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Old 03-11-2013, 08:13 AM   #126
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You mean other than the multiple media reports? And the clear fact that the Broncos don't appear to be willing to pay Dumervil what he's scheduled to make this season? And that Dumervil is unlikely to take a reduction, and the Broncos probably don't want to restructure?
I haven't read anything that says Denver is going to cut him.


Restructuring…yes.


Trade…yes.


Cut…does anyone have a single link verifying that?

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Old 03-11-2013, 08:19 AM   #127
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What's worse? A guy that racks up stats against scrubs or a guy that doesn't get stats against anyone?
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:24 AM   #128
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I haven't read anything that says Denver is going to cut him.


Restructuring…yes.


Trade…yes.


Cut…does anyone have a single link verifying that?
No, there's no "verifying" any of this. But unfortunately it's a possible (perhaps even likely) outcome.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:27 AM   #129
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No, there's no "verifying" any of this. But unfortunately it's a possible (perhaps even likely) outcome.
So it COULD happen. We can all agree on that.


But…we didn't need a "rumor" to know that did we?


…and here some people are, losing their **** because of this rumor…a rumor that has no verification.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:35 AM   #130
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So it COULD happen. We can all agree on that.


But…we didn't need a "rumor" to know that did we?


…and here some people are, losing their **** because of this rumor…a rumor that has no verification.
I think it's a fairly logical inference to make that if Elvis does not agree to take the pay cut he's been asked by the club to take that they will release him. I mean, if Elvis turns them down, Elway's not just going to say, "Oh, okay, our bust. Just thought we'd ask."
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:37 AM   #131
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^ Perhaps worth mentioning that Mays will probably either take a huge pay cut or be released.
I'm aware of that. Just goes to show they did not learn from their mistake. Production matters.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:40 AM   #132
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What's worse? A guy that racks up stats against scrubs or a guy that doesn't get stats against anyone?
I think the front office has come to the conclusion that they are better off getting rid of one players large contract in hopes to be able to sign several players at other positions of need in order to win a championship. Dumervil is a fan favorite, has been nothing but a team player and a has had a successful NFL career ever since he was drafted all those years ago. Financially -- is he worth it?

His contract was given to him when he had his best season ever as a 3-4 OLB. Depsite the premium on pass rushers in the NFL, is it really worth the Broncos to invest $12 million this year in him, as well as $8-10 million the next three years (not sure what the true total is with bonus) for a guy who has averaged ~ 9 sacks a year as a 4-3 DE?

The coaches and FO must obviously feel he is not worth his salary given his production. After some thought, I do hope we ignore Freeney, but he would probably come on a significant discount by virtue of past production, age and the fact he wants to play with Manning. I think Osi would be a good fit for the defense and would have success under JDR and would come at easily half the price than what we are paying Dumervil now. I think they also might get by with Ayers and Jackson in a rotation. I know JDR raved about Ayers when he had the opportunity to coach him at the Senior Bowl. It will give the FO a good idea if he is a guy worth extending beyond his final year of his rookie contract.

Coupled in with financials, this is about asset allocation. The Broncos know that over the next two off-seasons, several young and rising stars on their roster will be due significant pay raises, they include:
  • Von Miller
  • Demaryius Thomas
  • Eric Decker (FA after this year)
  • Zane Beadles (FA after this year)
  • Chris Harris
  • Wesley Woodyard (FA after this year)
  • Ryan Clady (FA, if he is extended beyond his Franchise Tag)

I wouldn't want to see any of these guys go to another team. This also doesn't include guys like Orlando Franklin and others who have two years remaining on their rookie deals. One or two years left remaing makes up the majority of players on the Broncos roster. Axing Dumervil is part of a process (IMHO) that will give us flexibility in the cap in the long run and dishing him out now will allow the Broncos Brass to set up parameters for new contracts that will have to be given sooner than later.

I assume that Manning/Bailey will be off the books in a couple of more seasons as well. Champ has two years left on his contract and it is known he won't be getting 9 million a year if he decides to give it a last ride past that. At some point in time, I believe Manning will retire (probably in two seasons) or have to be approached about re-structure.

Moving on from Dumervil gets rid of our second largest contract and frees up space for what we need to keep at home for the future, as well as bring in to win now. It is sad to see us cut a guy of his caliber outright, but **** -- we really don't have a choice, now do we? If we want to stay competitive for the long-haul, we need to take care of guys who have a bright future ahead of them.

If getting rid of Dumervil means we can bring in a guy like Osi, as well as being able to dish for Steven Jackson, Reggie Bush, Sean Smith, etc. -- I am all for it. It's quite possible we can get a 2-for-1 or perhaps 3-for-1 on players coming to this roster for what we would be spending on Dumervil alone. I think that is how the FO sees it and I can't blame them. Dumervil, Williams, Mays and likely a few others will be gone and allow us to really make an impact moving forward.

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Old 03-11-2013, 08:54 AM   #133
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I think a big concern with Doom is his size. How long before injuries start becoming the rule with him rather than the exception? Taking the beating that he does at his size?

He's been dinged up off and on the past few years.

The JJ Watt comparison doesn't hold water IMO though. Watt controls a game as both a run stopper and a pass rusher. His size allows that.

I don't want to see Doom go either but I think you can only have about 2 untouchables on a football team and in Denver it's PFM and Von. Outside of those two, who else on this team is indispensible? Champ? He may be the closest.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:58 AM   #134
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I think the front office has come to the conclusion that they are better off getting rid of one players large contract in hopes to be able to sign several players at other positions of need in order to win a championship. Dumervil is a fan favorite, has been nothing but a team player and a has had a successful NFL career ever since he was drafted all those years ago. Financially -- is he worth it?

His contract was given to him when he had his best season ever as a 3-4 OLB. Depsite the premium on pass rushers in the NFL, is it really worth the Broncos to invest $12 million this year in him, as well as $8-10 million the next three years (not sure what the true total is with bonus) for a guy who has averaged ~ 9 sacks a year as a 4-3 DE?

The coaches and FO must obviously feel he is not worth his salary given his production. After some thought, I do hope we ignore Freeney, but he would probably come on a significant discount by virtue of past production, age and the fact he wants to play with Manning. I think Osi would be a good fit for the defense and would have success under JDR and would come at easily half the price than what we are paying Dumervil now. I think they also might get by with Ayers and Jackson in a rotation. I know JDR raved about Ayers when he had the opportunity to coach him at the Senior Bowl. It will give the FO a good idea if he is a guy worth extending beyond his final year of his rookie contract.

Coupled in with financials, this is about asset allocation. The Broncos know that over the next two off-seasons, several young and rising stars on their roster will be due significant pay raises, they include:
  • Von Miller
  • Demaryius Thomas
  • Eric Decker (FA after this year)
  • Zane Beadles (FA after this year)
  • Chris Harris
  • Wesley Woodyard (FA after this year)
  • Ryan Clady (FA, if he is extended beyond his Franchise Tag)

I wouldn't want to see any of these guys go to another team. This also doesn't include guys like Orlando Franklin and others who have two years remaining on their rookie deals. One or two years left remaing makes up the majority of players on the Broncos roster. Axing Dumervil is part of a process (IMHO) that will give us flexibility in the cap in the long run and dishing him out now will allow the Broncos Brass to set up parameters for new contracts that will have to be given sooner than later.

I assume that Manning/Bailey will be off the books in a couple of more seasons as well. Champ has two years left on his contract and it is known he won't be getting 9 million a year if he decides to give it a last ride past that. At some point in time, I believe Manning will retire (probably in two seasons) or have to be approached about re-structure.

Moving on from Dumervil gets rid of our second largest contract and frees up space for what we need to keep at home for the future, as well as bring in to win now. It is sad to see us cut a guy of his caliber outright, but **** -- we really don't have a choice, now do we? If we want to stay competitive for the long-haul, we need to take care of guys who have a bright future ahead of them.

If getting rid of Dumervil means we can bring in a guy like Osi, as well as being able to dish for Steven Jackson, Reggie Bush, Sean Smith, etc. -- I am all for it. It's quite possible we can get a 2-for-1 or perhaps 3-for-1 on players coming to this roster for what we would be spending on Dumervil alone. I think that is how the FO sees it and I can't blame them. Dumervil, Williams, Mays and likely a few others will be gone and allow us to really make an impact moving forward.
Way too much rational thought for this thread. I like Doom too. I think he's an excellent speed rusher off of the edge. My guess is he'll continue to be a 8-10 sack guy in a 4-3 and quite possibly a 12 + sack guy when he lands with a 3-4 team. I think his production loss will be felt, but can be somewhat offset by a rotation of guys like Ayers, Malik Jackson, a FA acquisition (Osi) and even utilizing Wolfe as an outside edge pass-rusher. It's better than being in Jets cap hell in a couple of years when we have to sign Von, DT, Decker etc.

Honestly, I'd even be OK if down the line we lose a Decker, or a Woodyard, because the nature of the modern NFL dictates that you will lose some players. You simply can't have an 80's 49ers Dynasty in the salary cap era.

People have to realize that this is about the future of the franchise. You have to lock up your top 2-3 marque players. Unfortunately, Doom isn't a top 2-3 marque player for the Denver Broncos any longer. Doesn't mean he sucks, doesn't mean the team couldn't use him, but if we want to keep Von Miller as a Denver Bronco beyond his rookie contract, Elway will have to make him the highest paid front seven player in the league, period.

If we want to lock up Clady to a long term contract, he will be paid as a top 5 LT in the league.

Demaryius Thomas had a huge year. I think baring injury, he'll be better next season. Soon you will have to pay DT like a top 5 WR in the league.

It sucks, I wish they could find some way to trade him, but for the most part, league executives and GM's aren't stupid. They know Denver has next to no leverage to move Doom. They'll simply wait for him to get cut.

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Old 03-11-2013, 08:59 AM   #135
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Dumervil is a fan favorite, has been nothing but a team player and a has had a successful NFL career ever since he was drafted all those years ago. Financially -- is he worth it?
Yup, this is pretty much it. We all like Doom, he's a very good player, and we don't want to see him go. But he's not worth $12 million and the Broncos aren't willing to pay him that much. The Broncos want him to take a large pay cut, and he's understandably not willing to do so.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:04 AM   #136
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How come they aren't asking this guy to take a pay cut?

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Old 03-11-2013, 09:04 AM   #137
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Way too much rational thought for this thread. I like Doom too. I think he's an excellent speed rusher off of the edge. My guess is he'll continue to be a 8-10 sack guy in a 4-3 and quite possibly a 12 + sack guy when he lands with a 3-4 team. I think his production loss will be felt, but can be somewhat offset by a rotation of guys like Ayers, Malik Jackson, a FA acquisition (Osi) and even utilizing Wolfe as an outside edge pass-rusher. It's better than being in Jets cap hell in a couple of years when we have to sign Von, DT, Decker etc.

Honestly, I'd even be OK if down the line we lose a Decker, or a Woodyard, because the nature of the modern NFL dictates that you will lose some players. You simply can't have an 80's 49ers Dynasty in the salary cap era.

People have to realize that this is about the future of the franchise. You have to look up your top 2-3 marque players. Unfortunately, Doom isn't a top 2-3 marque player for the Denver Broncos any longer. Doesn't mean he sucks, doesn't mean the team couldn't use him, but if we want to keep Von Miller as a Denver Bronco beyond his rookie contract, Elway will have to make him the highest paid front seven player in the league, period.

If we want to lock up Clady to a long term contract, he will be paid as a top 5 LT in the league.

Demaryius Thomas had a huge year. I think baring injury, he'll be better next season. Soon you will have to pay DT like a top 5 WR in the league.

It sucks, I wish they could find some way to trade him, but for the most part, league executives and GM's aren't stupid. They know Denver has next to no leverage to move Doom. They'll simply wait for him to get cut.
So if we are thinking rationally and looking to win Super Bowls in the next 2 years, why doesn't PM restructure la Elway did and help the team out? That way when PM leaves in 2-3 we don't have to blow everything up and start from scratch, but most importantly, it allows us to retain our own developed talent, and allows us to upgrade at the spots that would make us a solid bet for the SB.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:06 AM   #138
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How come they aren't asking this guy to take a pay cut?

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I agree
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:08 AM   #139
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So if we are thinking rationally and looking to win Super Bowls in the next 2 years, why doesn't PM restructure la Elway did and help the team out? That way when PM leaves in 2-3 we don't have to blow everything up and start from scratch, but most importantly, it allows us to retain our own developed talent, and allows us to upgrade at the spots that would make us a solid bet for the SB.
Probably because he was just given a deal. I don't think it would look right to the team to ask him to take a paycut when he just balled out for us.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:08 AM   #140
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I'm not saying he will replace Doom's production but don't forget that Jason Hunter was supposedly tearing it up before he got injured in training camp last year.

For me the bottom line is between Hunter, Ayers, Wolfe, and someone else we sign we can get pretty good production...at much less than what Doom is making. Those guys are better against the run too.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:09 AM   #141
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How come they aren't asking this guy to take a pay cut?

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Because he still plays at an extraordinarily high level. Perhaps we will ask him? Doubt it tho.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:09 AM   #142
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How come they aren't asking this guy to take a pay cut?
Fair question. But I think the main reason is they feel that CB is already an overall area of need so aren't going to cut their best player at the position. In other words, Champ is more valuable to them than Doom in their equation.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:09 AM   #143
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I think the front office has come to the conclusion that they are better off getting rid of one players large contract in hopes to be able to sign several players at other positions of need in order to win a championship. Dumervil is a fan favorite, has been nothing but a team player and a has had a successful NFL career ever since he was drafted all those years ago. Financially -- is he worth it?

His contract was given to him when he had his best season ever as a 3-4 OLB. Depsite the premium on pass rushers in the NFL, is it really worth the Broncos to invest $12 million this year in him, as well as $8-10 million the next three years (not sure what the true total is with bonus) for a guy who has averaged ~ 9 sacks a year as a 4-3 DE?

The coaches and FO must obviously feel he is not worth his salary given his production. After some thought, I do hope we ignore Freeney, but he would probably come on a significant discount by virtue of past production, age and the fact he wants to play with Manning. I think Osi would be a good fit for the defense and would have success under JDR and would come at easily half the price than what we are paying Dumervil now. I think they also might get by with Ayers and Jackson in a rotation. I know JDR raved about Ayers when he had the opportunity to coach him at the Senior Bowl. It will give the FO a good idea if he is a guy worth extending beyond his final year of his rookie contract.

Coupled in with financials, this is about asset allocation. The Broncos know that over the next two off-seasons, several young and rising stars on their roster will be due significant pay raises, they include:
  • Von Miller
  • Demaryius Thomas
  • Eric Decker (FA after this year)
  • Zane Beadles (FA after this year)
  • Chris Harris
  • Wesley Woodyard (FA after this year)
  • Ryan Clady (FA, if he is extended beyond his Franchise Tag)

I wouldn't want to see any of these guys go to another team. This also doesn't include guys like Orlando Franklin and others who have two years remaining on their rookie deals. One or two years left remaing makes up the majority of players on the Broncos roster. Axing Dumervil is part of a process (IMHO) that will give us flexibility in the cap in the long run and dishing him out now will allow the Broncos Brass to set up parameters for new contracts that will have to be given sooner than later.

I assume that Manning/Bailey will be off the books in a couple of more seasons as well. Champ has two years left on his contract and it is known he won't be getting 9 million a year if he decides to give it a last ride past that. At some point in time, I believe Manning will retire (probably in two seasons) or have to be approached about re-structure.

Moving on from Dumervil gets rid of our second largest contract and frees up space for what we need to keep at home for the future, as well as bring in to win now. It is sad to see us cut a guy of his caliber outright, but **** -- we really don't have a choice, now do we? If we want to stay competitive for the long-haul, we need to take care of guys who have a bright future ahead of them.

If getting rid of Dumervil means we can bring in a guy like Osi, as well as being able to dish for Steven Jackson, Reggie Bush, Sean Smith, etc. -- I am all for it. It's quite possible we can get a 2-for-1 or perhaps 3-for-1 on players coming to this roster for what we would be spending on Dumervil alone. I think that is how the FO sees it and I can't blame them. Dumervil, Williams, Mays and likely a few others will be gone and allow us to really make an impact moving forward.
I think you are right about some of these things, but there are other factors to consider. Clearly next year is going to be quite huge when it comes to free agents, Clady, Decker, Beadles and Woodyard all played very well this year and could command big contracts.

On the flip side of that however you have Champ Bailey set to make 9 million in 2 years, Mays set to make 4 million, Mcgahee set to make 2 million - that alone represents what I expect to be 15 million in cap savings by cutting those 3 players. 15 million will be enough to pay Beadles, Woodyard and Decker I believe. Clady will continue having a cap hit of roughly what he has this season under the franchise tag. In 2 years when Von Miller, Thomas and whoever is tagged next year will need a new deal there is a real probability that Peyton Manning and his 20 million will come off the books, which would effectively free up the space we need. Even though Manning has 4 years left nominally, I do not believe he will play out all 4.

Chris Harris will be RFA, so he will be cheap for another season.

What will be really interesting next season is the cap dynamics, a lot of teams this year are struggling to get under the cap and only a few teams have enough cap room to really throw around big deals. Next season the cap will most likely stay almost entirely unchanged, but many contracts will escalate and we will see very few teams handing out big contracts, but still a significant number of salary cuts. I do think we will see a lot of tiering in terms of free agency with a few highly coveted players getting big contracts, but a very competitive buyers market when it comes to veteran starters below the pro-bowl level. This could lead to players taking less money in exchange for security of staying where they are and may help out resigning free agents.

Why would we want to bring in Osi? He has started 8 games over the last 2 seasons combined and has 8 sacks to show for it, he has only 3 seasons with double digit sacks and one of those came off the back of a 6 sack game against a chump, he is not in Dumervils class as a pass rusher and is no better as a run defender - this is a pure downgrade. Reggie Bush is Tatum Bell who can catch the ball, building a run game around him is a horrible idea as both Miami and New Orleans discovered.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:12 AM   #144
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Probably because he was just given a deal. I don't think it would look right to the team to ask him to take a paycut when he just balled out for us.
Didn't John say this off season that if the Team needed money he knew he could go over to PM and work something out?
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:16 AM   #145
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So if we are thinking rationally and looking to win Super Bowls in the next 2 years, why doesn't PM restructure la Elway did and help the team out? That way when PM leaves in 2-3 we don't have to blow everything up and start from scratch, but most importantly, it allows us to retain our own developed talent, and allows us to upgrade at the spots that would make us a solid bet for the SB.
I can't speak for Peyton Manning, but my guess is for two reasons.

1.) He just signed the contract with Denver
2.) He doesn't have the same type of connection with the Denver Bronco franchise that John Elway did/does. He's a mercenary. Love the guy in the orange and blue, but he's a hired gun. My guess is if we're close, but come up short in 2014, and if he returns for a 3rd season, he'll restructure at that time.

As far as developing talent for the post PM era, no player is more important than Von Miller. He will be the highest paid player in the league. Either by us or somebody else.

The second most important Post-Manning era move would be to surround Brock, or whomever the QB is with a top 5 LT (Clady), a playmaking WR (Thomas) and a decent possession guy (Decker.)

Doom is a 3-4 speed rushing specialist, who's somewhat of a liability in run support. Again, a great weapon to have on the team, but not as important as the players listed above.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:18 AM   #146
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Because he still plays at an extraordinarily high level. Perhaps we will ask him? Doubt it tho.
Well sure, but like Doom, he came up very, very small in a big game.
10+ Million deals are for big time players and we all know big time players make big time plays in big time games.

Champ got toasted.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:19 AM   #147
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NFL contracts are pretty much useless.


Denver signed ED to this counteract…and after an 11 sack, 6 FF season…Denver wants him to take a pay cut?


I don't get the NFL, and why the players association lets this stuff go on.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:19 AM   #148
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ok... can someone confirm. In the denver broncos facebook page under the Bruton news, people are just commenting that Doom has agreed to take a paycut. Can someone confirm?
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:21 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razorwire77 View Post
I can't speak for Peyton Manning, but my guess is for two reasons.

1.) He just signed the contract with Denver
2.) He doesn't have the same type of connection with the Denver Bronco franchise that John Elway did/does. He's a mercenary. Love the guy in the orange and blue, but he's a hired gun. My guess is if we're close, but come up short in 2014, and if he returns for a 3rd season, he'll restructure at that time.

As far as developing talent for the post PM era, no player is more important than Von Miller. He will be the highest paid player in the league. Either by us or somebody else.

The second most important Post-Manning era move would be to surround Brock, or whomever the QB is with a top 5 LT (Clady), a playmaking WR (Thomas) and a decent possession guy (Decker.)

Doom is a 3-4 speed rushing specialist, who's somewhat of a liability in run support. Again, a great weapon to have on the team, but not as important as the players listed above.
Have to agree here.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:22 AM   #150
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I would rather have Israel Idonije then Osi, depending on price.
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