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Old 03-08-2013, 01:06 PM   #51
houghtam
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Which is synonymous. 5 or 10 or 100 'experts' locked in a room planning things will never accomplish what the free market does. It ties into how people think humanity is getting smarter. It's not. In many ways we're less intelligent. We're just able to collectivize ideas like never before.

And that approach applies to our markets more than almost anything else (especially in an information age). It's not about picking the right experts to 'fix' things. It's about relying on 'experts' (in a control context) as rarely as possible.
Collectivizing ideas is intelligence.
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Old 03-08-2013, 02:06 PM   #52
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gaffe's misanthropy and Messiah complex are on proud display here.

He hates all who disagree, because he's got it Right - those who think he's full of **** are not just wrong, but evil. How dare they contradict He Who Knows It All? "**** 'em" is gaffe's mantra.

Too bad we all know he's an idiot that couldn't find his own ass with both hands.
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Old 03-09-2013, 10:49 AM   #53
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The distribution of the stock market's largesse has been perhaps the most un-egalitarian aspect of American economics for years. A full 50 percent of all capital gains go not to the richest 1 percent of Americans, but to the richest 0.1 percent, according to The Washington Post.

But the stock market's persistent upward climb since the spring of 2009 has revealed another massive disparity: the multinational corporate machinery that generates stock gains has become unmoored from the economic reality in which the vast majority of Americans live and die.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2839862.html
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:01 AM   #54
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Most Americans depend on wages and salaries for their income, which is subject to a graduated tax so the big earners pay higher percentages. The capital gains tax turns that idea on its head, capping the rate at 15 percent for long-term investments. As a result, anyone making more than $34,500 a year in wages and salary is taxed at a higher rate than a billionaire is taxed on untold millions in capital gains.

While it’s true that many middle-class Americans own stocks or bonds, they tend to stash them in tax-sheltered retirement accounts, where the capital gains rate does not apply. By contrast, the richest Americans reap huge benefits. Over the past 20 years, more than 80 percent of the capital gains income realized in the United States has gone to 5 percent of the people; about half of all the capital gains have gone to the wealthiest 0.1 percent.

“The way you get rich in this world is not by working hard,” said Marty Sullivan, an economist and a contributing editor to Tax Analysts. “It’s by owning large amounts of assets and having those things appreciate in value.”

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2...ield-tax-rates



The 400 richest taxpayers in 2008 counted 60 percent of their income in the form of capital gains and 8 percent from salary and wages. The rest of the country reported 5 percent in capital gains and 72 percent in salary.

The result, Hacker says, is that the lobbying winds up being lopsided, too.

“The amount of lobbying that takes place on tax policy from the deep-pocketed interests that have the most at stake is enormous,” Hacker said. “There’s very little representation on the other side.”

“Don’t forget,” he added, “that members of Congress themselves, particularly senators, are well off and they’re more likely to be sympathetic to the argument for low capital gains.”

Last edited by Rohirrim; 03-09-2013 at 11:10 AM..
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:24 AM   #55
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Greenspan is the one who sold the country on lowering capital gains rates. Now it's become part of Republican theology. Cantor, Gingrich and Huntsman believe the tax on capital gains should be zero. Why? Because those at the top of the economic pyramid, you know, the ones who are raking in the capital gains, are the "job creators."

Well, they've gotten the biggest tax breaks in history over the last thirty years and are rolling in wealth so it's time for the American people to ask, "Where are the jobs?"
Suckers!

You know what jobs have been created because of the massive capital gains cuts over the last thirty years? Jobs in the financial industry for those who specialize in taking other types of income and turning it into capital gains.
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Old 03-09-2013, 01:34 PM   #56
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Greenspan is the one who sold the country on lowering capital gains rates. Now it's become part of Republican theology. Cantor, Gingrich and Huntsman believe the tax on capital gains should be zero. Why? Because those at the top of the economic pyramid, you know, the ones who are raking in the capital gains, are the "job creators."

Well, they've gotten the biggest tax breaks in history over the last thirty years and are rolling in wealth so it's time for the American people to ask, "Where are the jobs?"
Suckers!

You know what jobs have been created because of the massive capital gains cuts over the last thirty years? Jobs in the financial industry for those who specialize in taking other types of income and turning it into capital gains.
It's the core stupidity of "supply side" economics. Jobs are not created by people that have capital. Jobs are created by demand. People with capital aren't going to just create jobs for the hell of it. They want an ROI.

No Demand = No ROI.
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Old 03-09-2013, 01:46 PM   #57
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It's the core stupidity of "supply side" economics. Jobs are not created by people that have capital. Jobs are created by demand. People with capital aren't going to just create jobs for the hell of it. They want an ROI.

No Demand = No ROI.
Don't forget to add in the mantra of "capital gains taxes kill investments" which not only has never been proven to be true, also doesn't follow a logical argument.

I was going to invest this $50,000 and get a 10% ROI for a total of $55,000, but since the tax rate of 15% is so high, I'm only going to end up with $54, 250, WOOOOOOE IS MEEEEEEE I'll just put it in a savings account instead and get 1.5% instead if I'm lucky.

That's like the idiots who said they were going to cut their salary to $199,999 to avoid the higher tax rates for those making $200k and over...a complete and total lack of understanding of reality.
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:38 PM   #58
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What we are left with is a corporatist and congressional system linked by lobbyists. It reminds me of two bucks whose horns are irreparably locked together. They know it will lead to both their deaths, but neither one can let go. This economic system is going to destroy our country if we don't change it.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:03 PM   #59
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This guy figured out a way to make things more even!

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/11...ption-charges/
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Old 03-12-2013, 07:48 AM   #60
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Yeah, that's pertinent.
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Old 03-12-2013, 07:58 AM   #61
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It's the core stupidity of "supply side" economics. Jobs are not created by people that have capital. Jobs are created by demand. People with capital aren't going to just create jobs for the hell of it. They want an ROI.

No Demand = No ROI.
You're only looking at half the equation.

Lots of Demand + Little Supply = Inflation. Supply side never said that demand wasn't important. Only that if there's too much demand already, stoking more of it does little good. Supply siders believe it's just as important to fill demand as it is to create it.
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:38 AM   #62
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It's the core stupidity of "supply side" economics. Jobs are not created by people that have capital. Jobs are created by demand. People with capital aren't going to just create jobs for the hell of it. They want an ROI.

No Demand = No ROI.
And populations with falling incomes in an environment of rising prices means no demand.

That Ryan would think this is the proper environment to launch austerity measures just shows what an out-of-touch ideologically rigid nincompoop he is.

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Old 03-12-2013, 10:30 AM   #63
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Don't forget to add in the mantra of "capital gains taxes kill investments" which not only has never been proven to be true, also doesn't follow a logical argument.
So what you are saying is that money that could be invested in the U.S. economy but is parked in the Cayman Islands to avoid capital gains is an unproven myth?
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:47 AM   #64
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It's pure hilarity reading the writings of you unemployed or under employed leftist sociopaths bent on marching to the beat of your politically correct drummer boy, the CIA operative (So I read on the Mane) President Obama....the money that is being invested in mutual funds, etc has ALREADY BEEN TAXED ONCE; WHEN IT WAS INITIALLY EARNED AND PUT INTO A FUND.You know why our middle class is dying?, because on average, Asian workers have higher IQ's and work for pennies on the dollar big greedy corporations know this and exploit our political process through the DC lobby;.....meanwhile in America, our "middle class", the sons and grandsons of those who used to work in the automotive plants and steel factories is morphing into this....
Our current culture is one of self destruction; embracing poverty(baby mama, teen mom, etc) and long shots (rappers, pro athletes) through the expression of people with these traits on TV etc......
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Old 03-12-2013, 06:44 PM   #65
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It's pure hilarity reading the writings of you unemployed or under employed leftist sociopaths bent on marching to the beat of your politically correct drummer boy, the CIA operative (So I read on the Mane) President Obama....the money that is being invested in mutual funds, etc has ALREADY BEEN TAXED ONCE; WHEN IT WAS INITIALLY EARNED AND PUT INTO A FUND.You know why our middle class is dying?, because on average, Asian workers have higher IQ's and work for pennies on the dollar big greedy corporations know this and exploit our political process through the DC lobby;.....meanwhile in America, our "middle class", the sons and grandsons of those who used to work in the automotive plants and steel factories is morphing into this....
Our current culture is one of self destruction; embracing poverty(baby mama, teen mom, etc) and long shots (rappers, pro athletes) through the expression of people with these traits on TV etc......
Oh look, another idjit who doesn't understand how taxes work.
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:43 AM   #66
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Oh look, another idjit who doesn't understand how taxes work.
I likely pay more in QUARTERLY taxes than you and your entire family does in a YEAR......
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:46 AM   #67
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Which is synonymous. 5 or 10 or 100 'experts' locked in a room planning things will never accomplish what the free market does. It ties into how people think humanity is getting smarter. It's not. In many ways we're less intelligent. We're just able to collectivize ideas like never before.

And that approach applies to our markets more than almost anything else (especially in an information age). It's not about picking the right experts to 'fix' things. It's about relying on 'experts' (in a control context) as rarely as possible.
Unfortunately we are relying on only a few experts TOO OFTEN which has created this house of cards that we currently call our economy.....
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:12 AM   #68
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I likely pay more in QUARTERLY taxes than you and your entire family does in a YEAR......
Nice red herring. You clearly don't understand how cap gains taxes are assessed.
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Old 03-22-2013, 07:52 AM   #69
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You mean re-redistributing. We just want it back to where it was before Reagan redistributed it. Funny how that word somehow has come to mean only one thing and not both.
Considering this isn't a one-man dictatorship, you have quite a steep hill to climb to prove that one.
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Old 03-22-2013, 07:54 AM   #70
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Considering this isn't a one-man dictatorship, you have quite a steep hill to climb to prove that one.
Really? That's not what the hysterical Right has been saying about Obama.
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Old 03-22-2013, 07:59 AM   #71
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At least one critical response has been written about this video.

As far as wages go, anyone for amnesty or "a path to citizenship" which is just another form of amnesty has no business opening their traps about the stagnant/declining wages of the American working class. The flood of cheap illegal labor into the US has undercut American working class wages. The surplus supply has caused the lowering of the price of labor, as normally happens in the case of extra supplies of anything in a market. Those who profit off of this obviously want amnesty/path to citizenship for obvious reasons.

Back in the 1950s and 60s a working man with a family could support the family and buy a modest home and used car, even without a college education and with the wife staying home with children. That can't be said now. There are a number of factors to this, of course, but it cannot be denied that millions of illegal laborers flooding the market isn't a big problem.
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:05 AM   #72
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You know why our middle class is dying?, because on average, Asian workers have higher IQ's and work for pennies on the dollar big greedy corporations know this and exploit our political process through the DC lobby;.....meanwhile in America, our "middle class", the sons and grandsons of those who used to work in the automotive plants and steel factories is morphing into this....
Our current culture is one of self destruction; embracing poverty(baby mama, teen mom, etc) and long shots (rappers, pro athletes) through the expression of people with these traits on TV etc......
And this --- shipping good manufacturing jobs overseas, leaving places like Detroit a wasteland. Things invented and developed here are manufactured in places like China which has a seemingly endless supply of near-slave sweat shop labor. Those products produced cheaply are then sent back here marked up in price.

And yes also, American social culture is basically one of self-destruction. Traditional culture remains but it's being marginalized and demonized.
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:08 AM   #73
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Really? That's not what the hysterical Right has been saying about Obama.
Yes - one must be "hysterical Right" to note abuses of power by Obama. Funny, considering every left-wing publication out there has been howling about him for several years over his foreign policy.

Pass the drone to the homie on your left.
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:21 AM   #74
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Some interesting analysis...

What happened to wages?
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:26 AM   #75
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There has never been a "traditional" culture in America.
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