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Old 03-19-2013, 08:19 AM   #51
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Verdict is correct I think ... the tougher call will be the sentencing.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:32 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by ol#7 View Post
You sound like one of Kobe's attorneys.

Nobody deserves rape.
Please show me where I said this. What I'm referring to is the ongoing investigation that will take place with a grand jury. I said the parents of all the kids involved, including the girl, should be held accountable for this tragic event.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:42 AM   #53
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First off I want to say i am not defending sex offenders. but I have heard the rate of repeat offenses is really low for sex offenders once they get released from prison. The re offending rates not high at all.
So maybe the punishment is just about right?
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:23 AM   #54
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Again, the girl has a history, which I think the parents of said girl are responsible for. And you sir, can't read or comprehend to save your life, so piss off.
You could say that about every victim ever. And it's a typical defense for every dirtbag whose ever committed a crime. So congratulations rape apologist. You're one more cog in the rape apology machine.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:42 AM   #55
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How fragile the wall between us and savagery. When we see the scenes of Auschwitz or Bosnia or Mogadishu played out, or other place names ad infinitum, we cringe and turn away and say, "That's not me." But how thick are the walls of our society that hold our own evil at bay? Thin as paper. Look at Hurricane Katrina? What did they call it at Nuremberg? The banality of evil. When evil becomes mundane. Last night on TV, serial killers were shoving spears into people's guts. The blood covered spear came out the woman's back. The goo came out and the victim barfed blood. It's a top rated show. Is it Satan? Or us?

The chimp resides within us all. Waiting to get out. Ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee.
In a lot of ways, worse than chimps. Chimp violence is primal, reactionary and in the moment. The human condition has anticipatory concepts of future demise and all of the insecurities that go along with knowing we're all going to die.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:02 AM   #56
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Ah, so if the girl is 21, it's okay to rape her. Got it. Thank you for clearing that up.
can you read you?

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Nobody deserved to be raped and humiliated like that girl, nobody!
when i said nobody, i mean nobody. that includes 21yr old girls.

are you just trying to be be a jerk or what? obviously you know that is not i am trying to say. grow up.

the girl is 16. she is out past curfew. she is at a party drinking alcohol. the parents are no where to be found. who do you blame for this? I don't blame the girl, i blame the parents.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:10 AM   #57
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can you read you?



when i said nobody, i mean nobody. that includes 21yr old girls.

are you just trying to be be a jerk or what? obviously you know that is not i am trying to say. grow up.

the girl is 16. she is out past curfew. she is at a party drinking alcohol. the parents are no where to be found. who do you blame for this? I don't blame the girl, i blame the parents.
Do you think she's the only 16 yr old to ever stay out past curfew. I blame the rapist,out past curfew or not. They would've raped a different girl had she gone home on time.
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Old 03-19-2013, 10:19 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by SleepingTiger View Post
can you read you?



when i said nobody, i mean nobody. that includes 21yr old girls.

are you just trying to be be a jerk or what? obviously you know that is not i am trying to say. grow up.

the girl is 16. she is out past curfew. she is at a party drinking alcohol. the parents are no where to be found. who do you blame for this? I don't blame the girl, i blame the parents.
I blame the people who decided to make her a rape victim instead of someone who just made some bad choices and got way too drunk.
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:00 AM   #59
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Do you think she's the only 16 yr old to ever stay out past curfew. I blame the rapist,out past curfew or not. They would've raped a different girl had she gone home on time.

she is not the only 16yr old to stay out past curfew. she wont be the last 16yr old girl to stay out past curfew, go to a party and pass out.


let me get this clear for all you knuckle heads out there
THE RAPIST ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT HAPPENED. THEY ARE THE BLAME. I AM NOT SAYING THEY ARE INNOCENT
I hope that is clear enough.

how do you know they will rape another girl if she wasn't there? were you at the party? do you know the two boys? are they repeat offenders? do you know that this was a premeditated rape, that the boys plan to go to the party and rape the first girl they see? did you witness other girls passed out rolling on the ground?
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:17 AM   #60
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I blame the people who decided to make her a rape victim instead of someone who just made some bad choices and got way too drunk.
do you think the parents should feel responsible to what happened to their daughter? or do you think they should just point their fingers at the two boys and blame them for what happened?

If i was her dad, i would seriously look at myself as a father and guardian, and try to figure out how i screwed up so much as my daughter went to a party, got drunk and was raped while i was at home asleep in my comfy bed.

even the father of one of the boys said he was responsible for this sons action. that he wasn't their to teach him what is right and what is wrong. he could of easily blamed the girl, blamed the community, blamed the people who sold the booze. Finally an adult taking responsibility for what their children did and not point fingers.
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:22 AM   #61
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You could say that about every victim ever. And it's a typical defense for every dirtbag whose ever committed a crime. So congratulations rape apologist. You're one more cog in the rape apology machine.
show me where I'm defending the actions of the two football players.
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:58 PM   #62
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Uhm. Actually, it's fairly high. Historically, the lowest rates of recidivism (for people leaving prison after serving sentences for serious crimes) are among people convicted of homicides. Why, I don't know. It's not just an age thing, because even back in the days when you could get 6-8 years for a 2d degree murder, and half that for heat of passion manslaughter, it was still true. Maybe they just get it out of their system.

Also, I don't know about other states, but in Colorado, hardly anyone gets out of prison after being convicted of a serious sex offense. They carry indeterminate life sentences, and, before they are released, the parole board has to certify that they wil probably never commit another crime. The parole board rarely does that. I know that from about 2000-2009 there were about 1,000 people in Colorado sentenced under the lifetime act and only 5 or 6 were paroled. At least a couple of those had their parole revoked for noncompliance with some condition.

Oddly, you can get probation instead of prison for a sex offense, but many of those people get revoked as well. And then it's indeterminate life.

Um actually no it isn't. i worked 5 years for the public defender and have read numerous studies on it. Being put back in prison for non compliance with laws almost impossible to follow is my point. Going back to prison because you got caught walking through a park is not repeating your offense. Although many studies try to count that as such to prove a point. My whole point was its not the right policy to make so many laws about where and how they can live that it basically forces them to lie and violate probabtion to live.

But if you like we can start posting studies on it and debate further.
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:05 PM   #63
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So maybe the punishment is just about right?
Let me start by saying I want harsh punishments for brutal sex crimes. But lets face it we have a lot of sex crimes non of us feel confortable giving someone the death penatly or life in prison for.

My point is that with the ones we decide to let out of prison our policy of making their lives so hard that its impossible to find a job or place to live is tenious and misguided. I doubt it makes us safer either. In CA we have the govt going around looking for places sex offenders live then building a park that is in some cases only 40 square feet next to building forcing them to move. Eventually to another city, then off to another state to be someone elses problem.
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:32 PM   #64
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show me where I'm defending the actions of the two football players.
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Let's not forget that this girl is not exactly a little angel. I read that she already has a bad rep. for drinking and lying.
That's basically on par with saying she had it coming to her. So there you go, rape apologist.
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:38 PM   #65
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That's basically on par with saying she had it coming to her. So there you go, rape apologist.
lol, it's in the context of the authorities expanding the investigation to others involved in the incident via a grand jury. So, the two football players have been found guilty, great, now they want to expand the investigation to find other's culpible for this rape. I'm suggesting all the parents be held accountible, including the girls.
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:49 PM   #66
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lol, it's in the context of the authorities expanding the investigation to others involved in the incident via a grand jury. So, the two football players have been found guilty, great, now they want to expand the investigation to find other's culpible for this rape. I'm suggesting all the parents be held accountible, including the girls.
Why should a girl whose been raped be "held accountable" - what do you mean, that she should be cited for underage drinking?

Why should the parents be "held accountable for their daughters rape?

Seriously, just trying to understand your thinking here as I find it fascinating.
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:07 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Pontius Pirate View Post
Why should a girl whose been raped be "held accountable" - what do you mean, that she should be cited for underage drinking?

Why should the parents be "held accountable for their daughters rape?

Seriously, just trying to understand your thinking here as I find it fascinating.
If we set a precedent of underage drinking being overlooked in the case of rape, I worry a lot more highschoolers will get charged with rape in the future.
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:10 PM   #68
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Why should a girl whose been raped be "held accountable" - what do you mean, that she should be cited for underage drinking?

Why should the parents be "held accountable for their daughters rape?

Seriously, just trying to understand your thinking here as I find it fascinating.
My post #32 is the one you have a problem with, but it's in the same context as my prior posts #11 & #12. My point is that if they are going to try and expand the case, that is, assign blame for what happened to other people besides the 2 football players (both minors), should not the parents of all these kids be investigated too? After all, we are talking about minors, right?

What if these kids, including this girl, were involved in a car accident where deaths were involved, would you not ask why? If these minors have a known history of alcohol abuse, as this girl does, and perhaps some of the other minors involved may also, is it not the responsibility of the parents of these kids to insure their safety? A minor, by definition means someone who is not of age and should be under the care of an adult. So, why aren't the "adults" being investigated too? Who is most culpible outside of the two football players? I'm contending that it is the adults who are most culpible simply because they are adults and are responsible for the actions of their kids, no?

Again, my post #12 sums up my feelings on the issue, that is, those most responsible for the safety and well being of the kids are the ones who will bear the least amount of culpability, why? Justice is not served in this way, JMHO.

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Old 03-19-2013, 04:17 PM   #69
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My post #32 is the one you have a problem with, but it's in the same context as my prior posts #11 & #12. My point is that if they are going to try and expand the case, that is, assign blame for what happened to other people besides the 2 football players (both minors), should not the parents of all these kids be investigated too? After all, we are talking about minors, right?

What if these kids, including this girl, were involved in a car accident where deaths were involved, would you not ask why? If these minors have a known history of alcohol abuse, as this girl does, and perhaps some of the other minors involved may also, is it not the responsibility of the parents of these kids to insure their safety? A minor, by definition means someone who is not of age and should be under the care of an adult. So, why aren't the "adults" being investigated too? Who is most culpible outside of the two football players? I'm contending that it is the adults who are most culpible simply because they are adults and are responsible for the actions of their kids, no?

Again, my post #12 sums up my feelings on the issue, that is, those most responsible for the safety and well being of the kids are the ones who will bear the least amount of culpability, why? Justice is not served in this way, JMHO.
You sir are an idiot.

They are expanding the case because the Rapists, remember them, were trying to involve others and were sending out messages/photos/what have you to others, who apparantly did nothing to stop the Rape. As such, these individuals are responsible as well for failing to act. Not the parents of a raped girl.

I find just about everything you have posted on this to be reprehensible.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:55 PM   #70
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You sir are an idiot.

They are expanding the case because the Rapists, remember them, were trying to involve others and were sending out messages/photos/what have you to others, who apparantly did nothing to stop the Rape. As such, these individuals are responsible as well for failing to act. Not the parents of a raped girl.

I find just about everything you have posted on this to be reprehensible.
I bet you are a horrible parent.
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:41 PM   #71
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do you have kids? do you have daughters? those boys are lucky to have balls if that was my daughter. 12 gauge shotgun justice sounds too good for them. those "kids" sound evil, I don't care how young they seem. that girl is ruined for life. those "poor" boys didn't feel a thing 'til they finally got some justice. the boys didn't even know they did anything wrong til they were gonna get kicked off the football team.
She needs to find closure and put this behind her and let her life be defined by what she does in the present and future choices than what she did in the past. It will take her time, I hope she has people around her who will support her and not fail her again.

All the kids who drank that night should be reprimanded for underaged drinking but the boys and those who were accessories or enablers to the crime are the ones who should be held accountable. I don't know much about this case but find it sad that no one seemed to care enough about the girl or had enough balls (or moral compass) to stand up for the girl and put an end to her nightmare. Anyone who participated or did not report what happened are to blame.

Parenting a big issue here but we all live in COMMUNITIES, we need to be active in them and influence right and wrong by mentoring all kids and leading by example. That "It takes a Village" line to raise a child sounds hokey but it is true, I never read Clinton's book but the people we live around do impact our kids for good and bad. Being involved in the community can change other kids who may not have good role models or parents.

Leaving justice to viglante after the fact shotgun justice just compounds the issue even more, your going to end up taking a life and ending up in jail and the cycle grows. I know what you mean TS and I really like your posts and takes but we need to be involved in our kids lives and volunteer in our communities, be leaders and role models and continue to make the right choice even if it is hard to prevent these types of parties where things can escalate quickly. Especially parties where booze and drugs can be found which further diminish already fragile decision making and amplify peer pressures.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:03 PM   #72
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I bet you are a horrible parent.
No, he's right. You're an idiot.

It's funny you're even making comments about parenting when you're trying to say the victim and her parents share some of the blame.

It's like you don't even comprehend how dumb it is to say that what the girl did (went out and got drunk with her friends at an end-of-summer party) is something she should be brought to task over, or that her parents should be brought to task because they somehow could've/should've prevented her rape or even her getting drunk with her friends.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:23 PM   #73
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No, he's right. You're an idiot.

It's funny you're even making comments about parenting when you're trying to say the victim and her parents share some of the blame.

It's like you don't even comprehend how dumb it is to say that what the girl did (went out and got drunk with her friends at an end-of-summer party) is something she should be brought to task over, or that her parents should be brought to task because they somehow could've/should've prevented her rape or even her getting drunk with her friends.
Answer this one question--are these minors?

Here's the definition of a minor: "A person under the age of full legal responsibility."

If by definition these kids are under the age of full responsibility, what does that mean? If the girl is a victom, and underage, that is, not "of full legal responsibility" then who assumes full responsibility for her actions and safety? I contend it's her parents. I also contend that the parents of the perpetrators and all the other perps involved should be held accountable.

PS, I never said the girl is responsible so please quit saying that. I said the parents are to blame for her being put an a bad situation to begin with. You either get it or you don't.

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Old 03-19-2013, 08:25 PM   #74
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That's not what I said, but whatever...
Ok, I reread it and it's not. I apologize but your point is still stupid. Blaming her parents is ridiculous. How many parents in this world have teenage daughters who lie and drink?

You can't keep tabs on your teenager without being super clingy and a terrible parent. This had nothing to do with the parents. It has to do with douche bag football players who have no respect for women, let alone another human being.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:31 PM   #75
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Ok, I reread it and it's not. I apologize but your point is still stupid. Blaming her parents is ridiculous. How many parents in this world have teenage daughters who lie and drink?

You can't keep tabs on your teenager without being super clingy and a terrible parent. This had nothing to do with the parents. It has to do with douche bag football players who have no respect for women, let alone another human being.
I understand unless the minor shows a pattern of bad behavior. Then yes, I think the parents are the primary culprits in the delinquincy of the child. Certainly this is not the case all the time. There are kids who just rebell and do whatever they want no matter how good the parents are or how hard the parents try, that being said, I believe this is by far the exception. I'm not saying kids aren't gonna do stupid things! I'm saying when there are gross violations of the law like rape and homocide then yes, the parents of the minor should be held accountable too.
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