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Old 03-18-2013, 09:27 AM   #26
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I did plenty wrong as a teenager, but what i did 20 yrs ago does not in any way represent the person I am today.
Did you do anything as deranged as what these kids did, and then share it with the world?
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:32 AM   #27
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The previous points about the blanket SOR are good ones even though I'm in the camp thinking these guys are closer to the child rapists than they are to the 18yo having sex with a 17yo gf. That said, the above is ridiculous. If they don't have the moral compass to know better than to do this to another human,they NEED to be separated from society. It's scary that you actually believe yourself.
i guess you're right. I just feel bad that these boys were led to believe they were above everyone else over a period of time. that they can get away with everything and anything. I think the parents and the whole town should be partly responsible for this.
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:32 AM   #28
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I think its shocking because they carried her around to different places passed. But fingering a girl, jacking off on her, although repugnant and a violation are not on the same level with other attacks we hear about. You know a person who rapes his niece over 10 yr period. A person who rapes more then once. A person who rapes and leaves someone for dead. Things we hear about every yr. I would like to see people like that executed, and kids like these given about what they got which was yr in prison.

My point was the sex offender registry is a dangerous slope. It has everything from child rapists to men cut urinating in public. Then we make laws saying they can't live by schools, parks, or anwhere children congregate. So they have nowhere to live and are forced out of society.

I'd rather we just kill people who really think are that dangerous. Why let them out? But to lump a HS kid who jacked off on a girl into a group with someone who got caught pissing, with someone who raped 4 women IMO is not a smart thing.

best thing like I said would be a way for one time offenders to get off the list after 5 yrs of probation and no more offenses.
You forgot to mention 1) forcibly sticking their ***** in her mouth and trying to get her to blow them while unconscious 2) taking pictures of her as they were hand-raping her and sending them out to their friends 3) asking people if they'd pee on her for $5

Or are you saying all those things are basically on par with peeing in public and therefore should not be considered heinous?
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:38 AM   #29
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Did you do anything as deranged as what these kids did, and then share it with the world?
no, but i was always held in check by my father. I was always taught that I am responsible for my actions and that their will be consequences for my wrongs. These kids ran the town. They were considered saviors. Adults never held them accountable.

I can't say I would do something as deranged if given the opportunity. But look at the other kids who was there to witness everything. They didn't think much of it and never attempted to intervene. If anything, they were probably encouraging it. Now you tell me, should those kids be held accountable as well?
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:39 AM   #30
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i guess you're right. I just feel bad that these boys were led to believe they were above everyone else over a period of time. that they can get away with everything and anything. I think the parents and the whole town should be partly responsible for this.
They arent 3 year olds biting other kids in pre-school. They are old enough to think on their own. This is some gross, deplorable ****.
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Old 03-18-2013, 01:18 PM   #31
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no, but i was always held in check by my father. I was always taught that I am responsible for my actions and that their will be consequences for my wrongs. These kids ran the town. They were considered saviors. Adults never held them accountable.
Okay, so then it's a real-life Lord of the Flies situation? There's a whole lot of shared responsibility that failed, but they seemed to go above and beyond the situation of horny teenagers wanting to "get some".

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can't say I would do something as deranged if given the opportunity. But look at the other kids who was there to witness everything. They didn't think much of it and never attempted to intervene. If anything, they were probably encouraging it. Now you tell me, should those kids be held accountable as well?
Maybe the whole town could be considered accessories to rape if we look at extreme measures. The kids who stood around and watched could be either witnesses or accessories to the crime. What about the one who captured it on video? Director/producer/distributor of child pornography? Granted, I've been following the story only topically, so I haven't seen all the details released to the public, but I did see the clip where she was dragged out for public display in either an unconscious or severely altered state where they had to blur out the parts of her body that were exposed.

As a father of a little girl, I can easily imagine the rage of that girl's parents and don't have a problem with marking them for life as sex offenders, forehead branding, castration, long slow violent deaths... whatever. I'm not the judge in that case, nor a jury so I don't have to look at it objectively. This wasn't a simple mistake made by errant teens. It was a drawn out sequence of terrible events that will forever scar the victim - and depending on her emotional structure, could lead to catastrophic circumstances for her later on in life. The ripple effect will be massive. (As it is for anyone who goes through such tragedies)

In Whoopi Goldberg terms: This was Rapity-Rape-Rape.
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Old 03-18-2013, 01:33 PM   #32
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Let's not forget that this girl is not exactly a little angel. I read that she already has a bad rep. for drinking and lying. I'm in no way condoning what happened to her but what I am saying is her parents need to be held accountible too, no?

There's plenty of blame to go around, and I'd point to this girl's parents too as a shareholder in the guilt of all the kids involved.
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:16 PM   #33
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Okay, so then it's a real-life Lord of the Flies situation? There's a whole lot of shared responsibility that failed, but they seemed to go above and beyond the situation of horny teenagers wanting to "get some".



Maybe the whole town could be considered accessories to rape if we look at extreme measures. The kids who stood around and watched could be either witnesses or accessories to the crime. What about the one who captured it on video? Director/producer/distributor of child pornography? Granted, I've been following the story only topically, so I haven't seen all the details released to the public, but I did see the clip where she was dragged out for public display in either an unconscious or severely altered state where they had to blur out the parts of her body that were exposed.

As a father of a little girl, I can easily imagine the rage of that girl's parents and don't have a problem with marking them for life as sex offenders, forehead branding, castration, long slow violent deaths... whatever. I'm not the judge in that case, nor a jury so I don't have to look at it objectively. This wasn't a simple mistake made by errant teens. It was a drawn out sequence of terrible events that will forever scar the victim - and depending on her emotional structure, could lead to catastrophic circumstances for her later on in life. The ripple effect will be massive. (As it is for anyone who goes through such tragedies)

In Whoopi Goldberg terms: This was Rapity-Rape-Rape.
There is much blame to go around. For me, they did rape the girl and she will never be the same. The two boys should do jail time and more. However, labeling them as sex offenders is tough. This is something that will be with them for the rest of their life while the adults who let this happened is not held responsible. Maybe what I am trying to say is there should be some type of punishment for the parents, the people who hosted the party, the person who sold them the alcohol and anyone else who was at the scene who didn't make any attempt to stop the two boys.

I too am a parent of a girl and can't imagine anything like this happening to her. All I can say is I will do everything in my power to never let her be in a situation like this.
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:31 PM   #34
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There is much blame to go around. For me, they did rape the girl and she will never be the same. The two boys should do jail time and more. However, labeling them as sex offenders is tough. This is something that will be with them for the rest of their life while the adults who let this happened is not held responsible. Maybe what I am trying to say is there should be some type of punishment for the parents, the people who hosted the party, the person who sold them the alcohol and anyone else who was at the scene who didn't make any attempt to stop the two boys.

I too am a parent of a girl and can't imagine anything like this happening to her. All I can say is I will do everything in my power to never let her be in a situation like this.
Bingo. 3 lives have been altered because of 1 night of mayhem involving drinking. Now, I did some wickedly stupid things when I was 17 too and I'm lucky to be alive, that being said, had I had any kind of long term concept of the damage and repercussions my actions caused perhaps I would have NOT been such a hooligan. My parents really didn't monitor my activities as I had good grades and played sports and whatnot, that being said, if they had known... yah, ass fried.

Parents need to be involved with their kids, especially at this age. They can't be naieve (spelling?). They can't ignore things like drinking and partying. They can't blame others for the consequences of their kid's behavior. They have to look in the mirror and accept that they are the most culpible adult in their kid's lives, period.

These two football players, I feel bad for them, I do. They have been living a lie. They have been coddled and enabled by not only their parents, but by the community as a whole. They made extremely bad choices and they advertised it, not only that, they were perhaps cheered along as it happened?
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:32 PM   #35
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I think it's wrong to label people there whole lives as sex offenders over this. One incident IMO unless its henious does not meet a standard for someone who is a life long threat deserved of being shunned by society forever.

We need to rethink the sex offender registry. How come we can't have a registry of violent people also. Hell make it so once convicted you can't work or have anywhere to live. That will work out well for us when we have 100's of thousands of former criminals forced to a life of crime over one incident.

A more sane judicial system would send these boys to detention for 1 yr. Then probation and on to the sex offenders list for 5 yrs. But after 5 yrs if no more incidents i think they should be able to get off the list.

i agree some people, like rapists of little children deserve to never get off the list but i would honestly rather just kill them and be done with it. Then save the offenders list for people we see as potential good citizens that just made a bad decision like these boys did.

The sex offender registry doesn't really mean anything in the age of google. These guys need to worry about the Google registry more than the sex offender registry, because even if they weren't listed in the SOR, their names will be in Google forever.
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:08 PM   #36
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Its depends on the State, and depends on the offense. Sexually Violent Predators (SVP) should never ger off the list, ever, and is most places you don;t have an appeal to the Sex Offender status. Then you have the grey area, the drunken party offense, the text my junk offense, the kids sexually axtive one being 18 one being 17 but consensual. At least in Florida, you have 1 appeal to your placement on the Sex Offender registry, 1 shot.

I have a good friend whose brother was caught in a Sting in Florida, chatting explcitly with a 16 year old girl... when she asked him to meet, he declined and told her he could no longer chat... 3 months later he was arrested. He spent 90 days in jail, is an registered S.O., and finally found one place that would hire him on as a pyschiatrist (only because they emphathize with him as they treat offenders of all sorts, and not underage pateints)... he's still on curfew, get random police checks, can't have a computer in his home, and attends therapy manadated by the State a few times per week and high expense... he has 1 appeal in Florida, one of the thoughest states on offenders, or its a life time deal. The question is, is this harsh, or do these people have tendency to repeat and shoud we protect our children at all costs?

First off I want to say i am not defending sex offenders. but I have heard the rate of repeat offenses is really low for sex offenders once they get released from prison. The re offending rates not high at all.
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:10 PM   #37
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The sex offender registry doesn't really mean anything in the age of google. These guys need to worry about the Google registry more than the sex offender registry, because even if they weren't listed in the SOR, their names will be in Google forever.
Google doesn't stop you from living somewhere though. What we are doing in CA is herding them all into one area. Then when govt finds them living in a building that is legal they buy up a small plot of land and put a park bench on it. Literaly some of the cities have built parks about 40 sq feet lol. Then they say sorry you are now within a restricted area you all need to move.

My point is more what do these people do when there is no where left to live? Maybe just decide to commit henious crimes IMO.
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Old 03-18-2013, 03:12 PM   #38
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The sex offender registry doesn't really mean anything in the age of google. These guys need to worry about the Google registry more than the sex offender registry, because even if they weren't listed in the SOR, their names will be in Google forever.
I know a guy who can write a program/virus that goes out into the internet and erases your name from everywhere. His name? BATMAN!
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:45 PM   #39
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First off I want to say i am not defending sex offenders. but I have heard the rate of repeat offenses is really low for sex offenders once they get released from prison. The re offending rates not high at all.
You are correct sir.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_offender#Recidivism

That said, there is a place for the registry. It just needs massive reform. It should be for a relatively short time following release (except for repeat offenders). It should be reserved for only the most egregious of sex offenses as well.

The sad truth is that the way we've expanded the sex offender registry has made it almost worthless. Right now I probably have 50 registered offenders within a mile of my house. When you do some digging you come to find out that the vast majority of them are on the list for very minor crimes (urinating in public, a 18 year old sleeping with a 15 year old, etc...). It makes it very easy for the possibly dangerous ones to simply be lost in all the noise.

I find it weird that the libertarians ont his board who decry the TSA as "security theater" fail to recognize that this is exactly the same thing. We keep expanding the registry because the terrified voting public sees it as a "get tough on crime" measure. It's not.
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Old 03-18-2013, 05:51 PM   #40
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First off I want to say i am not defending sex offenders. but I have heard the rate of repeat offenses is really low for sex offenders once they get released from prison. The re offending rates not high at all.
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Old 03-18-2013, 06:00 PM   #41
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Let's not forget that this girl is not exactly a little angel. I read that she already has a bad rep. for drinking and lying. I'm in no way condoning what happened to her but what I am saying is her parents need to be held accountible too, no?

There's plenty of blame to go around, and I'd point to this girl's parents too as a shareholder in the guilt of all the kids involved.
Yeah, all 16 year old girls who lie and drink should be raped. She probably was wearing slutty clothes too! That whorea
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:10 PM   #42
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Let's not forget that this girl is not exactly a little angel. I read that she already has a bad rep. for drinking and lying. I'm in no way condoning what happened to her but what I am saying is her parents need to be held accountible too, no?

There's plenty of blame to go around, and I'd point to this girl's parents too as a shareholder in the guilt of all the kids involved.
Yes, the victim's parents are to blame for her being 1) dragged out of a building passed out 2) having her top pulled off while people take pictures of it and joke about it 3) being raped in a car while someone else films it 4) being taken back to a house and stripped while someone masturbates on her 5) having a penis forced into her mouth at an attempt at oral sex while she was passed out 6) having another guy offer $5 if someone peed on her while she was passed out and then 7) have a bunch of guys upstairs laugh about it and say she was dead and raped

Yes, sir, the victim's parents sure ought to pay for that.
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Old 03-18-2013, 07:15 PM   #43
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First off I want to say i am not defending sex offenders. but I have heard the rate of repeat offenses is really low for sex offenders once they get released from prison. The re offending rates not high at all.
Uhm. Actually, it's fairly high. Historically, the lowest rates of recidivism (for people leaving prison after serving sentences for serious crimes) are among people convicted of homicides. Why, I don't know. It's not just an age thing, because even back in the days when you could get 6-8 years for a 2d degree murder, and half that for heat of passion manslaughter, it was still true. Maybe they just get it out of their system.

Also, I don't know about other states, but in Colorado, hardly anyone gets out of prison after being convicted of a serious sex offense. They carry indeterminate life sentences, and, before they are released, the parole board has to certify that they wil probably never commit another crime. The parole board rarely does that. I know that from about 2000-2009 there were about 1,000 people in Colorado sentenced under the lifetime act and only 5 or 6 were paroled. At least a couple of those had their parole revoked for noncompliance with some condition.

Oddly, you can get probation instead of prison for a sex offense, but many of those people get revoked as well. And then it's indeterminate life.
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:22 PM   #44
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Yes, the victim's parents are to blame for her being 1) dragged out of a building passed out 2) having her top pulled off while people take pictures of it and joke about it 3) being raped in a car while someone else films it 4) being taken back to a house and stripped while someone masturbates on her 5) having a penis forced into her mouth at an attempt at oral sex while she was passed out 6) having another guy offer $5 if someone peed on her while she was passed out and then 7) have a bunch of guys upstairs laugh about it and say she was dead and raped

Yes, sir, the victim's parents sure ought to pay for that.
Again, the girl has a history, which I think the parents of said girl are responsible for. And you sir, can't read or comprehend to save your life, so piss off.
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:23 PM   #45
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Yeah, all 16 year old girls who lie and drink should be raped. She probably was wearing slutty clothes too! That whorea
That's not what I said, but whatever...
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:16 AM   #46
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These two kids lives are over and that is a great thing. They even cried in court and one of them was like "my life is over!" Yes it is buddy, yes it is. You are a registered sex offender for life and any employer googling your name for the rest of your life will see this as the first thing that come up on google page 1.

Now, some empathetic soul might say "aw that's too bad for these two boys. They were just kids and now some alcohol fuel night is going to haunt them the rest of their lives."

Yes. Yes it will. Let this be a lesson to other dumb kids who think, just because they are on the football team in HS, can do what they want. No you can't.
Yeah, I agree. I bet it's not the first time they did something like this. It jus tmight be the first time they posted it to the internet.
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:21 AM   #47
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Let's not forget that this girl is not exactly a little angel. I read that she already has a bad rep. for drinking and lying. I'm in no way condoning what happened to her but what I am saying is her parents need to be held accountible too, no?

There's plenty of blame to go around, and I'd point to this girl's parents too as a shareholder in the guilt of all the kids involved.
You sound like one of Kobe's attorneys.

Nobody deserves rape.
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:55 AM   #48
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Yes, the victim's parents are to blame for her being 1) dragged out of a building passed out 2) having her top pulled off while people take pictures of it and joke about it 3) being raped in a car while someone else films it 4) being taken back to a house and stripped while someone masturbates on her 5) having a penis forced into her mouth at an attempt at oral sex while she was passed out 6) having another guy offer $5 if someone peed on her while she was passed out and then 7) have a bunch of guys upstairs laugh about it and say she was dead and raped

Yes, sir, the victim's parents sure ought to pay for that.
That is not what he is saying. Nobody deserved to be raped and humiliated like that girl, nobody! What he is saying is why is that girl at a party drinking when she is still 16yrs old? Where are the parents? According to witnesses, this is not her first time drinking and it was normal for her to get drunk at parties. So, why are the parents letting this girl go to parties and drink? The parents must obviously notice the smell of alcohol on her. The parents should be held responsible for what happened to their daughter. To me, the parents are no worse than the parents who go shopping locking up their children in a car under the sun.

This is not a case of wrong place wrong time. It wasn't like she was walking down the street and was brutally attacked and raped. She attended the party with the intention to drink. She drank until she passed out. She is at a party with a bunch of drunk kids she don't even know. Bad things will happen when your passed out drunk rolling on the ground! Bad people do bad things. I don't go to the hood and cry foul because i was robbed at gun point.
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:50 AM   #49
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That is not what he is saying. Nobody deserved to be raped and humiliated like that girl, nobody! What he is saying is why is that girl at a party drinking when she is still 16yrs old? Where are the parents? According to witnesses, this is not her first time drinking and it was normal for her to get drunk at parties. So, why are the parents letting this girl go to parties and drink? The parents must obviously notice the smell of alcohol on her. The parents should be held responsible for what happened to their daughter. To me, the parents are no worse than the parents who go shopping locking up their children in a car under the sun.

This is not a case of wrong place wrong time. It wasn't like she was walking down the street and was brutally attacked and raped. She attended the party with the intention to drink. She drank until she passed out. She is at a party with a bunch of drunk kids she don't even know. Bad things will happen when your passed out drunk rolling on the ground! Bad people do bad things. I don't go to the hood and cry foul because i was robbed at gun point.
Ah, so if the girl is 21, it's okay to rape her. Got it. Thank you for clearing that up.
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Old 03-19-2013, 08:04 AM   #50
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How fragile the wall between us and savagery. When we see the scenes of Auschwitz or Bosnia or Mogadishu played out, or other place names ad infinitum, we cringe and turn away and say, "That's not me." But how thick are the walls of our society that hold our own evil at bay? Thin as paper. Look at Hurricane Katrina? What did they call it at Nuremberg? The banality of evil. When evil becomes mundane. Last night on TV, serial killers were shoving spears into people's guts. The blood covered spear came out the woman's back. The goo came out and the victim barfed blood. It's a top rated show. Is it Satan? Or us?

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