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Old 03-11-2013, 10:25 AM   #351
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So 2 tackles and no sacks in 3 games is good?
I'm sure it's as cut and dry as the stats say.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:37 AM   #352
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So 2 tackles and no sacks in 3 games is good?
Three games is basically meaningless as a sample size. Especially when those games are spread out over the course of the season.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:39 AM   #353
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I'm sure it's as cut and dry as the stats say.
The two games he played against Arizona and Oakland, he racked up 5 sacks.

The two games he played against playoff teams, he didn't record a single tackle, let alone sacks or FF.

If we have a problem with how Doom plays in big games, Abraham is not the solution.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:44 AM   #354
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Three games is basically meaningless as a sample size. Especially when those games are spread out over the course of the season.
One playoff game is enough of a sample size, though.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:47 AM   #355
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One playoff game is enough of a sample size, though.
No, it isn't. It's not fair when folks do that to Doom, either. That said, Abraham had .5 sack fewer than Doom in 2012. If you can get that kind of production for, say, $5 million versus $12 million, I think you take the latter from a value perspective.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:56 AM   #356
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No, it isn't. It's not fair when folks do that to Doom, either. That said, Abraham had .5 sack fewer than Doom in 2012. If you can get that kind of production for, say, $5 million versus $12 million, I think you take the latter from a value perspective.
Exactly and it's not lije Abraham had a beast like Miller on the other side of him either.
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:59 AM   #357
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No, it isn't. It's not fair when folks do that to Doom, either. That said, Abraham had .5 sack fewer than Doom in 2012. If you can get that kind of production for, say, $5 million versus $12 million, I think you take the latter from a value perspective.
Doom had at least 9 games with a sack, Von 12,... how many games did Abraham impacted with at least a sack? 7, but half of them came in 2 games against god awful OL's (OAK and ARI). He also had sacks against SD and PHI. He went against awful competition most of the year. Just say no to Abraham. Prefer to go with Ayers over him.
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:00 AM   #358
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Exactly and it's not lije Abraham had a beast like Miller on the other side of him either.
The same way Doom helps Von be more beastly!
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:04 AM   #359
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The same way Doom helps Von be more beastly!
Except if you understand our scheme, that isn't the case at all. That has already been outlined bout about a half-dozen quality posters. Mediator12's post hit it out of the park. Tell us how a 5'11 defensive end at RE frees up our SAM to make plays?
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:06 AM   #360
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Except if you understand our scheme, that isn't the case at all. That has already been outlined bout about a half-dozen quality posters. Mediator12's post hit it out of the park. Tell us how a 5'11 defensive end at RE frees up our SAM to make plays?
So you are telling me Doom didn't help flush the QB to Von's side and vice versa?
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:14 AM   #361
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Sry but logically I just can't think that a team with book end pass rushers won't suffer after subtracting one from the equation. There is a reason guys like JPP struggled this year with the rush after dominating the previous year. He didn't have a healthy complement on the other side for most of the season.

Sry, hope I am wrong, but unless that the one that comes in a replaces Doom is better, Von won't have a season like last.
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:17 AM   #362
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Except if you understand our scheme, that isn't the case at all. That has already been outlined bout about a half-dozen quality posters. Mediator12's post hit it out of the park. Tell us how a 5'11 defensive end at RE frees up our SAM to make plays?
Uh, the offense has to account for a guy that gets double digit sacks regularly in their blocking schemes. Utilizing resources on the left for Doom means there are fewer resources to utilize on the right for Von.
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:21 AM   #363
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Uh, the offense has to account for a guy that gets double digit sacks regularly in their blocking schemes. Utilizing resources on the left for Doom means there are fewer resources to utilize on the right for Von.
The opposite.
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:23 AM   #364
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Doom had at least 9 games with a sack, Von 12,... how many games did Abraham impacted with at least a sack? 7, but half of them came in 2 games against god awful OL's (OAK and ARI). He also had sacks against SD and PHI. He went against awful competition most of the year. Just say no to Abraham. Prefer to go with Ayers over him.
He beat the same tackles doom beat. The each roasted sorry competition.
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:31 AM   #365
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He beat the same tackles doom beat. The each roasted sorry competition.
You are right about half of it. Doom day raped the hell out of Joe Thomas against CLE. He also beat the LT of HOU, you know, another Pro Bowler, and got sacks against very solid LT's in CAR and CIN. Who did Abraham beat? Nobodies!
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:43 AM   #366
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That is perfect logic, after reading all these posts I still fail to see how Denver gets better by cutting Doom.
The Broncos don't get better by cutting Dumervil. But they have no choice. That's why we're screwed, unless Dumervil agrees to a major paycut. Which he won't do.
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:48 AM   #367
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Uh, the offense has to account for a guy that gets double digit sacks regularly in their blocking schemes. Utilizing resources on the left for Doom means there are fewer resources to utilize on the right for Von.
Exactly. You can't double-team both Von and Elvis. That's why it's imperative that the Broncos have a playmaker at RDE. Someone who can beat his man consistently (i.e. Elvis Dumervil).

The Broncos don't have any DT's that demand a double-team (Not Wolfe, not Vickerson, not Bannan). Losing Dumervil allows teams to focus solely on Von Miller to stop the Broncos pass-rush.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:15 PM   #368
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The opposite.
I meant offense's left and right, but yeah.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:20 PM   #369
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Don't you think that some team would trade for him? The remainder of his deal is probably cheaper than what someone would have to fork over in guarantees, bonus, etc. in Free Agency. A few outlets have reported that a trade seems more likely -- and they have a few days to figure it out. Incarcerated Bob has been right about a few FA signings well before anyone else and he has speculated a trade is likely soon. YEAH SORRY ABOUT THE SOURCE YOU SOURCE NAZIS.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:30 PM   #370
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Don't you think that some team would trade for him? The remainder of his deal is probably cheaper than what someone would have to fork over in guarantees, bonus, etc. in Free Agency. A few outlets have reported that a trade seems more likely -- and they have a few days to figure it out. Incarcerated Bob has been right about a few FA signings well before anyone else and he has speculated a trade is likely soon. YEAH SORRY ABOUT THE SOURCE YOU SOURCE NAZIS.
I trust him more than most on the board but I'm doubtful that he knows anything about a dumervil trade. He even said in the tweet something like "haven't heard anything on dumervil but I guess he might be traded." He doesn't have info on that situation
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:39 PM   #371
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So you are telling me Doom didn't help flush the QB to Von's side and vice versa?
So basically you are saying JA is way better then Doom because he doesn't have a guy like Miller helping him.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:42 PM   #372
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Don't you think that some team would trade for him? The remainder of his deal is probably cheaper than what someone would have to fork over in guarantees, bonus, etc. in Free Agency. A few outlets have reported that a trade seems more likely -- and they have a few days to figure it out. Incarcerated Bob has been right about a few FA signings well before anyone else and he has speculated a trade is likely soon. YEAH SORRY ABOUT THE SOURCE YOU SOURCE NAZIS.
Ibob also said LeBron James has been linked to roid use.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:42 PM   #373
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So 2 tackles and no sacks in 3 games is good?
small sample size but other things to consider...
how many hurries did he have, errant throws did he force, or how many times did he collapse the pocket/force the QB into the waiting arms of another defender in those games? Lots of pretty important things don't show up on the stat sheet.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:44 PM   #374
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The Broncos don't get better by cutting Dumervil. But they have no choice. That's why we're screwed, unless Dumervil agrees to a major paycut. Which he won't do.
outside of the "budget" i don't understand why it's necessary for Doom to take a pay cut. convert the damn money to a signing bonus like other teams have done and save the cap space.

i know Manning has a fat check coming to him but damn man. Doom ain't exactly a scrub.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:47 PM   #375
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Uh, the offense has to account for a guy that gets double digit sacks regularly in their blocking schemes. Utilizing resources on the left for Doom means there are fewer resources to utilize on the right for Von.
How often did you see the left tackle on any team we played getting tight end help on his side to neutralize Doom?
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