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Old 03-25-2013, 06:44 AM   #226
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Like I said, I don't like players with questionable work habits in the 1st. That's my big question with him. His upper body testing is downright pathetic for a DL. That speaks to lack of effort in the weight room. I don't want to roll the dice on a guy like that in the 1st and just assume that JDR will be able to light a fire under him. Elam, on the other hand, is a leader and hard worker who makes plays all over the field. I don't think there's much chance of him being a bust. He's a safer pick IMO and he also has upside. I know you don't like him much. That's fine. Agree to disagree.
For us it isn't just about JDR motivating him though. Its as simple as asking Miller his opinion, as the emergent leader of this team over the next 10 years.

If Miller, who knows him as well as anyone out there, says he can be motivated and/or that Miller himself will personally motivate him what more needs to be said? Unlike every other team in the NFL we have a pro-bowl caliber pass rusher who has already 1. been outspoken about Moore's pass rush skills 2. knows him very well personally, and 3. has taken an increasingly larger leadership role in this franchise.

You could make a strong argument that drafting Moore and letting Miller give him the "come to Jesus" talk is the next step the team should be asking Miller to make. He's already proven himself to be Superman on the field, this is the chance for him to be a leader in the locker room, the weight room, and off the field.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:46 AM   #227
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Drek, you are absolutely right that we aren't getting a perfect prospect at #28. My concern is taking a chance on a guy with serious questions regarding his work ethic. To me, that's the biggest red flag a player can have. You can coast by on talent at the collegiate level, but that won't get it done in the NFL. I'd rather take a chance on a guy who maybe didn't test as well as the elite prospects, but who will give a max effort on and off the field. I think those guys have a better chance of panning out than the great athlete who's satisfied to coast on his natural skills. I'm not willing put my eggs in the "JDR will get him motivated" basket.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:52 AM   #228
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Drek, you are absolutely right that we aren't getting a perfect prospect at #28. My concern is taking a chance on a guy with serious questions regarding his work ethic. To me, that's the biggest red flag a player can have. You can coast by on talent at the collegiate level, but that won't get it done in the NFL. I'd rather take a chance on a guy who maybe didn't test as well as the elite prospects, but who will give a max effort on and off the field. I think those guys have a better chance of panning out than the great athlete who's satisfied to coast on his natural skills. I'm not willing put my eggs in the "JDR will get him motivated" basket.
Totally agree. On a scale of 1 to 10......every day of the week, I'll take the guy with a 6 on talent, and a 10+ on effort......rather than the 10 on talent and 5 on effort.

Albert Haynesworth ring a bell? If a guy is lazy.....I don't really give a **** how talented he is.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:52 AM   #229
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For us it isn't just about JDR motivating him though. Its as simple as asking Miller his opinion, as the emergent leader of this team over the next 10 years.

If Miller, who knows him as well as anyone out there, says he can be motivated and/or that Miller himself will personally motivate him what more needs to be said? Unlike every other team in the NFL we have a pro-bowl caliber pass rusher who has already 1. been outspoken about Moore's pass rush skills 2. knows him very well personally, and 3. has taken an increasingly larger leadership role in this franchise.

You could make a strong argument that drafting Moore and letting Miller give him the "come to Jesus" talk is the next step the team should be asking Miller to make. He's already proven himself to be Superman on the field, this is the chance for him to be a leader in the locker room, the weight room, and off the field.
Yes, well, I'm not comfortable with basing a 1st round selection on the theoretical premise that Von will be Moore's Tony Robbins.
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Old 03-25-2013, 06:58 AM   #230
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Totally agree. On a scale of 1 to 10......every day of the week, I'll take the guy with a 6 on talent, and a 10+ on effort......rather than the 10 on talent and 5 on effort.

Albert Haynesworth ring a bell? If a guy is lazy.....I don't really give a **** how talented he is.
You should read the article I posted. On the field effort isn't the question. It is if he is going to be stupid off the field. On the field that guy brings it every down. You should go to www.draftbreakdown.com and watch his videos. They have pretty much every defensive snap he has played in a majority of his games in 2012. Fun stuff.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:02 AM   #231
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Denver post reported Denver offered Doom a 3 year 18 million offer. That is far below what the Ravens offered him. Good luck Doom hope you suck against the Broncos!
The Ravens was 5 years / 26 with able to get more. He got a 7.5 million dollar signing bonus from them, which was probably the deal breaker. But why should have Denver offered him a huge bonus when he just got over 4 million for getting cut? Dude is a weasel. Really hope someone takes care of business against him when we play.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:02 AM   #232
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You should read the article I posted. On the field effort isn't the question. It is if he is going to be stupid off the field. On the field that guy brings it every down. You should go to www.draftbreakdown.com and watch his videos. They have pretty much every defensive snap he has played in a majority of his games in 2012. Fun stuff.
I did. It was good. And as some of the scouts said.....it is puzzling.

How can a guy go 110% ON the field.....and be total opposite OFF the field? Bizarre indeed. Usually someone either has a good work ethic or they don't. Sounds like Allen Iverson......"We talkin' about PRACTICE?!?!"

Speculation that he'll "indulge" in the NFL party life has me mildly concerned. If he ultimately gets himself into trouble.....we know how Goodell views that crap.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:02 AM   #233
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On the field effort isn't the question.
True; the question is whether or not he's willing to do the tedious stuff off the field in terms of year round conditioning and weight training that's necessary to be a successful player at the NFL level. Gameday is the fun part. It's what he's doing with the rest of his time that concerns me.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:03 AM   #234
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NEXT MAN UP IS NOLE, SON.

I am beggining to think he just might be the steal of the draft.
I would have no problem whatsoever if DEN took Tank, Rhodes, Trufant or Te'o
with #28
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:06 AM   #235
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True; the question is whether or not he's willing to do the tedious stuff off the field in terms of year round conditioning and weight training that's necessary to be a successful player at the NFL level. Gameday is the fun part. It's what he's doing with the rest of his time that concerns me.
Yup. He may have gotten by in college with minimal effort while practicing or the weight room.....cause in college you can get by with freakish talent.

In the NFL, however, where everyone is bigger/stronger/faster.......hoping to get by on just your athletic ability, without all the program work.......won't cut it, I fear.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:07 AM   #236
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I did. It was good. And as some of the scouts said.....it is puzzling.

How can a guy go 110% ON the field.....and be total opposite OFF the field? Bizarre indeed. Usually someone either has a good work ethic or they don't. Sounds like Allen Iverson......"We talkin' about PRACTICE?!?!"

Speculation that he'll "indulge" in the NFL party life has me mildly concerned. If he ultimately gets himself into trouble.....we know how Goodell views that crap.
Because he is 20/21 years old and probably has maturity issues. Those things can be addressed or they can linger. I don't doubt his talent on the field, but like you and others wonder if he can put it together off the field. That is why instead of being a Top 5 - 10 guy (which he clearly is on tape) he is being discussed as a late-first round guy. For anyone to argue that he is bad value @ #28 is just absurd.

I love Carradine, but do we take a guy who blew out his knee with that selection? I would love him because I know how good he is because I'm a Noles fan, but I'm not sure we can hope for the best there. Medical will determine everything for him. He is a Top 10 talent had he not blew out his leg. However, he could be Erasmus James / Vikings Part II.

Datone Jones, who isn't even close to as good as a pass rusher as Moore? No thanks.

If Moore falls to the Broncos, I hope he is considered. They should bring him in for a private workout and interview and go from there. I think that having a teammate and good coaches can help calm some of the outside baggage surrounding him. We already know he can play on the field.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:10 AM   #237
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True; the question is whether or not he's willing to do the tedious stuff off the field in terms of year round conditioning and weight training that's necessary to be a successful player at the NFL level. Gameday is the fun part. It's what he's doing with the rest of his time that concerns me.
I would say that a transition into a quality weight / strength / conditioning program and being dedicated in the weight room is a legitimate concern for a lot of college prospects. I hope that a guy would realize that the aforementioned is a big part of success for his future career.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:13 AM   #238
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Because he is 20/21 years old and probably has maturity issues. Those things can be addressed or they can linger. I don't doubt his talent on the field, but like you and others wonder if he can put it together off the field. That is why instead of being a Top 5 - 10 guy (which he clearly is on tape) he is being discussed as a late-first round guy. For anyone to argue that he is bad value @ #28 is just absurd.

I love Carradine, but do we take a guy who blew out his knee with that selection? I would love him because I know how good he is because I'm a Noles fan, but I'm not sure we can hope for the best there. Medical will determine everything for him. He is a Top 10 talent had he not blew out his leg. However, he could be Erasmus James / Vikings Part II.

Datone Jones, who isn't even close to as good as a pass rusher as Moore? No thanks.

If Moore falls to the Broncos, I hope he is considered. They should bring him in for a private workout and interview and go from there. I think that having a teammate and good coaches can help calm some of the outside baggage surrounding him. We already know he can play on the field.
I still think Carradine will be fine. Knee injuries are not what they used to be.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:16 AM   #239
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I would say that a transition into a quality weight / strength / conditioning program and being dedicated in the weight room is a legitimate concern for a lot of college prospects. I hope that a guy would realize that the aforementioned is a big part of success for his future career.
Well, I'll say I do trust the front office to do their homework. I've been satisfied (for the most part) with the way they've conducted their drafts thus far, so if they decide that they are satisfied on the character/work ethic questions and take him at #28, I'll probably be cautiously optimistic. But I'm typically a glass is half full guy when it comes to football anyway.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:17 AM   #240
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I still think Carradine will be fine. Knee injuries are not what they used to be.
I think so too. Unlike some of the other hybrid/tweener guys at OLB/DE -- this guy can man it down at RE and replace Dumervil. He almost killed Sean Renfree in the Duke game a minute or two into it. Guy rushes the passer well and is extremely well-rounded against the run. Sniffs out stuff quickly. StuuUUD!
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:17 AM   #241
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I'd rather take a chance on Carradine's knee than Moore's work ethic, I'll say that.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:22 AM   #242
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If Moore falls to the Broncos, I hope he is considered. They should bring him in for a private workout and interview and go from there. I think that having a teammate and good coaches can help calm some of the outside baggage surrounding him. We already know he can play on the field.
Well, we already know he can play on the field......IN COLLEGE. But we also know the NFL is a different animal.

We'll see. I'm not arguing that he wouldn't be a good pick at #28. I'm just agreeing with BI that work ethic issues are ALWAYS a concern for me.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:22 AM   #243
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I'd rather take a chance on Carradine's knee than Moore's work ethic, I'll say that.
Nice post.
Sums up my thoughts on the DE position at #28.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:22 AM   #244
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But why should have Denver offered him a huge bonus when he just got over 4 million for getting cut?
Just fyi, he didn't get anything from the Broncos for getting cut. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying?
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:24 AM   #245
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Just fyi, he didn't get anything from the Broncos for getting cut. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying?
I'm cap retarded. So when Denver had to take a cap hit for releasing Dumervil, he didn't get any of that money
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:27 AM   #246
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Yes, well, I'm not comfortable with basing a 1st round selection on the theoretical premise that Von will be Moore's Tony Robbins.
Tony Robbins, wtf? Drek is right, Von has personal knowledge of the guy and a pipeline to the program. He is so diligent about every aspect of his career, no way would he gamble for "Aggie pride." With Doom gone, Von in the room is an even bigger presence.

That said, I do prefer more predictable 1st-rounders, I'm hoping Hankins or Trufant. One should be there, both are low-risk long-term star/starters.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:29 AM   #247
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So when Denver had to take a cap hit for releasing Dumervil, he didn't get any of that money
Correct. That cap hit was for money he was already paid. His bonus paid earlier in the contract was spread out beyond the year it was paid for cap purposes.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:30 AM   #248
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I would be surprised if Hankins or Trufant were there. IMHO, they will go early. If Miami takes a DB (like Rhodes) at #12, Trufant does not make it to #28. And FWIW, I think Nawlins could take either of those guys. Minnesota has two picks in front of us and could use both them too.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:41 AM   #249
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I would be surprised if Hankins or Trufant were there. IMHO, they will go early. If Miami takes a DB (like Rhodes) at #12, Trufant does not make it to #28.
Uh, thanks sunshine.

You're right about Barrett Jones btw, I owe you a beer.
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Old 03-25-2013, 07:43 AM   #250
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Uh, thanks sunshine.

You're right about Barrett Jones btw, I owe you a beer.
I'm just trying to help you out. I would LOVE for those guys to be there. . . but unless they queef on a cop or something, they will not be there.
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