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Old 03-23-2013, 08:31 AM   #326
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Speaking from experience on the educational side of it, its absolutely not true in the hard sciences. That are not very many people of faith on the instructor side. The ones that are, simply believe more along the lines that religion is nothing more than a social institution. And certainly you wont find any fundamentalists (ie literalists) in any sort of well respected institution. And no, Colorado Christian Bible College and its peers are not well respected institutions.

There is this funny idea floating around that there are all these numerous religious people working in fields like genetics for example who don't believe in evolution or folks in physics who don't believe in in the big bang or others working in geology and archeology who are young earth creationists. Are there zero of these? No. But they are very very very few and far between. And in the community that publishes research they are practically non-existent. To suggest otherwise is intellectually dishonest at best.

You should think a little harder about your notion that they dont have any reason to make this stuff up. They have every reason to pat themselves on the back when they are in an environment where all the data is contrary to what they taught to be believe by their parents or read out of a book that contains mostly borrowed stories from neighboring cultures. Denial is a funny thing.
ok fine, but again, I don't think there is an open hostility toward personal beliefs or religious beliefs in these fields, that is, it's a non-issue as opposed to the Bachelor or Arts fields.

Either way I agree, the universities and colleges are not tolerant of conservative values, so we agree there. And again, colleges and universities are supposed to be open to different opinions and beliefs, the fact is, they are not. In fact and as you have supported, they are very much closed off to people of faith. Unless you tote their lines on things you are labeled as a bigot or stupid or worse.

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Old 03-23-2013, 08:51 AM   #327
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ok fine, but again, I don't think there is a hostility toward personal beliefs or religious beliefs in these fields, that is, it's a non-issue as opposed to the Bachelor or Arts fields.
You can be in the Humanities and Social Sciences and still not get a Bachelor of Arts degree and can go the Bachelor of Science route. That would be the case for most people. Curriculum requirements are dependent on the institution, but where I went you don't get a B.A. unless you gain proficiency in a foreign language or take enough communicative courses (linguistics, etc.).

As I've said, I never had any professor in all my years of undergraduate push their beliefs on me or were ever hostile to religion, etc. I earned my double major and spent time in almost every discipline in AH&SS and never came across one anti-religious, anti-conservative rant in all my time there.

In fact, I had many POLS, ANTH, SOC and PHIL professors who were actually quite religious. It baffled me that my favorite professor of ANTH was actually a devout Catholic and will remain one his whole life. I know prominent archaeologists who are even religious, but yes, due to their expertise in their field, would never adhere to Early Earth Creation theory.

That isn't being hostile. That is using common sense. You guys keep on saying that educations of higher learning are hostile to non-liberal opinions, but have never offered any instances, stories or proof otherwise. As I've said, it is a punchline and a dishonest approach to debating.

Not every college or university in America is UC Berkeley, no matter how hard you try and act like they are. And one or two far out professors speaking their minds (when they probably aren't supposed to press their beliefs on others) doesn't mean it is common place across the country.
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:53 AM   #328
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ok fine, but again, I don't think there is an open hostility toward personal beliefs or religious beliefs in these fields, that is, it's a non-issue as opposed to the Bachelor or Arts fields.

Either way I agree, the universities and colleges are not tolerant of conservative values, so we agree there. And again, colleges and universities are supposed to be open to different opinions and beliefs, the fact is, they are not. In fact and as you have supported, they are very much closed off to people of faith. Unless you tote their lines on things you are labeled as a bigot or stupid or worse.
That isn't what he said at all.
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:58 AM   #329
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You can be in the Humanities and Social Sciences and still not get a Bachelor of Arts degree and can go the Bachelor of Science route. That would be the case for most people. Curriculum requirements are dependent on the institution, but where I went you don't get a B.A. unless you gain proficiency in a foreign language or take enough communicative courses (linguistics, etc.).

As I've said, I never had any professor in all my years of undergraduate push their beliefs on me or were ever hostile to religion, etc. I earned my double major and spent time in almost every discipline in AH&SS and never came across one anti-religious, anti-conservative rant in all my time there.

In fact, I had many POLS, ANTH, SOC and PHIL professors who were actually quite religious. It baffled me that my favorite professor of ANTH was actually a devout Catholic and will remain one his whole life. I know prominent archaeologists who are even religious, but yes, due to their expertise in their field, would never adhere to Early Earth Creation theory.

That isn't being hostile. That is using common sense. You guys keep on saying that educations of higher learning are hostile to non-liberal opinions, but have never offered any instances, stories or proof otherwise. As I've said, it is a punchline and a dishonest approach to debating.

Not every college or university in America is UC Berkeley, no matter how hard you try and act like they are. And one or two far out professors speaking their minds (when they probably aren't supposed to press their beliefs on others) doesn't mean it is common place across the country.
I grew up on Colorado and I remember stories about CU professors saying some outrageous things yet being tolerated by the administration because these professors were spouting off liberal crap, so that is one example. I'm not going to go dig up links and whatnot to prove the point. Jekyll15Hyde seems to be supporting my accusations and we are discussinig this because it is an issue. It's ubiquitous and tacit all over the colleges and universities in the USA, it's a conditional thing, systemic. You are the proverbial man who can't see the forest through the trees IMHO. We can agree to disagree.
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:03 AM   #330
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Yeah. You heard "stories." You are full of it and obviously can't decipher what Jekyll actually said. He never spoke of hostility, he just talked about the fact that there are few religious people in hard science disciplines because they wouldn't be taken seriously and almost non of them can get actual studies published because they are not taken seriously in the peer review process.

And as I've said, people who continue their education are going to end up being liberal. Most kids realize that the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus and related childhood mythology is just that. I grew past religion when before I was even a teenager because I realized it was self-limiting bull****. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that what a majority of our ignorant population believes is borrowed time, myth and stories from cultures who predated "the great religion" by thousands of years.
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:03 AM   #331
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That isn't what he said at all.
ok, what did he say? I was referring back to his original post on the subject (320) and his overall opinion on the subject.
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:06 AM   #332
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Yeah. You heard "stories." You are full of it and obviously can't decipher what Jekyll actually said. He never spoke of hostility, he just talked about the fact that there are few religious people in hard science disciplines because they wouldn't be taken seriously and almost non of them can get actual studies published because they are not taken seriously in the peer review process.

And as I've said, people who continue their education are going to end up being liberal. Most kids realize that the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus and related childhood mythology is just that. I grew past religion when before I was even a teenager because I realized it was self-limiting bull****. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that what a majority of our ignorant population believes is borrowed time, myth and stories from cultures who predated "the great religion" by thousands of years.
again, hostility, congrats on proving my point Mr. Enlightenment.
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:10 AM   #333
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again, hostility, congrats on proving my point Mr. Enlightenment.
Except this isn't in the realm of higher education, it is a message board. What I said wasn't hostile it was my opinion. I find religion to be self-limiting and rather hypocritical and most of the people who talk the talk, don't walk the walk.

Want to talk about politics getting negatively getting in the way of higher education?

Read this.

Derp.
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:12 AM   #334
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These laws would have stopped James Holmes as much as the FIREARMS PROHIBITED sign sitting at the ticket counter at Century Aurora clearly did.
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:14 AM   #335
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Except this isn't in the realm of higher education, it is a message board. What I said wasn't hostile it was my opinion. I find religion to be self-limiting and rather hypocritical and most of the people who talk the talk, don't walk the walk.
True, but that can be said about anything. I find some of the most hostile and intolerant people in society those who loudly proclaim how "tolerant" they are.
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:17 AM   #336
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What's the point in having high capacity clips? Seems like people just want it just to have it.
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:19 AM   #337
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As I've said, I never had any professor in all my years of undergraduate push their beliefs on me or were ever hostile to religion, etc.
Wow, you're lucky. My freshman English comp professor was both. She wore her 1/4 Lakota identity on her sleeve and laid into greater WASP capitalist pig society the whole semester and earned a 10 page rag letter from me per her bull****ting sent also to her bosses

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Old 03-23-2013, 10:20 AM   #338
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What's the point in having high capacity clips? Seems like people just want it just to have it.
If you don't know a magazine isn't called a clip anywhere but among the gun illiterate who pick up the term from music and movies, you don't know what you're talking about.

Move along.
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:53 AM   #339
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What about people who already have the 30 round clips? Do they have to turn them in?
No, but if you own one and your wife touches one even for a moment, you are both criminals. In fact, that she could touch it if she wanted to is probably "constructive possession" and you are both criminals. If it isn't yet, some judge in Denver or Boulder will make it so soon and some good citizen will go to jail.

The people who passed this are either morons or monsters. Take your pick. I pick monsters.
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:12 AM   #340
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ok, what did he say? I was referring back to his original post on the subject (320) and his overall opinion on the subject.
I think what Req is pointing out is that you are struggling to deflect the course of the dialogue.

My original point: The math and science side doesn't have a place for conservative & religious mindsets. Yet these are the fields of study that are most fiercely in opposition the old tribal knowledge and superstition that are the basis of these mindsets. These fields deal in facts, observation, and the scientific method. There is no liberal agenda here.

Your reply: Well the people that you know in the engineering field say that religious people are more respected in the during the academic process because many of these professors are actually religious people too. I trust these people because they have absolutely no incentive to make this up.

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Old 03-23-2013, 11:23 AM   #341
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I think what Req is pointing out is that you are struggling to deflect the course of the dialogue.

My original point: The math and science side doesn't have a place for conservative & religious mindsets. Yet these are the fields of study that are most fiercely in opposition the old tribal knowledge and superstition that are the basis of these mindsets. These fields deal in facts, observation, and the scientific method. There is no liberal agenda here.

Your reply: Well the people that you know in the engineering field say that religious people are more respected in the during the academic process because many of these professors are actually religious people too. I trust these people because they have absolutely no incentive to make this up.

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yes, that is what I said and yes, you have said this is not the case in which my reply was then you are backing up my original accusation. Congrats.
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:56 AM   #342
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I grew up on Colorado and I remember stories about CU professors saying some outrageous things yet being tolerated by the administration because these professors were spouting off liberal crap, so that is one example. I'm not going to go dig up links and whatnot to prove the point. Jekyll15Hyde seems to be supporting my accusations and we are discussinig this because it is an issue. It's ubiquitous and tacit all over the colleges and universities in the USA, it's a conditional thing, systemic. You are the proverbial man who can't see the forest through the trees IMHO. We can agree to disagree.
Ward Churchill was probably the most well known.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Churchill
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Old 03-23-2013, 12:05 PM   #343
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Typically those that complain about Universities being "intolerant" to conservative viewpoints are those without the intellectual maturity to understand that disagreeing with someone is not being intolerant of them.

It's also typically folks who think that University is a place to go get a job skill, which it is not.
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Old 03-23-2013, 01:43 PM   #344
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yes, that is what I said and yes, you have said this is not the case in which my reply was then you are backing up my original accusation. Congrats.
You aren't following this very well. The core part of your original accusation is that you want to assign all of this in academia to intolerance and some sort of hidden liberal agenda. In the most contentious issues on the religious side, that couldn't be further from the truth.
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Old 03-23-2013, 01:55 PM   #345
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You aren't following this very well. The core part of your original accusation is that you want to assign all of this in academia to intolerance and some sort of hidden liberal agenda. In the most contentious issues on the religious side, that couldn't be further from the truth.
So what is the truth?
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Old 03-23-2013, 03:36 PM   #346
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What's the point in having high capacity clips? Seems like people just want it just to have it.
One thing life has taught me is "you never know..." and that almost "anything is possible..."

You don't know if one day you're driving thru L.A. or another megatropolis and all of a sudden a mob of people start throwing rocks and attacking your car because they felt victimized for whatever reason.....ask Reginald Denny if he wishes he had an AR-15 with 30 round magazine.
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Old 03-23-2013, 03:37 PM   #347
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Ward Churchill was probably the most well known.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Churchill

Yeah, I had forgotten about that piece of trailer trash. Pretty much everything that came from his pie-hole was a lie, from stories of his time as a Ranger (he was never in the Rangers, nor did he go to jump school - he was a truck driver) to his "ethnic makeup". All lies.

is it any wonder why so many people are down on "professors"?
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Old 03-23-2013, 03:44 PM   #348
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Wow, you're lucky. My freshman English comp professor was both. She wore her 1/4 Lakota identity on her sleeve and laid into greater WASP capitalist pig society the whole semester and earned a 10 page rag letter from me per her bull****ting sent also to her bosses

Yeah, there's no liberal bull**** agenda in higher learning......

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2013/03/21...step-on-jesus/

What's is sad is that had the professor told the students to stomp on the "Mohammed" instead of "Jesus", the professor would have been suspended or fired.....
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Old 03-23-2013, 03:48 PM   #349
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Typically those that complain about Universities being "intolerant" to conservative viewpoints are those without the intellectual maturity to understand that disagreeing with someone is not being intolerant of them.

It's also typically folks who think that University is a place to go get a job skill, which it is not.
......YEAH, RIGHT!
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Old 03-23-2013, 03:49 PM   #350
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Yeah, there's no liberal bull**** agenda in higher learning......

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2013/03/21...step-on-jesus/

What's is sad is that had the professor told the students to stomp on the "Mohammed" instead of "Jesus", the professor would have been suspended or fired.....
BS.
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