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Old 03-14-2013, 01:50 PM   #26
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I don't think mcgahee gets enough credit for his short yardage ability. He's still just as good as a Steven Jackson in that aspect, and has about the same amount of wear and tear. He's a good pass protecter too. It's catching the ball and fumbling that were the big issues with him last year, but I think he could still give a good year or two as a short yardage back.

Moreno is average at best as a RB...good receiver out of the backfield though.

Hillman was marginal last year but brings some speed and should get better this year.

I'd rather cut Moreno and pair a rookie like Lacy, Bell, or Michael with McGahee. Willis in a number two role will be better than Willis in a number one role, like he's had to play the last few years.


I know this is a CRAZY thought... but given that he got to under 200lbs.... has anyone ever considered that Moreno might be a better WR than HB?

I feel like his natural cut-up weight is around 5'11", 195. And his 10-yard split was less than impressive, although he has the straight-line speed.

He could be a good down field blocker, too.
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:01 PM   #27
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RB is NOT a speed position. That is a copout. Period. He plays faster than he times, and despite that and people lining up to stop him, he dominated at times with no real passing threat last year (See Oregon). I hate it when people use non football numbers to quantify draftees. Sure it does matter, his lack of speed will keep him from being the 1st back off the board.

However, remember TD and Emmit Smith also had Horrible combine numbers. With Smith, Johnson knew what he was getting and did not blink to take him in the first round. No one Knew about TD coming out, except he had durability issues. No one Knew about Morris last year either. He was not even in the top 30 RB's coming out, mainly due to his speed, or lack thereof and small school stature.

Tell me he can not impact in the NFL because of his speed. Seriously. I,ll show a ton of RB who did, despite their speed.

RB is NOT a speed position.

I agree to a point. But if you don't have speed, you'd better have agility, explosion, balance, or some other attribute to make you successful. At least if you run a 4.4, we know you can run in a straight line for a touchdown if the Red Sea parts. Emmitt was very agile and had incredible balance, he also had one of the best O-lines ever. TD had great balance and explosion, but also played in a superb system with elite O-linemen. Morris actually tested well in the agility drills, he was just somewhat slow, and he's in Shanahan's system with defenses keying on Griffin's playactions.

Scheme can make a RB, and scheme made Johnson successful at Stanford, just like it did with Gerhart before him. I agree with your point that if a RB fits a scheme, that team should draft him. But, they should draft him at the right draft value. I am hesitant to believe in Johnson at the NFL level though due to his lack of athleticism in every conceivable way. Intelligence and toughness can only get you so far. We'll see how far it can get you with Johnson's career in the year(s) to come.
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:08 PM   #28
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You know how bad we could have used a sledge hammer like this against Baltimore? Guy makes Jarvis Jones look like a boy a few times in this video. Guys don't want to tackle him. I have questions about how he carries the ball but I imagine that's a coaching thing that can be fixed. Guy is a beast. Get the LB's playing on their toes so they don't get embarrassed in the run game, means they are late to their pass coverage duties. If they play the pass, thats Lacy knocking them about 3 yds back on contact. Pick your poison boys.
No, I'd hate to have him.....

He kind of reminds of Marshawn Lynch a little bit, quick, shifty and still will roll someone in his way...
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:23 PM   #29
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Steelers have Beanie Wells visiting so could be another one off the board soon... http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...or-a-physical/
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:31 PM   #30
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I agree to a point. But if you don't have speed, you'd better have agility, explosion, balance, or some other attribute to make you successful. At least if you run a 4.4, we know you can run in a straight line for a touchdown if the Red Sea parts. Emmitt was very agile and had incredible balance, he also had one of the best O-lines ever. TD had great balance and explosion, but also played in a superb system with elite O-linemen. Morris actually tested well in the agility drills, he was just somewhat slow, and he's in Shanahan's system with defenses keying on Griffin's playactions.

Scheme can make a RB, and scheme made Johnson successful at Stanford, just like it did with Gerhart before him. I agree with your point that if a RB fits a scheme, that team should draft him. But, they should draft him at the right draft value. I am hesitant to believe in Johnson at the NFL level though due to his lack of athleticism in every conceivable way. Intelligence and toughness can only get you so far. We'll see how far it can get you with Johnson's career in the year(s) to come.
I totally agree about the agility and explosion. However, some of that IS mental and is anticipation. Not being the fastest or quickest physically does not mean you can not have agility or explosion on the field. Jerry Rice was not horribly athletic coming out, but his cuts and explosion on the field were Legendary. He did this mentally, not physically. Same thing with Emmit Smith. Same thing with Morris.

Watch his tape, his cuts, his blocking set up, and then his explosion through the hole. Tell me he looks slow. If you still think that, well we just have to stop there. To me, he has all the agility and explosion to average 5 yards a carry in the NFL, despite NOT getting to pad his numbers with 80 yard TD runs. He also excels in short yardage getting lean as well as any back i have seen in awhile. That is what I see.


And by Johnson. I think you meant Taylor right?
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:41 PM   #31
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One thing about Tayor is that he is decisive, and that a real great trait in running backs!
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:55 PM   #32
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I totally agree about the agility and explosion. However, some of that IS mental and is anticipation. Not being the fastest or quickest physically does not mean you can not have agility or explosion on the field. Jerry Rice was not horribly athletic coming out, but his cuts and explosion on the field were Legendary. He did this mentally, not physically. Same thing with Emmit Smith. Same thing with Morris.

Watch his tape, his cuts, his blocking set up, and then his explosion through the hole. Tell me he looks slow. If you still think that, well we just have to stop there. To me, he has all the agility and explosion to average 5 yards a carry in the NFL, despite NOT getting to pad his numbers with 80 yard TD runs. He also excels in short yardage getting lean as well as any back i have seen in awhile. That is what I see.


And by Johnson. I think you meant Taylor right?

Yeah, I was just re-watching his game cut-up against USC to make sure I know what I'm talking about. I think in my brain, that somehow triggered Stafon Johnson, the RB, from USC last year or the year before. Happens. Got over a decade of draft prospects tumbling around in my head.

Anyway, the USC game was his best game this year. Here's his complete cut-up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8jwc3NNSZ8


He has the one really nice run, probably his best of the year, with a few jump cut/stutter moves, but 95% of the game is slow plodding into the line for minimal gains, and that's with a lot of emphasis on the FB and blocking TEs.

His tape against Notre Dame, whom Lacy destroyed, was the same thing except there were no big plays, just plodding. That was probably his worst game this year.

He's a good blocker for sure, and has good hands for simple screens, but I'm just skeptical about how much value that alone provides. I do understand those are valuable traits.

Anyway, really looking forward to your other selections in the draft game. Agree or disagree, I can appreciate someone that puts time and research into formulating their opinions.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:37 PM   #33
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you guys truly believe we will go rb first round ?

we win now, thats plan A and I DON'T want the 18 million dolar man
getting blind sided because a rook rb missed his block..................
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:02 PM   #34
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you guys truly believe we will go rb first round ?

we win now, thats plan A and I DON'T want the 18 million dolar man
getting blind sided because a rook rb missed his block..................
I would imagine Hillman will be the passing down back this next season. Hopefully he'll have added 15 lbs of muscle over the offseason. Rookie RBs can be good blockers, some come in ready to go. This Taylor guy that Mediator likes looks like a refined blocking RB. I'm sure there are other rooks like that as well.

Rotoworld broke down Eddie Lacy, here's the brief analysis on his blocking:

Quote:
Lacy was more impressive as a pass protector than catcher. I charted ten of his blitz-pickup opportunities, and he decisively "won" eight. Trailing 29-17 with 4:30 left against Texas A&M, it was Lacy's pad-rattling chip block on RE Damontre Moore that allowed McCarron to drop back cleanly and find receiver Kenny Bell in stride for a 54-yard bomb deep down the middle, nearly sparking a comeback win. Against Notre Dame, Lacy's punishing pass block on blitzing Te'o freed up McCarron to hit receiver Christion Jones for a 27-yard strike deep down the right sideline.
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/cf...nfl-ready-back
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:07 PM   #35
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That Alabama line provided Lacy with holes the size of Colfax.
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:09 PM   #36
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I have a feeling Hillman is on about a 7 thousand calorie a day diet and will come to camp atleast 15 lbs heavier. Theyre counting on him to split carries with someone but who? Hopefully the 2013 version of Alfred Morris that we grab in the 5th.

Whats Knowshons salary? Nothing is guaranteed im sure so theyll see how hard he works this summer and make a decision in camp.

We can always find someone in July-August if we have to.

I think the plan is to draft someone in the mid to late rounds.
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:21 PM   #37
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If he's still there when Denver picks, Fox will take him in a nano-second, just like he did with Jonathan Stewart.

I seriously doubt Fox is the deciding factor in who we do and do not take. He may pipe in every once in awhile, but he aint calling the shots. Honestly, hes lucky to have a job after Januarys debacle.

He's a mediocre football coach, but a decent leader who people like being around. Thats it.
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:33 PM   #38
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Ok here's were I get flamed. What about Hillis. Queefs are going to cut him. He probably goes cheap. He played good ball here. We just make K.M. our GL back.
Hillis has a bad reputation I think, as a bad teammate.

If nobody signs him I guess they could add him as an injury replacement a-la Jacob Hester.

I figure they're looking at an RB somewhere in the draft, round 2-3.
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:36 PM   #39
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JStew would be a decent trade option now... Do you think a 2nd or 3rd and rights to Carter would pull him away?
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:44 PM   #40
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Steven Jackson
Reggie Bush (Signed four-year, $16M deal with DET)
Rashard Mendenhall (Signed one-year, $2.5M deal with ARZ)
Ahmad Bradshaw
Beanie Wells
Cedric Benson
Shonn Greene (Signed three-year, $10M deal with TEN)
Bernard Scott
Michael Turner
Felix Jones
Peyton Hillis
Brandon Jacobs
Danny Woodhead
Cedric Peerman (Signed two-year deal with CIN)
Rashad Jennings
La'Rod Stephens-Howling
Justin Forsett
Leon Washington
Javon Ringer
Ronnie Brown
Tim Hightower
Chris Rainey
Kevin Smith
Brian Leonard
Mike Goodson
Jalen Parmele
Ryan Grant
Steve Slaton
Thomas Jones
Joseph Addai
Mewelde Moore
Cadillac Williams
Jackie Battle
Kahlil Bell
Tashard Choice
Brandon Jackson
Ryan Torain (Signed undisclosed deal with NYG)
Stefan Logan
Jerome Harrison
Tyrell Sutton
Darius Reynaud (Signed one-year deal with TEN)
Kregg Lumpkin

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nf...master-list-13
It wouldn't suprise me to see Elway pick up one of the scraps from that list dirt cheap. Trouble is, Elway doesn't have much cash to work with right now, internal budget and all that . . . .
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:55 PM   #41
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Could anybody left on that list beat out KM or a (hopefully healed) McGahee?
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:09 PM   #42
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RB is NOT a speed position. That is a copout. Period. He plays faster than he times, and despite that and people lining up to stop him, he dominated at times with no real passing threat last year (See Oregon). I hate it when people use non football numbers to quantify draftees. Sure it does matter, his lack of speed will keep him from being the 1st back off the board.

However, remember TD and Emmit Smith also had Horrible combine numbers. With Smith, Johnson knew what he was getting and did not blink to take him in the first round. No one Knew about TD coming out, except he had durability issues. No one Knew about Morris last year either. He was not even in the top 30 RB's coming out, mainly due to his speed, or lack thereof and small school stature.

Tell me he can not impact in the NFL because of his speed. Seriously. I,ll show a ton of RB who did, despite their speed.

RB is NOT a speed position.
I play running back at the d-1 level, a position I've played my whole life. I know what it takes to play the position well and I've studied a lot of the great backs on tape. The problem with Taylor's lack of speed is that he isn't overly elusive or powerful. He's a jack of all trades, master of none- type.
Could he do well in the right system? Sure. That dude for the redskins isn't anything special, he just got put in the right system. Taylor may be decent in the manning offense, but I think lacy or bell would be better in the system.
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:11 PM   #43
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Beanie maybe.
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:54 PM   #44
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Could anybody left on that list beat out KM or a (hopefully healed) McGahee?
Bradshaw definitely and maybe Felix jones. Maybe a trade for blount from Tampa. I just don't think any rookie will get substantial playing time. I honestly think they expect Hillman to be the guy.
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:04 PM   #45
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The only guy left in free agency worth a turd is Bradshaw. I don't think I'd spend my #1 on Lacy. Although, some say the Jets will take in early in the 2nd if he gets through.

I would be o.k. using a 3rd...or trading a 3rd.........for the right guy (Williams/Stewart). You can probably draft Taylor in the 3rd.

I hope we use our 1st and 2nd on MLB/CB.
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:20 PM   #46
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Bradshaw definitely and maybe Felix jones. Maybe a trade for blount from Tampa. I just don't think any rookie will get substantial playing time. I honestly think they expect Hillman to be the guy.

I don't. Fox believes in two elite RBs.

In 2003, his second season with Carolina, he brought in Stephen Davis and drafted DeShaun Foster high in the draft. Davis had 300 carries, Foster had 100 while mostly playing on passing downs.

In 2004, Davis got hurt early, Fox kept Foster in the passing down role and went with Nick Goings as his bulldozer.

In 2005, Foster became the primary back while Davis struggled in his return from his ACL. Goings went to third string. Foster also remained in the passing down role.

In 2006, Fox spent a 1st Round pick on DeAngelo Williams. Foster was the primary RB, while DeAngelo took over the passing down work. Carries were split about 230, to 120.

In 2007, things remained idential. Foster primary back, Williams passing back/change of pace. Carries were 250, to 150.

In 2008, Fox spent a 1st Round pick on Jonathan Stewart. DeAngelo was the primary back and receiving back, Stewart just was a change of pace. Carries were 275, to 175.

In 2009, the backs had an even split, both went over 1000 yards. DeAngelo played on the passing downs. Carries were roughly 220 each.

In 2010, Fox spent a 3rd Round pick on Mike Goodson. DeAngelo tore his ACL, so Stewart was the main back with Goodson as the passing down back/change of pace. Carriers were 180, to 100. Clausen was QB, so the team didn't have a lot of offensive snaps. This was Fox's last year.

In 2011, Fox now with Denver brought in Willis McGahee, similar to how he brought in Stephen Davis. Moreno was the passing down back until he tore his ACL. , then it became Lance Ball. Carries were 250 McGahee, 120 Tebow, 100 Ball.

In 2012, Fox spent a 3rd Round pick on Ronnie Hillman. McGahee was the primary back until his injury, Hillman was the 3rd down back. Moreno jumped to the two down back when McGahee went down. Hillman stayed as passing down back/change of pace. Carries were around 300 for McGahee/Moreno, and 85 for Hillman.

In 2013, Fox will spend a 1st Round pick on Eddie Lacy. I expect it will look alot like 2008 with Hillman as the passing down back and primary RB until Lacy becomes that guy, which would probably be 2014. At which time we will have our own DeAngelo/Stewart multi 1000 yard combo situation.
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:21 PM   #47
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HB is a HUGE issue going into next year. Hillman played well in the playoff game but still has a ways to go. Willis is basically done. I don't trust Knowshon at all really. Playoff game was case and point... proved he could be the answer for a majority of the year, playoffs hit and he gets injured and leaves us out to dry in the 2nd half. I'm not even clear when he got hurt but it was enough to take him out for the game.

Denver needs to solve this issue by the time the draft is concluded. Lacy would look nasty in Blue and Orange.
I believe there are several threads on-going about RB, but thanks, it's the Mane, we can always use another.
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:24 PM   #48
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eh....I wouldn't use a first round pick on Lacy, or any RB for that matter.
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:25 PM   #49
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you guys truly believe we will go rb first round ?

we win now, thats plan A and I DON'T want the 18 million dolar man
getting blind sided because a rook rb missed his block..................
NO. And anybody here who thinks any RB is going in the 1st round is delusional. Lacy top of the 2nd. A few others mid second, and so on.
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:29 PM   #50
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The only guy left in free agency worth a turd is Bradshaw. I don't think I'd spend my #1 on Lacy. Although, some say the Jets will take in early in the 2nd if he gets through.

I would be o.k. using a 3rd...or trading a 3rd.........for the right guy (Williams/Stewart). You can probably draft Taylor in the 3rd.

I hope we use our 1st and 2nd on MLB/CB.
Well, we have our DeAngelo Williams in Ronnie Hillman. We need a Jonathan Stewart. Carolina is not trading him.

So that means we need a 6'0, 230 lb RB that runs a 4.4, is durable, and can be a battering ram capable of 300 carries. Lets see....is there any RB in the draft like that?

Yes. There are three. Only one of which seems like a remotely sure thing.

1. Eddie Lacy
2. Christine Michael
3. Knile Davis

And, of course, our own made of glass, Mario Fannin.



As for CB. I don't see it. We are going to carry five in all likelihood. Champ, DRC, Harris, Carter, and Bolden. We already carry an extra secondary guy just for special teams in Bruton. I doubt we draft a CB unless it's late and we think we can get him on our Practice Squad, or leave him as a gameday inactive.
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