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Old 03-21-2013, 09:39 AM   #326
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Replacing a guy like Dumervil isn't as easy as it sounds. Sure, you can find a situational vet near retirement to come in on passing downs for $5M a year.

If I was an opponent (like the Ravens, or Patriots), I would pass all day on 1st and 2nd down, knowing I could double Von and face minimal pass-rush.

Getting rid of Dumervil, only means that the Broncos will be forced to spend a late 1st round draft pick on a pass-rusher sometime in the near future, with production that probably won't be anywhere near Dumervil's.
He is not going to be easy he easily played more snaps last year than anyone on the Dline.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:23 AM   #327
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http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-am/0ap...rvil-a-mistake

Our ex GM has a point. Communication or lack of it was a key mistake. We already know the agent screwed the pooch, but our FO could have handled it better. I had no idea that we approached the pay cut through the media first instead of the player. With a player like Doom, developed a Bronco from the ground up, that was going to certainly generate mixed feelings. Had we approached Doom sooner, he would still be a Bronco.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:27 AM   #328
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He is not going to be easy he easily played more snaps last year than anyone on the Dline.
I can't imagine why $$$$$$$$$$
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:27 AM   #329
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Pretty sure the new rule only eliminates 'spearing', which is illegal in almost every level of football (Pee Wee, Jr High, High School).

Now Spearing is illegal in the NFL too. No big deal. All RB's are taught not to use that tactic throughout their career anyway. I don't think I have ever seen a Broncos RB spear anybody.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:36 AM   #330
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See, thats the thing, we would've needed to spend a high pick on a DE anyways because Dumervil is turning 29, is costing a lot when that money needs to go to keeping Von Miller.
The prime of an athlete's career is 25-31. No matter where Dumervil plays, I'm sure he can average 10+ sacks for the next 3+ years. Especially considering that he has always depended on pass-rush moves, and not speed. We're trying to win a Superbowl here, and Elvis is in the prime of his career.
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:43 AM   #331
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Pretty sure the new rule only eliminates 'spearing', which is illegal in almost every level of football (Pee Wee, Jr High, High School).

Now Spearing is illegal in the NFL too. No big deal. All RB's are taught not to use that tactic throughout their career anyway. I don't think I have ever seen a Broncos RB spear anybody.
I can't imagine any of our current broncos RBs running anyone over
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Old 03-21-2013, 10:54 AM   #332
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Is there much evidence that this is a problem though? (injury wise) Off the top of my head I can't remember a situation where someone got hurt by the crown of an RB's helmet in an open field 1 on 1 type situation.
Its anatomically sound football. When you lower your head, you straigten the spine, when you look at what you are hitting/tackling the spine is bent and prevents injury. When you are taught to tackle for the first time, the first thing they emphasize is keeping your head up. Essentially the NFL is getting rid of poor technique. Jim Brown had some interesting quotes about the rule change, and essentially said he never rammed people when he was playing despite being one of the most physical backs in NFL history. I take that with a grain of salt, but the man has a place to talk.

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Old 03-21-2013, 11:01 AM   #333
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Good thing Earl Campbell and Walter Payton didnt play then. I went back and watched quite a few runs by Marshawn and Steven Jackson. Both had runs that would've resulted in penalties. There was one against SF where Jackson got a 1st down by running right through gholdson. With his helmet down like a ram. It's a **** rule plain and simple. Frank gore lowers his head every time he runs a sweep.
It's something these guys are going to have to adjust to, I'm not saying its going to make the game better, but it makes sense. You can hit a guy without ramming them with the crown of your helmet. If LBs hit people like that there would be a lot more cases of paralysis in football, its just not sound technique.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:08 AM   #334
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When you ram someone with your head the alignment of your skull and spine means that the impact jams your vertibretes together, and increases the likelihood of trauma.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:22 AM   #335
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When you ram someone with your head the alignment of your skull and spine means that the impact jams your vertibretes together, and increases the likelihood of trauma.
I get what your saying. Just think the refs are put in a position to make a judgement call on what is a helmet or shoulder hit. There's gonna be alot of gray areas during several runs this year. For a ref to decide what HE feels is a penalty is the part I have a problem with. Look how many horrendous calls or no calls PI gets. Ref judgement calls already affect outcomes of games. This is yet another added.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:38 AM   #336
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I get what your saying. Just think the refs are put in a position to make a judgement call on what is a helmet or shoulder hit. There's gonna be alot of gray areas during several runs this year. For a ref to decide what HE feels is a penalty is the part I have a problem with. Look how many horrendous calls or no calls PI gets. Ref judgement calls already affect outcomes of games. This is yet another added.
That's true, I won't contest that, but its a necessary evil to protect the well being of players. Most of these guys are young, and many of them are unaware or willfully negligent of their personal safety. If it means getting an extra carry, or making the ESPN highlight reel they will forgo their personal obligation to do so.

There will be some "ify" judgement calls that result, but a majority of the plays will be clear for refs to desern intent. Before the defenseless receiver rule it was clear when a safety lowered his head and speared a receiver, and I think it will be pretty clear with running backs. It will emphasize the stiff arm, and stutter step for ball carriers getting to the outside. If a back decides to make contact they will have to lead with the shoulder, and make sure to keep their head up. If the Coaches can make this a priority in camp, I don't see it being much of an issue. The main concern I have is if a ball carrier is already going down, and there is no way for them to square into their intended target. Outside of that there is reason to believe most of the grey area can be circumvented.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:41 AM   #337
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[QUOTE=DivineLegion;3818386]Its anatomically sound football. When you lower your head, you straigten the spine, when you look at what you are hitting/tackling the spine is bent and prevents injury. When you are taught to tackle for the first time, the first thing they emphasize is keeping your head up. Essentially the NFL is getting rid of poor technique. Jim Brown had some interesting quotes about the rule change, and essentially said he never rammed people when he was playing despite being one of the most physical backs in NFL history. I take that with a grain of salt, but the man has a place to talk.[/QUOTE]


I saw that, too. He said he used the palm of his hand (stiff-arm) or lowered his shoulder, but never rammed anyone with his helmet.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:50 AM   #338
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Klis reports that Ravens are ONLY interested in signing Dumervil (of the remaining FA pass-rushers). No surprise, since losing Dumervil woud weaken the Broncos.

Since Condon represents Umenyiora, Freeney, and Dumervil, it would make sense that Condon will try to get all of his clients signed for the most money possible. The Broncos are the only team to have shown interest in Freeney so far. Seems to me like Condon will try to push Freeney on the Broncos, and Dumervil on the Ravens...which is lame.

Also, according to Klis, the sticking point in the Broncos latest offer to Dumervil seems to be year 2 of the 3 year deal. The Broncos haven't budged on this issue. Pretty easy to see that the Broncos don't have enough cap space over the next two years, whereas the Ravens do.

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Old 03-21-2013, 12:00 PM   #339
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Klis reports that Ravens are ONLY interested in signing Dumervil (of the remaining FA pass-rushers). No surprise, since losing Dumervil woud weaken the Broncos.

Since Condon represents Umenyiora, Freeney, and Dumervil, it would make sense that Condon will try to get all of his clients signed for the most money possible. The Broncos are the only team to have shown interest in Freeney so far. Seems to me like Condon will try to push Freeney on the Broncos, and Dumervil on the Ravens...which is lame.

Also, according to Klis, the sticking point in the Broncos latest offer to Dumervil seems to be year 2 of the 3 year deal. The Broncos haven't budged on this issue. Pretty easy to see that the Broncos don't have enough cap space over the next two years, whereas the Ravens do.
Fine, as I've said before...let Baltimore put themselves in a position where in 2015 they owe $30 million per year to Flacco and Dumervil. It will kill them.

And they aren't making the playoffs this year. They lost too many key players and the luck won't carry over into next season.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:06 PM   #340
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Fine, as I've said before...let Baltimore put themselves in a position where in 2015 they owe $30 million per year to Flacco and Dumervil. It will kill them.

And they aren't making the playoffs this year. They lost too many key players and the luck won't carry over into next season.
Suggs and Doom as your OLB in a 3-4 would make a pretty potent pass rush. If they address the secondary in the draft, they could do some serious damage. They lost Ellerby, Kruger, Boldin, and Reed. Granted Reed is a HOF player, Kruger is nowhere near Doom in terms of career production, and Ellerbe can be replaced. I don't think they lost enough to be irrelevant.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:07 PM   #341
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There are going to be plenty of unhappy Bronco fans if the Ravens get Dumervil for $8M per year, and the Broncos get the ghost of Dwight Freeney.

Especially, when the only thing the Broncos have to do to make up the difference between the two salaries is by releasing their idiot kicker.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:11 PM   #342
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Suggs and Doom as your OLB in a 3-4 would make a pretty potent pass rush. If they address the secondary in the draft, they could do some serious damage. They lost Ellerby, Kruger, Boldin, and Reed. Granted Reed is a HOF player, Kruger is nowhere near Doom in terms of career production, and Ellerbe can be replaced. I don't think they lost enough to be irrelevant.
Considering Kruger was a terror last year toward the end of the season, i'm not sure it'll be THAT much of a difference.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:14 PM   #343
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Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 1h A Tom Condon HR: Elvis Dumervil to Ravens, Dwight Freeney to Broncos; Osi Umenyiora to Falcons. The best way

Ravens - Dumervil
Patriots - Abraham
Falcons - Umenyiora
Broncos - Freeney

Pardon me I'm feeling nauseaous.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:15 PM   #344
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Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 1h A Tom Condon HR: Elvis Dumervil to Ravens, Dwight Freeney to Broncos; Osi Umenyiora to Falcons. The best way

Ravens - Dumervil
Patriots - Abraham
Falcons - Umenyiora
Broncos - Freeney

Pardon me I'm feeling nauseaous.
Eh, i thnk we'll be fine.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:16 PM   #345
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Suggs and Doom as your OLB in a 3-4 would make a pretty potent pass rush. If they address the secondary in the draft, they could do some serious damage. They lost Ellerby, Kruger, Boldin, and Reed. Granted Reed is a HOF player, Kruger is nowhere near Doom in terms of career production, and Ellerbe can be replaced. I don't think they lost enough to be irrelevant.
You left out Lewis and Pollard as players they lost on D and Matt Birk on O. The leadership is gone from that D, and Doom isn't going to bring that back to them.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:26 PM   #346
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Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 1h A Tom Condon HR: Elvis Dumervil to Ravens, Dwight Freeney to Broncos; Osi Umenyiora to Falcons. The best way

Ravens - Dumervil
Patriots - Abraham
Falcons - Umenyiora
Broncos - Freeney

Pardon me I'm feeling nauseaous.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:28 PM   #347
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I think you could say that about 90% of his posts anymore.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:32 PM   #348
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Are we eligible for a compensatory draft pick even though we cut him?
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:32 PM   #349
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There are going to be plenty of unhappy Bronco fans if the Ravens get Dumervil for $8M per year, and the Broncos get the ghost of Dwight Freeney.

Especially, when the only thing the Broncos have to do to make up the difference between the two salaries is by releasing their idiot kicker.
First off most competive NFL games are decided by 4 points or less. Secondly let's get into a situation like SF last year where their kicker lost games and they had to have kicker tryouts before the playoffs

I'll stay with Prater and with Von on the field Denver will find ways to generate 10+ sacks from the other side no problem

Hell sign both Abe and Freeney for what Elvis wants

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Old 03-21-2013, 12:37 PM   #350
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I think you could say that about 90% of his posts anymore.
So let me get this straight, you and Broncos Inferno would take the Ayers/Freeney combo over Dumervil? The cost is equal.

Give me Dumervil over those two, any day of the week.

Edit: Choosing the Ayers/Freeney combo also forces the Broncos to spend a 1st round draft pick on an RDE within the next 3 years.

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First off most competive NFL games are decided by 4 points or less.
Which is why we need a better kicker.

Last edited by pricejj; 03-21-2013 at 12:46 PM..
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