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Old 03-21-2013, 12:41 PM   #351
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So let me get this straight, you and Broncos Inferno would take the Ayers/Freeney combo over Dumervil? The cost is equal.

Give me Dumervil over those two, any day of the week.
The cost is equal? Prove it.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:42 PM   #352
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So let me get this straight, you and Broncos Inferno would take the Ayers/Freeney combo over Dumervil? The cost is equal.

Give me Dumervil over those two, any day of the week.
How do you figure the cost is equal?

Anyway, I don't think losing Dumervil is the end of the world, that's all. I don't think it ends our Super Bowl chances. Football isn't basketball. With the exception of the QB position or a HOF talent (which Doom is not), you can move on just fine from the Doom's of the world. Would I prefer we keep him? Sure. But it's not a disaster.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:47 PM   #353
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How do you figure the cost is equal?

Anyway, I don't think losing Dumervil is the end of the world, that's all. I don't think it ends our Super Bowl chances. Football isn't basketball. With the exception of the QB position or a HOF talent (which Doom is not), you can move on just fine from the Doom's of the world. Would I prefer we keep him? Sure. But it's not a disaster.
To add to this, I think the additions we've made in FA minus the cost of losing Doom is still overall a net gain. I think we're a better team than we were at the end of the season, and that's before the draft. So, I feel pretty good about the team even without Doom. Again, I'd be thrilled if we could find a way to keep him, but it's not an epic disaster if we don't.

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Old 03-21-2013, 12:53 PM   #354
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The cost is equal? Prove it.
Freeney is estimated to be $4M-$5M per year (I'm assuming they sign him to a two year contract). Ayers is $2.24M this year, and is an FA next year (he won't be cheaper as a starter).

Ayers/Freeney combo is roughly $7M-$8M per year...just like Dumervil.

Except, the Broncos will have to draft an RDE in the 1st soon, instead of having that position locked up for the next 3+ years. I can think of plenty of other positions that I would rather spend a 1st round draft pick on (LB, Safety, RB, etc.)
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:54 PM   #355
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To add to this, I think the additions we've made in FA minus the cost of losing Doom is still overall a net gain. I think we're a better team than we were at the end of the season, and that's before the draft. So, I feel pretty good about the team even without Doom. Again, I'd be thrilled if we could find a way to keep him, but it's not an epic disaster if we don't.
We're definitely not a better defense by any stretch of the imagination. And I'm not a big fan of replacing good defense with better offense. It rarely works when January comes around.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:57 PM   #356
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Freeney is estimated to be $4M-$5M per year (I'm assuming they sign him to a two year contract). Ayers is $2.24M this year, and is an FA next year (he won't be cheaper as a starter).

Ayers/Freeney combo is roughly $7M-$8M per year...just like Dumervil.

Except, the Broncos will have to draft an RDE in the 1st soon, instead of having that position locked up for the next 3+ years. I can think of plenty of other positions that I would rather spend a 1st round draft pick on (LB, Safety, RB, etc.)
Remind me again what round Elvis was selected in? Jumping to conclusions is a game in Office Space

Ayers is already on the team. Including his salary in the converation doesnt make sense. Why not cut Ayers and give his money to Elvis
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:57 PM   #357
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Freeney is estimated to be $4M-$5M per year (I'm assuming they sign him to a two year contract). Ayers is $2.24M this year, and is an FA next year (he won't be cheaper as a starter).

Ayers/Freeney combo is roughly $7M-$8M per year...just like Dumervil.

Except, the Broncos will have to draft an RDE in the 1st soon, instead of having that position locked up for the next 3+ years. I can think of plenty of other positions that I would rather spend a 1st round draft pick on (LB, Safety, RB, etc.)
Estimated means dick and also does Ayers play for free if we keep Doom?
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:58 PM   #358
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Freeney is estimated to be $4M-$5M per year (I'm assuming they sign him to a two year contract). Ayers is $2.24M this year, and is an FA next year (he won't be cheaper as a starter).

Ayers/Freeney combo is roughly $7M-$8M per year...just like Dumervil.

Except, the Broncos will have to draft an RDE in the 1st soon, instead of having that position locked up for the next 3+ years. I can think of plenty of other positions that I would rather spend a 1st round draft pick on (LB, Safety, RB, etc.)
Ayers was going to remain on the roster even if we kept Doom, so his salary isn't relevant. In other words, you'd have to add Ayers salary to Dooms as well in your exercise.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:59 PM   #359
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If Doom was "underwhelmed" why hasn't he signed with the Ravens? Are they offering less than we are?
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:00 PM   #360
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The team was probably going to spend an early selection on a DE sometime soon in the first place, considering Ayers is in the last year of his contract and behind Wolfe and Jackson, we have nobody else.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:02 PM   #361
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We're definitely not a better defense by any stretch of the imagination. And I'm not a big fan of replacing good defense with better offense. It rarely works when January comes around.
Exactly. Signing Dumervil, or signing all those FA's is not mutually exclusive.

There are plenty of players on this team carrying over-priced contracts who shuld be cut/restructured (Prater, Tamme, McGahee, Moreno, Willis, Ball, Bradley, Mays, etc.).

Finding an extra couple million shouldn't be an issue. If Dumervil's only problem with the offered contract is 'year 2', bump it up and seal the deal for Superbowl's sakes.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:03 PM   #362
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We're definitely not a better defense by any stretch of the imagination.
We'll have to see what they do if Doom leaves. Abraham, for instance, had only one fewer sack than Doom last season, and matched his 9.5 sacks in 2011. Clearly, it would not be a terribly significant downgrade if we signed him. Additionally, Knighton is a pretty big upgrade over Bannan in the middle. And, considering we basically got nothing out of Tracy Porter, DRC is a big upgrade in the secondary as well. And we still have the draft left. So, I'm not ready to concede that the defense is significantly downgraded. It depends.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:05 PM   #363
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Ayers was going to remain on the roster even if we kept Doom, so his salary isn't relevant. In other words, you'd have to add Ayers salary to Dooms as well in your exercise.
Year 2 (2014) is the only issue. We either carry Dumervil for $8M in 2014, or sign Freeney, and re-sign Ayers in 2014 for a combined total of $8M. Same flipping difference.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:05 PM   #364
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If Doom was "underwhelmed" why hasn't he signed with the Ravens? Are they offering less than we are?
Willing to bet they are and also betting he'll take their deal.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:06 PM   #365
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And why not? We don't have gaping holes to fill. If a DE is the best player on the board, take him.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:06 PM   #366
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Ayers CAP HIT is $2.24M. If you're going to compare cap hits, you need to add Dumervil's dead money, or at least his original SB allocated to 2013. That makes his charge higher than the $7-8M you're using.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:07 PM   #367
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We'll have to see what they do if Doom leaves. Abraham, for instance, had only one fewer sack than Doom last season, and matched his 9.5 sacks in 2011. Clearly, it would not be a terribly significant downgrade if we signed him.
I've read reports saying that Abraham favors the Patriots over the Broncos, if the money is equal. Abraham spurned the Broncos 6 years ago too. Not going to overpay for a 35 year old, who doesn't even want to play in Denver.

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Ayers CAP HIT is $2.24M. If you're going to compare cap hits, you need to add Dumervil's dead money, or at least his original SB allocated to 2013. That makes his charge higher than the $7-8M you're using.
Dumervil's dead money is a sunk cost. It doesn't have anything to do with decisions going forward, except the fact that we already paid him $37M over the past 3 seasons, which should count for something to him, but probably doesn't.

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Old 03-21-2013, 01:11 PM   #368
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I've read reports saying that Abraham favors the Patriots over the Broncos, if the money is equal. Abraham spurned the Broncos 6 years ago too. Not going to overpay for a 35 year old, who doesn't even want to play in Denver.
Like I said, we'll just have to wait and see what happens. Patience. If they sign Freeney and spend our first two draft picks on offensive players, then I'll start to get concerned about the defense. But I'm not going to get worked up without see the complete picture. Hell, it's not even a certainty that Doom isn't returning. He may not be impressed with our offer, but I doubt Baltimore is backing up the Brinks truck, either.

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Old 03-21-2013, 01:12 PM   #369
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If he wants money over a Lombardi, that's HIS problem. The Ravens are going nowhere. That team has been parted out like a Caddy at a chop shop.

He can sit on his butt and watch us in the Super Bowl if he cherishes a little more money that much.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:15 PM   #370
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Dumervil's dead money is a sunk cost. It doesn't have anything to do with decisions going forward, except the fact that we already paid him $37M over the past 3 seasons, which should count for something to him, but probably doesn't.
Ayers SB is a sunk cost as well. So for your comparison, you should only include his 2013 base salary.

As for year 2 (2014), none of the three players are signed. So you can say Ayers/Freeney are the same cost as Dumervil, but there's zero data to support or refute that.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:16 PM   #371
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Like I said, we'll just have to wait and see what happens. Patience. If they sign Freeney and spend our first two draft picks on offensive players, then I'll start to get concerned about the defense. But I'm not going to get worked up without see the complete picture. Hell, it's not even a certainty that Doom isn't returning. He may not be impressed with our offer, but I doubt Baltimore is backing up the Brinks truck, either.
No matter what, i dont think its gonna be a huge issue. Unless Peyton goes down, i think we have as good of a chance as anyone.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:20 PM   #372
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I love Doom and all but, lets be real here. Last year was the first year since he has been a member of the Broncos that we won more then 9 games. So ask yourself for all the stats he puts up do they equal wins?
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:28 PM   #373
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I love Doom and all but, lets be real here. Last year was the first year since he has been a member of the Broncos that we won more then 9 games. So ask yourself for all the stats he puts up do they equal wins?
You're blaming Cutler/Orton/Tebow on Dumervil?

You should blame the Colt's 2011 season on Freeney then.

Logic fail.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:30 PM   #374
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Defense was bottom of the league when Cutler was at QB and dead last McDaniels/Studsville year.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:31 PM   #375
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There are going to be plenty of unhappy Bronco fans if the Ravens get Dumervil for $8M per year, and the Broncos get the ghost of Dwight Freeney.

Especially, when the only thing the Broncos have to do to make up the difference between the two salaries is by releasing their idiot kicker.
Broncos' fans have already talked themselves into think Dumerville isn't that good.
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