hoping we'll get an RDE. I hope so also. RDE is not a position you f around with if you have a solid guy there, but Elway did. For $3.5m. 2.8% of the cap. The bottom line is Elway tried to lowball Doom for team loyalty, gave him the lowest possible offer, upped it to Kruger level for one year, and maybe $3.5m next year.

Maybe it will work out, we'll see. $1m more and Elvis would still be a Bronco, a creative restructuring, Elvis would still be a Bronco. But Elway tried to get hardass with a team captain and an original Bronco. We'll see how it works out.
Denver has how many starters we are replacing on D, one or two? Replacing one position isn't going to be as hard as you think man. The Ravens tried to play hard ass with a HOF team captain and original Raven in Ed Reed and now have have to replace two HOF team leaders instead of one. What do you think will be harder to replace HOF MLB and HOF S or a pass rushing RDE?
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:19 PM   #139
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Denver has how many starters we are replacing on D, one or two? Replacing one position isn't going to be as hard as you think man. The Ravens tried to play hard ass with a HOF team captain and original Raven in Ed Reed and now have have to replace two HOF team leaders instead of one. What do you think will be harder to replace HOF MLB and HOF S or a pass rushing RDE?
Eh, the Ravens did what they thought right. For me, what I care about is Denver they have to find an RDE, a passrushing RDE. We don't have one. Baltimore let Kruger go and got a better pass rusher in return. We don't have Kruger, and we don't have Dumervil, neither one. We don't have anybody at RDE right now as a passrusher. That's not so good for expectations of a Lombardi.

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Old 03-25-2013, 08:28 PM   #140
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Eh, the Ravens did what they thought right. For me, what I care about is Denver they have to find an RDE, a passrushing RDE. We don't have one. Baltimore let Kruger go and got a better pass rusher in return. We don't have Kruger, and we don't have Dumervil, neither one.
Denver is doing what IT feels is right. Baltimore didn't do a thing to keep its leaders, which is something you are bashing Denver for yet you let them slide? They tried to keep Ed Reed and lost him. Once they lost him because they low balled him they upped the offer to land Doom. Plan and simple.

I would rather be in our shoes replacing a pass rusher then a HOF safety any year. Hell if Denver had Dawkins this year no way do we mess up that last play in the post season. Good luck replacing Ed Reed with Sean Considine or some rookie
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:43 PM   #141
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Denver is doing what IT feels is right. Baltimore didn't do a thing to keep its leaders, which is something you are bashing Denver for yet you let them slide? They tried to keep Ed Reed and lost him. Once they lost him because they low balled him they upped the offer to land Doom. Plan and simple.

I would rather be in our shoes replacing a pass rusher then a HOF safety any year. Hell if Denver had Dawkins this year no way do we mess up that last play in the post season. Good luck replacing Ed Reed with Sean Considine or some rookie
Yeah, Balt may regret letting Reed go, probably will. But again, who's the passrusher for the Broncos at RDE? RDE is a big deal in the NFL. That's one of the most important positions. A steady guy at RDE is a big deal, and that's what Elvis is. Maybe they can replace him, but they did try to lowball the guy, and will probably have a hard time replacing him with just one man. Probably will take two guys to replace his production. Maybe a good draft pick, and I bet that is what they are counting on.
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Old 03-25-2013, 08:57 PM   #142
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Yeah, Balt may regret letting Reed go, probably will. But again, who's the passrusher for the Broncos at RDE? RDE is a big deal in the NFL. That's one of the most important positions. A steady guy at RDE is a big deal, and that's what Elvis is. Maybe they can replace him, but they did try to lowball the guy, and will probably have a hard time replacing him with just one man. Probably will take two guys to replace his production. Maybe a good draft pick, and I bet that is what they are counting on.
IDK man he has been a Raven for a day so I think we can take our time and not freak out. Still free agents still out there capable of putting up 10 sacks in a season. Hell Trent Cole is 30 with with 71 career sacks and he might become a cap casualty and he plays RE. The FO could work out a deal to bring him in.
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:00 PM   #143
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Yeah, Balt may regret letting Reed go, probably will. But again, who's the passrusher for the Broncos at RDE? RDE is a big deal in the NFL. That's one of the most important positions. A steady guy at RDE is a big deal, and that's what Elvis is. Maybe they can replace him, but they did try to lowball the guy, and will probably have a hard time replacing him with just one man. Probably will take two guys to replace his production. Maybe a good draft pick, and I bet that is what they are counting on.
If only we had a pass rusher who could get 16+ sacks next year.
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:05 PM   #144
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Denver is doing what IT feels is right. Baltimore didn't do a thing to keep its leaders, which is something you are bashing Denver for yet you let them slide? They tried to keep Ed Reed and lost him. Once they lost him because they low balled him they upped the offer to land Doom. Plan and simple.

I would rather be in our shoes replacing a pass rusher then a HOF safety any year. Hell if Denver had Dawkins this year no way do we mess up that last play in the post season. Good luck replacing Ed Reed with Sean Considine or some rookie
Elway's offer to Dumervil was a yeah we like you...but not that much. Just like with Tebow you got the feeling that Dum was not the direction Elway really wanted to go, especially for the money McD had tied up in his horrid contract. Everything John has done has been solid. I bet by years end we get more production out of this Defense than what we had last year.
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:22 PM   #145
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IDK man he has been a Raven for a day so I think we can take our time and not freak out. Still free agents still out there capable of putting up 10 sacks in a season. Hell Trent Cole is 30 with with 71 career sacks and he might become a cap casualty and he plays RE. The FO could work out a deal to bring him in.
We'll see. It's not all that easy to replace pass rushing RDE's that can beat NFL LT's as often as Elvis did. If Cole gets cut he'll still have to pass through waivers, yes?
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Old 03-25-2013, 09:38 PM   #146
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Elway's offer to Dumervil was a yeah we like you...but not that much. Just like with Tebow you got the feeling that Dum was not the direction Elway really wanted to go, especially for the money McD had tied up in his horrid contract. Everything John has done has been solid. I bet by years end we get more production out of this Defense than what we had last year.
Weeeeeell, we'll see. Maybe you're right. Gonna have to wait and see.
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Old 03-26-2013, 06:53 AM   #147
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Elam is a loser.
Solid analysis, keep it coming.
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:28 AM   #148
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Solid analysis, keep it coming.
I've already broke down Elam's game a billion times on the forum. If you think the Broncos need to use their #28 selection on a stiff-hipped, box safety in the NFL who consistently gets flagged for penalties, has poor tackling form (would rather murder a person on the field than wrap up) and is almost always one step late in coverage (hence him going for the big hit) be my guest.

If you watched any of the combine, read about his pro day or even watched his snaps this season (go to draftbreakdown.com and see it for yourself) -- you would get what I am talking about. Though, I assume you are a Gators fan and would rather be a homer than objectively critique a player on "your team."

He is not a complete player, nor what this defense needs on the back end of the field. I'm not the only one who feels this way either. Ask Mediator. Ask a bunch of other well-respected fans of college football and the draft.

His coverage awareness is not good. Do you really think that a 5'9 safety is going to be able to cover tight ends at the next level? This is where he excels in college, being able to be physical and press his man from getting off the line. Do you think that is honestly going to carry over in the NFL when he lines up next to Jimmy Graham, Rob Gronkowski, etc.? HELL NO. He is a mismatch waiting to happen. We already have a safety who fails to break on the ball in zone coverages because he lacks the mentality and instincts to do so consistently. Do you really want another guy who is going to get beat like that? Give me a break.

The best thing I can say about him is he gives great effort against the run and is extremely physical for his size. He also has a passion for the game and inspires people. Though, I'd prefer a player who can PLAY than a cheerleader.

Anyone who is advocating Elam @ #28 just simply does not understand how to evaluate a defensive back properly or understand what draft value is all about.

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Old 03-26-2013, 07:31 AM   #149
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Elam reminds me of TJ Ward. Not a bad thing, but I wouldn't want him in Round 1. I'd be okay with Round 2, but he'll be gone by then. I do like Shawn Williams and DJ Swearinger at SS quite a bit. I hope we wait to address Safety in Round 2 or 3.
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Old 03-26-2013, 07:36 AM   #150
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Elam reminds me of TJ Ward. Not a bad thing, but I wouldn't want him in Round 1. I'd be okay with Round 2, but he'll be gone by then. I do like Shawn Williams and DJ Swearinger at SS quite a bit. I hope we wait to address Safety in Round 2 or 3.
The only guy I would take at S near #28 is Cyprien -- and I'd rather trade down and get him in the early 30s. This isn't the kind of draft where you take a safety with your first pick, given the fact that Cyprien, Elam, Swearinger, Reid and a variety of other guys have good 2nd to 3rd round grades on them. IMHO, even Vacarro, is not going to be an ELITE difference maker at the NFL level. You have some guys who might make the Pro-Bowl, but will likely just be "solid" pros. Nothing awesome, nothing spectacular.

The reason I like Cyprien is because he is fundamentally sound and despite average timed speed, he plays faster on the field and gets to the ball effectively. He is good in his zones and when asked to play man, does a good job too. He doesn't blow assignments or miss tackles in a ridiculous manner like Elam does.
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