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Old 03-21-2013, 01:31 PM   #376
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You left out Lewis and Pollard as players they lost on D and Matt Birk on O. The leadership is gone from that D, and Doom isn't going to bring that back to them.
Exactly
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:35 PM   #377
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Broncos' fans have already talked themselves into think Dumerville isn't that good.
Some of us have bothered to learn how to spell his name though...
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:36 PM   #378
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Price I agree with you that losing Doom will be unfortunate and that he'll be a big loss. But you can't really blame the Broncos FO. They understandably weren't willing to pay him $12 million. They tried, reluctantly, to pay him $8 million. He and his agent dragged their feet until the last minute and it didn't get done. Now they can't get $8 million under the cap so they're offering less. Doom and his agent aren't taking it. Could still get done, but not looking good. Nobody else seems to be in a hurry to pay him what he wants, either. The only thing we know for sure is that whoever we end up with it won't cost $12 million (what Doom was supposed to make), and it won't cost $8 million (what they tried to pay him and Doom agreed to before faxgate). Trust in Elway, Fox and Del Rio to make due with what they'll have instead.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:38 PM   #379
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I love Doom and all but, lets be real here. Last year was the first year since he has been a member of the Broncos that we won more then 9 games. So ask yourself for all the stats he puts up do they equal wins?
Then again, we won the division that last 2 years. And Doom was on those teams...so your point?
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:39 PM   #380
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cool it guys, pricejj is lord of the cap
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:40 PM   #381
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You're blaming Cutler/Orton/Tebow on Dumervil?

You should blame the Colt's 2011 season on Freeney then.

Logic fail.
I don't think either Freeney or Dumervil can carry a D without Manning kicking ass on O. Neither are Reggie White.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:40 PM   #382
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Broncos' fans have already talked themselves into think Dumerville isn't that good.
He's good, that's not the issue. Issue is he isn't worth breaking the bank for or overpaying for. We can produce 75% of his sack totals for less than half the price
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:42 PM   #383
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Some of us have bothered to learn how to spell his name though...
ouch
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:44 PM   #384
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Price I agree with you that losing Doom will be unfortunate and that he'll be a big loss. But you can't really blame the Broncos FO. They understandably weren't willing to pay him $12 million. They tried, reluctantly, to pay him $8 million. He and his agent dragged their feet until the last minute and it didn't get done. Now they can't get $8 million under the cap so they're offering less. Doom and his agent aren't taking it. Could still get done, but not looking good. Nobody else seems to be in a hurry to pay him what he wants, either. The only thing we know for sure is that whoever we end up with it won't cost $12 million (what Doom was supposed to make), and it won't cost $8 million (what they tried to pay him and Doom agreed to before faxgate). Trust in Elway, Fox and Del Rio to make due with what they'll have instead.
I'm not blaming the FO. They have a salary cap to work under, and they did the right thing by cutting Dumervil. His previous deal was unworkable, which Magid refused to concede.

However, it seems that Dumervil only has a minor issue with the new contract (year 2). If that's true, they should be able to work it out. Screw Condon's priorities.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:45 PM   #385
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Producing sacks isn't the biggest issue IMO. Forced fumbles and rushing the QB into incompletes/ints are the issue.

How many FFs does Ayers have his entire football career pro or college?
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:48 PM   #386
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Producing sacks isn't the biggest issue IMO. Forced fumbles and rushing the QB into incompletes/ints are the issue.

How many FFs does Ayers have his entire football career pro or college?
FFs are kind of a flukey stat. Doom had six last season, but zero in 2011.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...D/DumeEl20.htm
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:52 PM   #387
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I think that if you spell Elvis last name "Dumerville" you should be banned. He is not a Human-Cadillac hybrid.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:53 PM   #388
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Considering Kruger was a terror last year toward the end of the season, i'm not sure it'll be THAT much of a difference.
Toward the end of the season yes, but take into consideration that was also the first time in his career. He wasn't the only Ravens player to show up on payday for the first time in his career.

Yes, Doom would be an upgrade.

A guy who has shown he can do it consistently, or a guy who hasn't cracked the starting rotation for two years, and made the most of limited snaps on a playoff bound team.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:55 PM   #389
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I think that if you spell Elvis last name "Dumerville" you should be banned. He is not a Human-Cadillac hybrid.
I kind of like Dumberville at this point.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:59 PM   #390
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You left out Lewis and Pollard as players they lost on D and Matt Birk on O. The leadership is gone from that D, and Doom isn't going to bring that back to them.
Pollard took stupid penalties, and could be easily upgraded. Ray Lewis was more of a hindrance than a help, and they have young players on that line who can fill the leadership void of Birk.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:02 PM   #391
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Defense was bottom of the league when Cutler was at QB and dead last McDaniels/Studsville year.
McDaniels/Studeville year? You mean the year that Doom didn't play?

Let's see:

Doom gets 17 sacks = Denver has the #7 D
Doom doesn't play = Denver has the #32 D

Let's just get rid of him. It probably doesn't matter.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:04 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by DBroncos4life View Post
I love Doom and all but, lets be real here. Last year was the first year since he has been a member of the Broncos that we won more then 9 games. So ask yourself for all the stats he puts up do they equal wins?
That is true for any player. No player wins in a vacuum, Calvin Johnson had one of the single most dominant seasons any WR has ever had in the history of the game but his team didn't win a lot of games so does that mean he is a crap WR? Adrian Peterson had an all-time great season for a RB, but the Vikings have had some pretty seasons with him there, does that mean he is just another half decent RB?

Hell, in 2006, Champ Bailey had more interceptions than he allowed receptions and posted maybe the most dominant season of a CB since they made it against the rules for CBs to assault WRs before they had the ball - but that year the Broncos were a pretty pedestrian 8-8, does that mean Champ is really not nearly as good as Tracy Porter who has won a super bowl?
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:06 PM   #393
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Pollard took stupid penalties, and could be easily upgraded. Ray Lewis was more of a hindrance than a help, and they have young players on that line who can fill the leadership void of Birk.
Come on Pollard pretty much beat the Pats in the playoffs by himself and Ray Lewis sparked that team. You are nuts to think that the Ravens can just replace Ed Reed and Ray Lewis in one off-season and not miss a beat.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:09 PM   #394
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Originally Posted by gyldenlove View Post
That is true for any player. No player wins in a vacuum, Calvin Johnson had one of the single most dominant seasons any WR has ever had in the history of the game but his team didn't win a lot of games so does that mean he is a crap WR? Adrian Peterson had an all-time great season for a RB, but the Vikings have had some pretty seasons with him there, does that mean he is just another half decent RB?

Hell, in 2006, Champ Bailey had more interceptions than he allowed receptions and posted maybe the most dominant season of a CB since they made it against the rules for CBs to assault WRs before they had the ball - but that year the Broncos were a pretty pedestrian 8-8, does that mean Champ is really not nearly as good as Tracy Porter who has won a super bowl?
It was a ridiculous argument, and you can see he is not trying to defend it, nor should he.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:14 PM   #395
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umm, if the idiot got his signed contract in on time, he'd be getting 8 mil from the broncos. (good christos.)
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:20 PM   #396
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That is true for any player. No player wins in a vacuum, Calvin Johnson had one of the single most dominant seasons any WR has ever had in the history of the game but his team didn't win a lot of games so does that mean he is a crap WR? Adrian Peterson had an all-time great season for a RB, but the Vikings have had some pretty seasons with him there, does that mean he is just another half decent RB?

Hell, in 2006, Champ Bailey had more interceptions than he allowed receptions and posted maybe the most dominant season of a CB since they made it against the rules for CBs to assault WRs before they had the ball - but that year the Broncos were a pretty pedestrian 8-8, does that mean Champ is really not nearly as good as Tracy Porter who has won a super bowl?
AP carried the Vikings to the playoffs last year and I think if he was cut like Doom was this off-season teams would have been tripping all over themselves to land him.

The point here is most posters kept saying Doom was worth his contract and we are retarded to think he wouldn't get more then the others out there on the market. Now we are finding out is he might not even be worth the offer he was minutes away from getting. Why do you think that is? We have paid him a TON along with Champ and the team gain has been far less then what we have paid for don't you think?
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:31 PM   #397
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McDaniels/Studeville year? You mean the year that Doom didn't play?

Let's see:

Doom gets 17 sacks = Denver has the #7 D
Doom doesn't play = Denver has the #32 D

Let's just get rid of him. It probably doesn't matter.
#12 D if you are going by points, because I could give a **** less about yards.

I'm sure if we aren't a Top 5 defense next year but still in the Top 10, you will scream "Wah Dumervil."

Don't care at this point. He will never put up 17 sacks in a season ever again unless he has the opportunity to play in a 3-4.

I'm confident that a rotation of players and a selected draft choice can keep this team moving in the right direction. If he wants to accept the deal offered, great. If not? **** him.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:32 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by MagicHef View Post
McDaniels/Studeville year? You mean the year that Doom didn't play?

Let's see:

Doom gets 17 sacks = Denver has the #7 D
Doom doesn't play = Denver has the #32 D

Let's just get rid of him. It probably doesn't matter.
Correlation does not imply causation.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:41 PM   #399
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#12 D if you are going by points, because I could give a **** less about yards.

I'm sure if we aren't a Top 5 defense next year but still in the Top 10, you will scream "Wah Dumervil."

Don't care at this point. He will never put up 17 sacks in a season ever again unless he has the opportunity to play in a 3-4.

I'm confident that a rotation of players and a selected draft choice can keep this team moving in the right direction. If he wants to accept the deal offered, great. If not? **** him.
Great point. A 20 spot drop in a 32 team league isn't significant. Especially when there's really only one difference between the defensive starters in 2009 and the defensive starters in 2010.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:44 PM   #400
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Correlation does not imply causation.
Of course it can imply causation. It doesn't prove it, but it sure can imply it.
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