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Old 03-21-2013, 02:33 AM   #1
Bacchus
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Default A letter to the murderers G W Bush and Dick Cheney

An Iraq War veteran who joined the U.S. Army two days after 9/11 has written a powerful open letter to former President George W. Bush and ex-Vice President Dick Cheney accusing them of war crimes, "plunder" and "the murder of thousands of young Americans—my fellow veterans—whose future you stole."

Tomas Young, who was shot and paralyzed during an insurgent attack in Sadr City in 2004, five days into his first deployment, penned the letter from his Kansas City, Mo., home, where he's under hospice care.

I joined the Army two days after the 9/11 attacks. I joined the Army because our country had been attacked. I wanted to strike back at those who had killed some 3,000 of my fellow citizens. I did not join the Army to go to Iraq, a country that had no part in the September 2001 attacks and did not pose a threat to its neighbors, much less to the United States. I did not join the Army to “liberate” Iraqis or to shut down mythical weapons-of-mass-destruction facilities or to implant what you cynically called “democracy” in Baghdad and the Middle East. I did not join the Army to rebuild Iraq, which at the time you told us could be paid for by Iraq’s oil revenues.

I would not be writing this letter if I had been wounded fighting in Afghanistan against those forces that carried out the attacks of 9/11. Had I been wounded there I would still be miserable because of my physical deterioration and imminent death, but I would at least have the comfort of knowing that my injuries were a consequence of my own decision to defend the country I love. I would not have to lie in my bed, my body filled with painkillers, my life ebbing away, and deal with the fact that hundreds of thousands of human beings, including children, including myself, were sacrificed by you for little more than the greed of oil companies, for your alliance with the oil sheiks in Saudi Arabia, and your insane visions of empire.



Full article Here: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...154541674.html
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Old 03-21-2013, 07:01 AM   #2
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I was just going to post this. Not surprising that those on the front lines were able to figure out Bush and Cheney so much quicker than some who post on this board and those that reveal their idiocy over the radio waves and media. It wasn't hard to figure out.

So sorry dude, thanks for your service.
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Old 03-21-2013, 07:27 AM   #3
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So powerful, and so right.

Bush should have been impeached years ago. But his crime wasn't lying about a BJ, so this GOP doesn't give a rat's.
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:41 AM   #4
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Our country is still run the same way without Bush and Chaney.
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:01 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by IHaveALight View Post
Our country is still run the same way without Bush and Chaney.
We still have too many mistakes of the last administration intact or expanded. But as history teaches, it's easier to start a war than stop one.

And while the gun lobby is screaming about the 2nd amendment, it's very purpose has been undermined by government intrusions into our lives.

The GOP want even more interference.
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:37 AM   #6
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Troll thread. Pass to the blunt to the homie on your left while another of Obama's drones accidentally blows up an Afghan wedding.

You gotta love the selective moral outrage of the drum beating left.

Actually, you can't. It's a big part of why I left the left. It doesn't take a genius to spot false moral outrage and ulterior motives.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:23 AM   #7
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CIA analyst Nada Bokos:

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On Sunday, March 16, 2003, I watched Cheney on “Meet The Press” contradict our assessment publicly. “We know that he [Saddam] has a long-standing relationship with various terrorist groups,” Cheney said, “including the al-Qaeda organization.” I was basically watching Cheney field-test arguments that we would have to anticipate — and rebut — at CIA. Except instead of asking us questions behind closed doors, Cheney was asserting to the public as fact something that we found to be anything but. I found myself yelling at the TV like I was contesting a ref’s blown call in a football game.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013...-intelligence/
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:24 AM   #8
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Still not over for Iraqis:

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Tuesday marks the ten-year anniversary of the Iraq War, and while that war officially ended for the United States in December of 2011, life for Iraqi civilians — while better than it was at the bloody height of the insurgency — is still something short of peace. 4,573 Iraqi citizens were killed in 2012, up from 4,147 in 2011.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/annanorth/fo...-war-isnt-over
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:30 AM   #9
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The Iraq war was unnecessary, costly and damaging on every level. It was based on faulty intelligence manipulated for ideological reasons. The terrible human and economic costs over the past 10 years show why that must never happen again.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/20/op...n.html?hp&_r=0
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:53 AM   #10
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Quote:
...Richard Perle on NPR:
Montagne: Ten years later, nearly 5000 American troops dead, thousands more with wounds, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis dead or wounded. When you think about this, was it worth it?

Perle: I’ve got to say I think that is not a reasonable question. What we did at the time was done with the belief that it was necessary to protect this nation. You can’t a decade later go back and say we shouldn’t have done that.
Neoconservatism: never look back; never question; never take responsibility; always avoid accountability. Just seek power. Then wage war.
http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/...er-of-the-day/
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:42 AM   #11
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Democrats nuke Japan and somehow Republicans are the warmongers.

Weird, weird people...

Is it that we're doing peyote on this thread?
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:45 AM   #12
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Democrats nuke Japan and somehow Republicans are the warmongers.

Weird, weird people...

Is it that we're doing peyote on this thread?
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk View Post
Troll thread. Pass to the blunt to the homie on your left while another of Obama's drones accidentally blows up an Afghan wedding.

You gotta love the selective moral outrage of the drum beating left.

Actually, you can't. It's a big part of why I left the left. It doesn't take a genius to spot false moral outrage and ulterior motives.
And your constant deflecting for the Right is both tiresome and dishonest. If you can't argue to the point in the OP, why bother posting on the thread at all?
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:22 PM   #14
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And your constant deflecting for the Right is both tiresome and dishonest. If you can't argue to the point in the OP, why bother posting on the thread at all?
I did argue the point by pointing out the moral blind spot. It wasn't deflecting in defense of anyone in the least. You just take it that way.

I find such moral blind spots effing hilarious.

Seriously - if you don't like "murder," then b**** when ANYONE does it, not just when anyone with a different letter behind his name does it. When you behave that way, you come off as a seriously disingenuous a-hole trying to politically cash in on corpses.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:28 PM   #15
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"Moral blind spot". Good stuff. Basing you point on something that happened in the 1940's and comparing it to something that's practically still going on, and involves people and mindsets and politics that are still alive and relevant today. Ridic.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:35 PM   #16
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"Moral blind spot". Good stuff. Basing you point on something that happened in the 1940's and comparing it to something that's practically still going on, and involves people and mindsets and politics that are still alive and relevant today. Ridic.
As I have already pointed out, Obama's drones are CURRENTLY wiping out civilians while you rattle on something about a previous administration, THUS you undermine your own argument with the same "past doesn't matter" argument that you just tried to use as a weapon against me.

You're a MENSA member, aren't you?

Does the past matter or not?

Why is Gitmo still open? Where are the war crimes charges that I kept hearing about were forthcoming in the summer of '08?
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:37 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk View Post
I did argue the point by pointing out the moral blind spot. It wasn't deflecting in defense of anyone in the least. You just take it that way.

I find such moral blind spots effing hilarious.

Seriously - if you don't like "murder," then b**** when ANYONE does it, not just when anyone with a different letter behind his name does it. When you behave that way, you come off as a seriously disingenuous a-hole trying to politically cash in on corpses.
I don't understand, all I did was post the letter of An American hero someone who died for their country. If you have an issue of what he said you probably need to take it up with him.

Thomas Young was apart of a Documentary called "Body of War"

You can watch it here.

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03212008/watch.html
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:39 PM   #18
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^ Those aren't the topics raised in the OP that you're dismissing. If you'd like to raise those topics them I'm sure people would be willing to discuss them. All are valid topics. Iraq is no more or no less of a catastrophic mistake and debacle no matter your position on the issues you've raised.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:30 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyuk nyuk View Post
I did argue the point by pointing out the moral blind spot. It wasn't deflecting in defense of anyone in the least. You just take it that way.

I find such moral blind spots effing hilarious.

Seriously - if you don't like "murder," then b**** when ANYONE does it, not just when anyone with a different letter behind his name does it. When you behave that way, you come off as a seriously disingenuous a-hole trying to politically cash in on corpses.
I really doubt you even read the soldier's letter, given that you still can't bring yourself to comment on it. All you can do is blather your dogmatic, Right Wing nonsense, over and over and over.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:44 PM   #20
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All the more reason to investigate 9/11.
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:52 PM   #21
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How many letters from former and current soldiers does a President get? I would bet 1000's. How many do the liberal media latch on to and publish? The motivation for that is political.

Also Obama, the liberals, the UN, the Republicans all let many many people die in Syria because they decided to sit this one out. He's no humanitarian. Also reporters talking about a dead soldiers letter when they could be in Pakistan taking pictures of dead babies blown up by Obama is a joke.

Go out and do your jobs and report on the current war.
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Old 03-21-2013, 04:37 PM   #22
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How many letters from former and current soldiers does a President get? I would bet 1000's. How many do the liberal media latch on to and publish? The motivation for that is political.

Also Obama, the liberals, the UN, the Republicans all let many many people die in Syria because they decided to sit this one out. He's no humanitarian. Also reporters talking about a dead soldiers letter when they could be in Pakistan taking pictures of dead babies blown up by Obama is a joke.

Go out and do your jobs and report on the current war.
I love how you Right Wingers dodge and weave to avoid the truth. Here it is: Wolfowitz, Perle, Rumsfeld and Cheney planned to attack Iraq before Dubya even got elected. They USED the terrorist attacks of 911 as a catalyst to spur this country into war under false pretenses. They started planning the war two days after 911 when there was no mention whatsoever of WMDs. American soldiers died for their lies. They committed numerous criminal acts and some of them (Cheney) personally benefited from the war. The oil companies profited. And Iraq is in a shambles. So, not only did they lie us into a war, but then they bungled the war itself.

Obama's drone policy is indefensible. The Syrian policy is an entirely different issue and Obama's hands are tied on Syria. Why? Because Bush ****ed up Iraq so bad that if Obama tried to go into Syria to help the GOP would impeach his ass. But anybody who equates either of those issues with lying the country into war is either an idiot or so blinded by partisanship that it's turned them into a fool.

Last edited by Rohirrim; 03-21-2013 at 04:42 PM..
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Old 03-21-2013, 05:40 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Rohirrim View Post
I love how you Right Wingers dodge and weave to avoid the truth. Here it is: Wolfowitz, Perle, Rumsfeld and Cheney planned to attack Iraq before Dubya even got elected. They USED the terrorist attacks of 911 as a catalyst to spur this country into war under false pretenses. They started planning the war two days after 911 when there was no mention whatsoever of WMDs. American soldiers died for their lies. They committed numerous criminal acts and some of them (Cheney) personally benefited from the war. The oil companies profited. And Iraq is in a shambles. So, not only did they lie us into a war, but then they bungled the war itself.

Obama's drone policy is indefensible. The Syrian policy is an entirely different issue and Obama's hands are tied on Syria. Why? Because Bush ****ed up Iraq so bad that if Obama tried to go into Syria to help the GOP would impeach his ass. But anybody who equates either of those issues with lying the country into war is either an idiot or so blinded by partisanship that it's turned them into a fool.
This all common knowledge or should be by now. Msnbc was nice enough to wrap it up in a nice little documentary that they will be re-airing Friday night (check local listings). Now I know you're scared to receive news from the "other side", cut, but I challenge you to watch it and refute anything hey bring to light. It will be interesting to see what you (or anyone else) can come up with.
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Old 03-21-2013, 06:16 PM   #24
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This all common knowledge or should be by now. Msnbc was nice enough to wrap it up in a nice little documentary that they will be re-airing Friday night (check local listings). Now I know you're scared to receive news from the "other side", cut, but I challenge you to watch it and refute anything hey bring to light. It will be interesting to see what you (or anyone else) can come up with.
Hubris: Selling the Iraq War

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But documents that have been declassified in recent years show that Bush administration officials weren’t interested in changing Saddam’s policies: they wanted him gone and were determined to launch a war to achieve that. The chronology also reveals that Saddam was in their crosshairs even before 9/11. The very afternoon of September 11, 2001, Rumsfeld met in the Pentagon with top aides. As his handwritten notes written by one of his aides at the meeting show, Rumsfeld asked for the “best info fast..judge whether good enough [to] hit S.H. [Saddam Hussein] @ same time—not only UBL [Osama bin Laden].” Rumsfeld also tasked “Jim Haynes [the Pentagon's top lawyer] to talk w/ PW [Paul Wolfowitz] for additional support [for the] connection w/ UBL.” Before being presented with any evidence linking Saddam to al-Qaida, Rumsfeld was already looking for ways to use the World Trade Center attacks to justify taking out the Iraqi leader.

By late November, Rumsfeld was meeting with Gen. Tommy Franks, who succeeded Zinni as commander of the Centcom, to plot the “decapitation” of the Iraqi government, according to the now declassified talking points from the session (shown on television for the first time in the documentary). The talking points suggest Rumsfeld and his team were grappling with a tricky issue: “How [to] start?” the war. In other words, what would the pretext be? Various scenarios were outlined: “US discovers Saddam connection to Sept. 11 attack or to anthrax attacks?” reads one of them. “Dispute over WMD inspections?” reads another. “Start now thinking about inspection demands.”

These talking points make it clearer than ever that Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and others were determined–probably from the moment they came into office–to invade Iraq. Paul Pillar–then one of the CIA’s top terrorism analysts—says in the documentary that the 9/11 attacks “made it politically possible for the first time to persuade the American people to break a tradition of not launching offensive wars.” But to achieve the goal, secret intelligence was twisted, massaged, and wildly exaggerated. “It wasn’t a matter of lying about this or lying about that,” Pillar says. “But rather—through the artistry of speechwriters and case-presenters—conveying an impression to the American people that certain things were true.” But those things were not true. It’s worth watching to see how it was done.
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:36 PM   #25
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Honestly I'm not sure what the point if this thread is. I mean, I know many of you still are full of burning hatred for Bush and Cheney but really, are either of them going to be arrested anytime soon? Probably not.

I personally learned a few lessons from this episode however the war is over and I'm through debating it.

So why continue with this? What do you hope to accomplish?
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