The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-11-2013, 10:36 PM   #451
Bacchus
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalBronco View Post
There is no need for Revis. Haven't we learned by now that you build the pass defense from the inside out? We can have 50 corners.....they won't hold up everytime for 5 seconds if there is no rush. We finally saw how the pass rush magically made everything better and now were going back to the old recipe which is not good. Denver has a veteran who had one awful game and two really nice youngsters at corner. We're fine. If you want to add another in the draft somewhere fine....but Revis creates over saturation of financial assets in one position...never a good thing when you have a finite cap...and a self imposed budget on top of it. Keep Doom....it's only one year where the hit is rough it goes down next year. They've been cheap asses for the vast majority of this century. I'm tired of it.
I agree, I don't want Revis and I think Denver isn't even looking at him.

What I wanted Denver to do this FA was to sign a couple of quality FA and look toward the draft and build from there. Then wait for training camp cuts to fill out the roster. Always good players available cheap there. It seems we might be committing the mistakes we went through in the 2000's.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 10:39 PM   #452
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 19,435

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
I can hardly wait for the next mediocre $3M 'value signing' the FO foists upon us.

If Dumervil goes, the Broncos soul goes with him.
The Broncos soul?

Wtf?
SonOfLe-loLang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 10:42 PM   #453
SonOfLe-loLang
Young Buck
 
SonOfLe-loLang's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 19,435

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Thunder (RIP)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalBronco View Post
There is no need for Revis. Haven't we learned by now that you build the pass defense from the inside out? We can have 50 corners.....they won't hold up everytime for 5 seconds if there is no rush. We finally saw how the pass rush magically made everything better and now were going back to the old recipe which is not good. Denver has a veteran who had one awful game and two really nice youngsters at corner. We're fine. If you want to add another in the draft somewhere fine....but Revis creates over saturation of financial assets in one position...never a good thing when you have a finite cap...and a self imposed budget on top of it. Keep Doom....it's only one year where the hit is rough it goes down next year. They've been cheap asses for the vast majority of this century. I'm tired of it.
I agree there's no need for revis, but if they took Doom's money, signed a guy they feel could somewhat replicate his performance, while adding a couple of other pieces they wouldnt have normally afforded, im ok with it.

All that said, I'd still rather keep him.

Last edited by SonOfLe-loLang; 03-11-2013 at 10:51 PM..
SonOfLe-loLang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2013, 10:52 PM   #454
pricejj
jungle
 
pricejj's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Louisville, CO
Posts: 8,790
Default

It ain't Dumervil's fault. It's McDaniels fault for back-loading the crap out of the contract.

Dumervil's base salary was $630k in the first year of a 6 year $61.5M contract, just so McDaniels could hire all his Patriot back-up buddies. That assmonkey is still screwing this team 3 years after he was fired.

Last edited by pricejj; 03-11-2013 at 10:54 PM..
pricejj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 01:02 AM   #455
ZONA
Ring of Famer
 
ZONA's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 10,098

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Chris Harris
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
I agree there's no need for revis, but if they took Doom's money, signed a guy they feel could somewhat replicate his performance, while adding a couple of other pieces they wouldnt have normally afforded, im ok with it.

All that said, I'd still rather keep him.
No need for Revis? I imagine anybody who watched that playoff loss wouldn't exactly agree. He's a dominant CB. Some may not like his proposed price tag but you can't argue he would be a monster upgrade over the CB opposite of Bailey.
ZONA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 01:36 AM   #456
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,726
Default

There is always a need for a great player regardless of position. Elway better have more up his sleeve then just dropping Doom because he may not be worth 10-12 mil a yr. I have faith he will add a great player so stay tuned.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 01:39 AM   #457
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 36,726
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCStud View Post
Love this. Now you guys will probably sign some old past-his-prime DE like Dwight Freeney.
It's the most wonderful time of the year! It's Christmas time for Queef fans everyone.....THE OFFSEASON where dreams of not sucking dance through their heads.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 06:27 AM   #458
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 18,842
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCStud View Post
Love this. Now you guys will probably sign some old past-his-prime DE like Dwight Freeney.
Maybe. But they'd be paying him less than half what they'd have to pay Dumervil, and he'd only be a partial replacement along with Ayers, Jackson, Hunter and/or whover else they line up in that spot. And with the savings they can address other needs.
TonyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 06:46 AM   #459
kent156
King of the Ants
 
kent156's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Paradise lost
Posts: 734
Default

true ^ if anything last season showed you can have a good pass rush but if the QB just does a three-step drop and your coverage sucks you will lose
kent156 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 06:51 AM   #460
Drek
Ring of Famer
 
Drek's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,368
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricejj View Post
It ain't Dumervil's fault. It's McDaniels fault for back-loading the crap out of the contract.

Dumervil's base salary was $630k in the first year of a 6 year $61.5M contract, just so McDaniels could hire all his Patriot back-up buddies. That assmonkey is still screwing this team 3 years after he was fired.
Code:
YEAR          BASE	   S. BONUS       MISC.	        CAP HIT	 
2010	        630,000	   500,000	      -          1,130,000
2011	     14,000,000	   500,000	 1,123,000	15,623,000
2012	     14,000,000	   500,000	 1,123,000	15,623,000	
2013	     12,000,000	   500,000	 1,123,000	13,623,000	
2014	     10,000,000	   500,000	 1,123,000	11,623,000
2015	      8,193,335	   500,000	 1,123,000	 9,816,335
That is the contract McDaniels gave Doom. It was light on year one because that is when the bonus was actually paid out and per Elway's own comments this team runs a "cash cap". So paying the guaranteed up front and then doling the rest out via bigger base salaries is how you actually balance the accounting.

The contract as you can see is actually front loaded as a result of that, with the major salaries and the major cap hits on the front end. This is the first of a three year close out where Doom's contract drops 2M in both base salary and cap hit year on year.

The hire that suddenly makes this a "bad" contract is one Peyton Manning and his massive salary, squeezing the budget while lobbying for Doom's replacement with Dwight Freeney (you don't sign Freeney if you still have Doom, they're redundant).
Drek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 07:50 AM   #461
BroncoBeavis
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drek View Post
The hire that suddenly makes this a "bad" contract is one Peyton Manning and his massive salary, squeezing the budget while lobbying for Doom's replacement with Dwight Freeney (you don't sign Freeney if you still have Doom, they're redundant).
I was hoping that wasn't the case (the lobbying for Freeney thing)

But it makes sense. I sure as hell would think if he weren't pulling for Freeney that if he saw Doom about to walk he'd try to help out by restructuring and freeing up a million or three.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 07:55 AM   #462
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 18,842
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drek View Post
The hire that suddenly makes this a "bad" contract is one Peyton Manning and his massive salary, squeezing the budget while lobbying for Doom's replacement with Dwight Freeney (you don't sign Freeney if you still have Doom, they're redundant).
Some truth to this. But without PM this is an 8-8 football team instead of a Super Bowl contender. And as I keep saying Freeney is not Doom's "replacement".
TonyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 07:59 AM   #463
Rabb
No Luca, No!
 
Rabb's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 7,374

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Dynamite Monkey
Default

Unfortunately even though we are in "win now" mode with PMFM here...we are still in somewhat of a rebuilding and cleanup mode.
Rabb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 08:04 AM   #464
BroncoBeavis
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kent156 View Post
true ^ if anything last season showed you can have a good pass rush but if the QB just does a three-step drop and your coverage sucks you will lose
I don't remember a whole lot of 3-step drops by JF in the playoffs. Lack of pressure was probably the biggest factor on defense. Miller was in coverage far too often.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 08:16 AM   #465
Hercules Rockefeller
Ring of Famer
 
Hercules Rockefeller's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 16,261

Adopt-a-Bronco:
DJ Williams
Default

People are also forgetting that Doom's contract was signed under the last CBA, when you could prorate cap hits for bonuses and restructure the contract by turning base salaries into bonuses later on, compared to the new CBA where what someone is actually paid that season is now their cap hit. 3 years ago, Denver could simply restructure the contract and convert the bulk of the $14M into a new bonus and spread it out. That's not possible anymore.
Hercules Rockefeller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 08:20 AM   #466
Drek
Ring of Famer
 
Drek's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,368
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
Some truth to this. But without PM this is an 8-8 football team instead of a Super Bowl contender. And as I keep saying Freeney is not Doom's "replacement".
Without Peyton Manning we lose in the divisional round of the playoffs. Oh wait....
Drek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 08:35 AM   #467
TonyR
Franchise Poster
 
TonyR's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 18,842
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drek View Post
Without Peyton Manning we lose in the divisional round of the playoffs. Oh wait....
^ You're better than resorting to this silly argument.
TonyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 08:37 AM   #468
BroncoInferno
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,212
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drek View Post
Without Peyton Manning we lose in the divisional round of the playoffs. Oh wait....
Did Macgruder hack Drek's account? That's a stupid, lazy argument and you know it.

Last edited by BroncoInferno; 03-12-2013 at 08:50 AM..
BroncoInferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 08:49 AM   #469
Requiem
~~~
 
Requiem's Avatar
 
~ ~ ~

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Earth Division
Posts: 23,325

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Princes of Tara
Default

Drek is slipping.
Requiem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 09:12 AM   #470
eddie mac
Ireland's No1 Bronco
 
eddie mac's Avatar
 
Eddie Mac 87 gone but never forgott

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: IRELAND
Posts: 16,704

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Rod Smith
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller View Post
People are also forgetting that Doom's contract was signed under the last CBA, when you could prorate cap hits for bonuses and restructure the contract by turning base salaries into bonuses later on, compared to the new CBA where what someone is actually paid that season is now their cap hit. 3 years ago, Denver could simply restructure the contract and convert the bulk of the $14M into a new bonus and spread it out. That's not possible anymore.
It still is, Dallas just did it with half their roster, the Saints and Bucs did it too with high base-salaried players. Broncos could drop Doom's $12m base today to $1m if they wanted, pay him an $11m signing bonus and prorate the hit over the next 3 seasons. Problem is they dont want to give him the $12m at all in any format regardless of cap savings, this has always been about saving cash and value for money.
eddie mac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 09:23 AM   #471
BroncoBeavis
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie mac View Post
It still is, Dallas just did it with half their roster, the Saints and Bucs did it too with high base-salaried players. Broncos could drop Doom's $12m base today to $1m if they wanted, pay him an $11m signing bonus and prorate the hit over the next 3 seasons. Problem is they dont want to give him the $12m at all in any format regardless of cap savings, this has always been about saving cash and value for money.
Say it. Broke Ass Bowlen. Just say it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 09:24 AM   #472
Drek
Ring of Famer
 
Drek's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,368
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyR View Post
^ You're better than resorting to this silly argument.
I was responding to an equally disingenuous argument with one of my own, if you want better quality responses from me don't post **** like "without Peyton we were 8-8, now we're a Super Bowl contender". Ignoring that the previous QB got us to that 8-8 record despite the FO's best efforts to the contrary (trading Lloyd post-haste when they made the switch) and his predecessor's 1-4 start, or that being a Super Bowl contender now just requires you to make it into the divisional round when last year that apparently wasn't good enough.

Manning is an obvious improvement at QB, no ****. But he's being paid a ton of money to be that upgrade and is a short term patch. He's here to win Super Bowls quickly, or barring that at least a few playoff games. So far he's done jack **** of that.

Doesn't mean it was a bad move getting him, but it's pretty bull**** to let the guy who hasn't done the job we hired him to do start lobbying for his boys at the expense of a lifelong Denver Bronco.

Odds are in 20 years Manning's time here will be a blip on the radar. Doom has the talent and career to date of being a legacy. But that apparently doesn't mean ****, current management would rather roll the dice of winning with rentals than actually build a tradition of class and legacy great players within the Broncos brand.

This is why saying that we're now the Denver Mannings is a very accurate critique of organizational philosophy. Manning will get what Manning wants, **** everybody else.
Drek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 09:33 AM   #473
BroncoInferno
Ring of Famer
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,212
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drek View Post
I was responding to an equally disingenuous argument with one of my own, if you want better quality responses from me don't post **** like "without Peyton we were 8-8, now we're a Super Bowl contender". Ignoring that the previous QB got us to that 8-8 record despite the FO's best efforts to the contrary (trading Lloyd post-haste when they made the switch) and his predecessor's 1-4 start, or that being a Super Bowl contender now just requires you to make it into the divisional round when last year that apparently wasn't good enough.

Manning is an obvious improvement at QB, no ****. But he's being paid a ton of money to be that upgrade and is a short term patch. He's here to win Super Bowls quickly, or barring that at least a few playoff games. So far he's done jack **** of that.

Doesn't mean it was a bad move getting him, but it's pretty bull**** to let the guy who hasn't done the job we hired him to do start lobbying for his boys at the expense of a lifelong Denver Bronco.

Odds are in 20 years Manning's time here will be a blip on the radar. Doom has the talent and career to date of being a legacy. But that apparently doesn't mean ****, current management would rather roll the dice of winning with rentals than actually build a tradition of class and legacy great players within the Broncos brand.

This is why saying that we're now the Denver Mannings is a very accurate critique of organizational philosophy. Manning will get what Manning wants, **** everybody else.
You really think Manning is telling the front office to release Doom and sign Freeney? Really? And where is there any evidence at all that Manning is dictating terms to the front office?
BroncoInferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 09:46 AM   #474
Drek
Ring of Famer
 
Drek's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,368
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoInferno View Post
You really think Manning is telling the front office to release Doom and sign Freeney? Really? And where is there any evidence at all that Manning is dictating terms to the front office?
We've already had multiple sources say he's "lobbying" for Freeney. This team with Doom has no role for Freeney.

The only reason there is any kind of cap/cash tightness on the books currently is because of Manning. So regardless of how actively he's pushing his agenda the only reasons the team would have to release Doom tie directly to Manning being here.

I doubt he's dictating terms at all though, because I'd bet that Elway is in 100% agreement with him. Non-QBs are disposable.
Drek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2013, 10:03 AM   #475
Rascal
RIP
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 17,132

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Turf
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
Say it. Broke Ass Bowlen. Just say it.
I've said it several times and I get blasted for it despite evidence confirming it.
Rascal is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:34 PM.


Denver Broncos